Sellers get a defect if they issue refund for small shipping overcharge.

[johnfduda]

This is a horrible way for eBay to encourage crooked, underhanded business practices.

Myself I quit giving a refund of $1.38 in shipping overcharges a couple years ago. But to think that after all this time they still do this. How many sellers have been given a vacation where this kind of a defect was the only defect?. Or, at the least, a refund of thirty nine cents was the tipping point?

[johnfduda]

I'm thinking there's a valid reason for eBay to not want these small refunds. Suppose the credit card company charges a fee to process the refund. Say they charge $1 and then eBay looses their fee. For my ficticious $1.38 refund they loose 13% or 18 cents. So because you refunded $1.38 they loose a $1.18. So they see $2.56 leaving the site.

Someone out there who has a credit card account ( for sellers ) let me know if there is a fee; or not.

But what a horrible way to get sellers to act the way you want them to. Maybe a letter explaining the processing fee, if there is one, would be more appropriate. Maybe making sure the overcharges aren't their problem. Or reducing the number that is their problem.

[Anonymous]

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@*eponymous* wrote:

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@bubbleman2010 wrote:

A partial refund issued directly through PayPal without any explanation via eBay Messages may lead to a defect being recorded on eBay. Additional details can be found within the Knowledge Base content referenced within this thread.

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...fvf credit is NOT automatic if s/h is more than 20% of the item price, according to Trinton @Anonymous and that info should, OF COURSE, be included in the "KNOWLEDGE BASE" that sellers are now responsible for knowing, keeping up with, as well as the written policies, the unwritten policies, and the "invisible defects" and seller updates, blog posts, unannounced "changes" to all, etc.

OMGee

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Hi @*eponymous*, just wanted to clarify that the 20% amount we have discussed is not related to the shipping and handling for an item. What I have indicated is that as long as a refund is at least 80% of the total amount paid for that item and it's shipping and handling, then a pro-rated Final Value Fee credit will happen automatically. This would specifically be through a Return Request as a partial refund is not an option through a Cancel Transaction or an Item Not Received request. A partial refund issued outside of a Return Request for some sort of post-payment discount would need to be accompanied with messaging on eBay to explain why and a Final Value Fee would need to be manually reviewed at this time. I've submitted a request for an automated process to be implemented so you can more easily help your buyers in these kinds of situations.

Additionally, the Knowledge Base is merely meant to supplement the information on the eBay site within our announcements, Seller Center, Help Pages and the Help & Contact flow. As I stated in the previous thread that was recently locked, I've submitted for updates to be made to the resources mentioned previously. I want to add one final point of clarification that a defect has been a potential result of a refund through PayPal since the 2015 Fall Seller Update that I shared on the other thread. 

[johnfduda]

trinton@ebay

I didn't understand your post last night and a nights sleep didn't help. How many items sell where the shipping is 80% of the total of final sale price plus shipping and handling. A couple maybe. I think it's occured to me that if I list...blank... it might not sell for enough to pay the FVF. Why do you have a policy that only works for a one off.

And do I get a hidden defect for making my customer satisfied, want to buy from me again. And maybe more important can you post a list of what other actions deserve a HIDDEN defect. Are there hidden per-fects. How do they interact.

[sharingtheland]

I want to add one final point of clarification that a defect has been a potential result of a refund through PayPal since the 2015 Fall Seller Update that I shared on the other thread. 

You didn't put "partial" in front of refund.

We've known about a defect resulting from a full refund issued through paypal since, oh, Fall, 2015.  This partial stuff is what has everyone up in arms.

Directly from the 2015 Fall Seller Update:

Any transaction cancelled through eBay or refunded through PayPal because the seller no longer has the item or chooses not to ship the item will count in the defect rate as a seller-cancelled transaction. Transactions that are cancelled because the buyer no longer wants the item are not counted in the defect rate.

Why did ebay decide, 2 years later and without telling anyone, that a courtesy partial refund of $2 for overpayment of shipping is the same as "seller no longer has the item or chooses not to ship the item?"  It's not a canceled transaction.

I'm not trying to be obtuse or argumentative here.  

[ted_200]

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@sharingtheland wrote:

I want to add one final point of clarification that a defect has been a potential result of a refund through PayPal since the 2015 Fall Seller Update that I shared on the other thread. 

You didn't put "partial" in front of refund.

We've known about a defect resulting from a full refund issued through paypal since, oh, Fall, 2015.  This partial stuff is what has everyone up in arms.

Directly from the 2015 Fall Seller Update:

Any transaction cancelled through eBay or refunded through PayPal because the seller no longer has the item or chooses not to ship the item will count in the defect rate as a seller-cancelled transaction. Transactions that are cancelled because the buyer no longer wants the item are not counted in the defect rate.

Why did ebay decide, 2 years later and without telling anyone, that a courtesy partial refund of $2 for overpayment of shipping is the same as "seller no longer has the item or chooses not to ship the item?"  It's not a canceled transaction.

I'm not trying to be obtuse or argumentative here.  

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That is absolutely correct.  It was never intended to, and did not, cover a $1.38 shipping charge refund. 

The item was shipped, so this has nothing to do with the 2015 Fall Seller Update. 

[dtexley3]

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@ted_200 wrote:

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@sharingtheland wrote:

Directly from the 2015 Fall Seller Update:

Any transaction cancelled through eBay or refunded through PayPal because the seller no longer has the item or chooses not to ship the item will count in the defect rate as a seller-cancelled transaction. Transactions that are cancelled because the buyer no longer wants the item are not counted in the defect rate.

