Sellers Beware - Seller protections not worth the paper it's printed on

[carbonart0]

I've had an account in good standing with Ebay since 2004 - pay pal too.  For some reason, Ebay has adjusted this date on my profile to July of 2008?  Nevertheless, I have had the same account I am using now since February of 2004. 

I sold an item in November and it was lost in the mail.  Due to suspicious circumstances surrounding the purchase, it ended up taking more than 30 days for the buyer to file an Item Not Delivered Claim and this was largely due to Ebay not responding to my inquiries surrounding the purchase - I had to call Ebay back again for a response to my questions because they never responded after I called them the first time. 

Previously, Ebay had told me that they would refund the buyer because I was protected under their seller protection policies.  But ultimately Ebay denied the buyer a refund because more than 30 days had passed since the transaction date.

A week or so later, the buyer filed a charge back via Pay Pal and through his CC company (who can blame him?).  So, I called Ebay and told them again that the only reason more than 30 days had passed since the transaction date (the reason Ebay denied the buyer a refund) was because Ebay had not responded to my questions about the suspicious circumstances surrounding the purchase.  Ebay then agreed to send the buyer a refund and they did so through my Pay Pal account. 

There the money sat - withheld by pay pal for over 2 weeks because pay pal was still processing the buyer's charge back from his cc company.  Then suddenly pay pal debits my account for the charge back cost (the purchase cost for the item) and then CANCELS the Ebay refund that was sitting there for weeks - waiting to be released to the buyer.

I ended up spending several hours on the phone to both Ebay and Pay Pal and I got the run-around from both companies over several phone calls for literally several hours non stop.  Finally at the end of the day, one of Ebay's supervisors agreed to revue the case and find out why my refund was cancelled - and presumably to credit the refund money back to my pay pal account.  He told me that Ebay would call me back today - Friday.  Well, Friday has come and is now almost gone, and I am still looking at a negative balance in my Pay Pal account - for the transaction purchase price of the item - which for all I know, the buyer actually received as often times, the USPS does not scan every phase in the delivery of a package - including the delivered scan.

This is Ebay service now!  This is how Ebay treats sellers (their customers) who've been with Ebay for 15 or more years!  I was hoping to be able to report to this forum that Ebay did the right thing by finally sending that money to my pay pal account, but now all I can do at this point is warn other sellers!

I also believe that the problems sellers are having with Pay Pal now (when we didn't have problems before) are due to Pay Pal trying to help Ebay herd sellers into mismanaged payments.  I've been using Pay Pal for a very long time and I've never had a problem - not until after Ebay came out with mismanaged payments.

Sellers beware!  When things go wrong with an Ebay transaction, the sellers' prospects for a fair resolution are slim to none.

[carbonart0]

Me either...neither?

I've called and called and called.  Wasted a lot of my own time that nobody is going to pay me for either... we're talking about only $65 too - but it's also the item I lost as well...

[jame234]

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@carbonart0 wrote:

Ebay doesn't agree with your comments here.  They sent me a refund to issue to the buyer.  I've already said so now at least 3 times.

Ebay even labeled the refund with the buyer's account name.  It sat in my pay pal account for weeks.  2 different reps and then a supervisor all told me that I would be covered under seller protections and then the supervisor said she would issue the refund to my buyer - via my pay pal account.  And then she did - within minutes of our conversation. 

At the last minute, Ebay and Pay Pal worked together to screw another one of Ebay's customers over - ME.

Again, Sellers beware!  Even @mam98031  agrees not sell anything expensive on Ebay...  Think twice before selling anything - even if it's inexpensive, your time is not.  And time is what Ebay will take from you when a transaction goes wrong or when one of Ebay's scam buyers tries to screw you over...

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@carbonart0 , @mam98031  Mam's comments are correct. If there is no tracking showing delivered, the seller is responsible.  That is a fact.  All of Mam's comments are correct, they are according to eBay policy.  So your lack of courtesy is not appreciated here. You came here for help and you received the fact.  Probably, not what you wanted to hear.

[tyler@ebay]

Hi @carbonart0 - Typically, based on what you've explained here, while we would let a buyer open a not-received request, we would close it if asked to step in because it had been such a long time since the item sold. If they went through and opened a PayPal dispute after that, we wouldn't have say in what their decision was. 

I'm not seeing that any refund was sent through an eBay vehicle (no money was moved via the opened request, no credit was issued on your eBay billing account and there was no initiation of funds from us to you directly in PayPal) - can you let me know the date and amount that you saw the credit from us in your account? That will help me narrow things down. 

Thanks!

(also, double checked and looks like it was a CS teammate you spoke with named Tristan, not the Trinton here on the boards 😉)

[carbonart0]

I just pointed out that given the circumstances of the purchase of my item, Ebay clearly determined my case was on of the few exceptions.  Ebay sent the refund out of their pocket to my pay pal account and it was even labeled for my buyer...then it was cancelled weeks later (after sitting there withheld by Pay Pal).

I believe that Ebay decided to make my case an exception because of the suspicious circumstances surrounding the buyer's purchase.  I am in California, and the buyer is in Florida.  Orginally, I received some low ball offers from a buyer in Florida along with demands for free shipping.  I promptly declined and then put this buyer in my block bidder list.   