Why did ebay decide, 2 years later and without telling anyone, that a courtesy partial refund of $2 for overpayment of shipping is the same as "seller no longer has the item or chooses not to ship the item?"  It's not a canceled transaction.

I'm not trying to be obtuse or argumentative here.  

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That is absolutely correct.  It was never intended to, and did not, cover a $1.38 shipping charge refund. 

The item was shipped, so this has nothing to do with the 2015 Fall Seller Update. 

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Except that eBay is using this language to support their recent statements that defects may be given if you give a shipping refund in paypal without first sending the member a message via eBay.

[goodluckselling]

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@sharingtheland wrote:

I want to add one final point of clarification that a defect has been a potential result of a refund through PayPal since the 2015 Fall Seller Update that I shared on the other thread. 

You didn't put "partial" in front of refund.

We've known about a defect resulting from a full refund issued through paypal since, oh, Fall, 2015.  This partial stuff is what has everyone up in arms.

Directly from the 2015 Fall Seller Update:

Any transaction cancelled through eBay or refunded through PayPal because the seller no longer has the item or chooses not to ship the item will count in the defect rate as a seller-cancelled transaction. Transactions that are cancelled because the buyer no longer wants the item are not counted in the defect rate.

Why did ebay decide, 2 years later and without telling anyone, that a courtesy partial refund of $2 for overpayment of shipping is the same as "seller no longer has the item or chooses not to ship the item?"  It's not a canceled transaction.

I'm not trying to be obtuse or argumentative here.  

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I had the exact same post written but decided not to send it.  I am glad you did though.

Good Luck Selling!

[ramonv-majorleaguepins]

I give shipping refunds all the time, and never give a thought to defects.

[ramonv-majorleaguepins]

If I have any, they must be invisible. Sales with defects: 1 of 643 transactions. (I canceled a sale)

[southern*sweet*tea]

I keep some cash on hand just for this reason. Shipping overpayments get paid back via an envelope with cash in a buyer's package, along with a note of explanation (I refund any calculated shipping overage that's more than $1).  Most people don't notice Paypal refunds, everyone notices cash in their package. The last shipping refund I did through Ebay/Paypal was three or four years ago - I had to refund $20 back to a Canadian customer for a multi-item shipment.

[goodluckselling]

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@southern*sweet*tea wrote:

I keep some cash on hand just for this reason. Shipping overpayments get paid back via an envelope with cash in a buyer's package, along with a note of explanation (I refund any calculated shipping overage that's more than $1).  Most people don't notice Paypal refunds, everyone notices cash in their package. The last shipping refund I did through Ebay/Paypal was three or four years ago - I had to refund $20 back to a Canadian customer for a multi-item shipment.

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eBay apparently does not want us to do refunds at all unless it is conducted through the resolution center, which is fine and many of us will not do that for a small amount.  I will just let the buyer contact me now about any kind of overcharge for shipping. 

After all I have all my shipping setting correct and if eBay wants to make it so buyers have to buy one item at a time, so be it, I will still ship all orders to the same address in the same package and I have several everyday like this.

The missing part to this is why is eBay taking this stance?  I content that it is because next year eBay will be allowed by way of the agreement with payapl at time of the split that allows them to explore more payment options in July 2018 to go along with paypal options. 

It is only a guess by me that this is pretty clear writing on the wall that eBay is preparing us now for the 2018 Spring seller update that will more than likely

1. be a new eBay owned payment processor that does not want to do all the extra work for these partial refunds. 
2. Perhaps they will also incur fees from there end for each refund? 
3. Maybe eBay is helping sellers so they do not incur extra fees when they begin the new payment options?

Who knows for sure, but I am fairly certain this is connected to the changes that are certain to happen next summer.

__________________

https://www.investors.com/news/technology/heres-why-paypals-ties-to-former-parent-ebay-bear-watching...

"PayPal's preferential relationship with eBay is scheduled to end in 2020, with eBay able to experiment with new payment structure from 2018. We think it is probably safe to assume that there will be some (earnings) drag as the end of that agreement approaches," Faucette said in a note to clients. "However, for now, our assumption is that any changes would serve to slow pricing and margin expansion rather than causing measurable negative impact. However, a worse case than we currently build in is certainly a possibility and a key source of investor concern."

____________________________

The link above is about the investment in Paypal today and in the future but it opens some info I did not know or remember from the 2015 split. 

Good Luck Selling!

[ramonv-majorleaguepins]

But if you refund through Paypal, you get part of your paypal fee back. And I never keep cash on hand.

[nowthatsjustducky]

Considering the effort I put into packaging, and the packaging materials resources that get used up, I never have anything left from the S&H charged to warrant any sort of refund; aka there is never an overage even when the actual postage is less than what the buyer paid.

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@ramonv wrote:
But if you refund through Paypal, you get part of your paypal fee back. And I never keep cash on hand.

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Not a big deal for me because I rarely have to refund, I have a loss fund, and I always have cash on hand. Cash is king and all that good stuff.

But yeah, I can see how it would be a problem for sellers who do have to do a lot of partials because of combined shipping. 

It's just another option for sellers to consider, if it would work for them.

[berserkerplanet]

Another drawback is that a significant cash refund is off the radar in the event the transaction goes south - a SNAD, INR, or return would result in a full refund and loss of that cash.

A non-issue from me, as I don't ever have problems with my buyers, but had to play devil's advocate.