Within about a half hour, another buyer (allegedly another buyer) from Florida and less than 200 miles away from the first buyer, just buys the item.  I suspected that this was just the same buyer using a 2nd account to make the purchase - and after I blocked him.  IF so, then that is a fraudulent purchase and I believe that it's probably the reason that Ebay made my case (a lost package) an exception...although at first Ebay lied to me when they said they can't check the identity of both account owners or see  if they are connected in some way...but then when I called again, they admitted that they can check (of course they can check).  If the both accounts involved were owned by the same buyer, or were connected in some way, then I doubt that Ebay would just tell me about it....

[carbonart0]

Hi tyler@ebay   

If you reviewed my case, you'd see that Ebay did find in my favor because more than 30 days had passed.  But after the buyer then filed charge back claim (about a week later) I called Ebay and let them know that the buyer's claim with Ebay took longer than 30 days because I (the seller) was waiting to hear back from Ebay in regards to this case.  Ebay agreed and sent the buyer a refund via my pay pal account - This was again, AFTER Ebay denied the buyer's not received claim.

[carbonart0]

tyler@ebay 

The refund was sent Tyler.  Half of the reps and supervisors at ebay told me that they could no longer see  it either - and then the other half said that they did see that it was sent....  It was sent.

[carbonart0]

tyler@ebay 

I did not think to record the date of one of many conversations I had with Ebay on the phone regarding this case.  Perhaps it was November 4th?  In any case, the record of the refund in my Pay Pal account appears to have been completely erased - no list of cancelled refunds...  It was sent moments after the Ebay supervisor said she would send it.

[mam98031]

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@carbonart0 wrote:

tyler@ebay 

I did not think to record the date of one of many conversations I had with Ebay on the phone regarding this case.  Perhaps it was November 4th?  In any case, the record of the refund in my Pay Pal account appears to have been completely erased - no list of cancelled refunds...  It was sent moments after the Ebay supervisor said she would send it.

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I think that may solve the mystery.  I further think it was just an honest misunderstanding on your part.  Ebay has no need to send a seller a refund for the buyer.  If they want a buyer refunded, they simply would do it direct to the buyer.

To my knowledge Ebay has not ability to "erase" a PP record.  That seems to be to be an access to data in which Ebay just doesn't have authority for on another company's records.

tyler@ebay 

[3eyedfishcatcher]

What does when you joined eBay or the first time you posted in the community forums have anything to do with your issues with the buyer, eBay and PayPal. Stating when you joined is very redundant as any user can see that information on your profile. By including information that is not pertinent you are just distracting the reader from your real issue.

[carbonart0]

No actually, I was including what I thought was the accurate information about my account because the usual Ebay apologists like to go into posters' account details in hopes of pulling up information about them that will undermine the points they try to make on this forum.  They only do it for authors who post something negative about Ebay...not unlike what you're attempting to do here actually.

[tyler@ebay]

tyler@ebay 

The refund was sent Tyler.  Half of the reps and supervisors at ebay told me that they could no longer see  it either - and then the other half said that they did see that it was sent....  It was sent.

Hi @carbonart0 - it's possible that the teammate was referring to releasing the temporary hold that an Item not Received request would impose. It's possible that it would look like a refund in PayPal but wouldn't register as a payment from our end, which would be why some folks who look at your account aren't seeing a monetary transaction from us to you, and others are seeing the funds release history and interpreting it as a refund.

I'm happy to have the call reviewed with the teammate you spoke with initially, but everything that you've described being told after is keeping to eBay policy: a PayPal dispute is out of our purview and not something we can impact. Additionally, if there was no tracking (or no updated delivery/attempted delivery scan) we wouldn't have been able to provide protection if the request had been opened in the eMBG coverage window.

[carbonart0]

Thanks for reply tyler@ebay   I appreciate you doing what you can.

The supervisor I spoke too did send a refund as she said she would - not the release of a temporary hold.

I an powerless to hold Ebay to account for the refund that got cancelled.  If the records are erased, then I have no control over it.   One Ebay supervisor sent it, and another confirmed to me that it was sent but that it wasn't accepted by Pay Pal - Something about 3 attempts over a 30 period to get pay pal to accept the refund?

Anyway, these Ebay reps and supervisors don't give you their full names and they don't send you a record of what was discussed - so if they want to just screw you over - I guess they can.

[mam98031]

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@carbonart0 wrote:

No actually, I was including what I thought was the accurate information about my account because the usual Ebay apologists like to go into posters' account details in hopes of pulling up information about them that will undermine the points they try to make on this forum.  They only do it for authors who post something negative about Ebay...not unlike what you're attempting to do here actually.

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Other Ebay members have no ability to "go into posters' account details".  All of us can only see what can be publicly seen by any other member that looks.  

There are lots of members that post negative things on the threads.  The key is to stay within the community rules.  

[carbonart0]

Yes, the publically available information - what sellers are selling if they're selling anything and how much and when etc.  That's what they Ebay apoligists do as a first attempt to try and undermine an Ebay customer's concerns on this forum - rather than try to help them, they instead try to make them look as though they are the ones who are trying to scam other readers - but they're not of course.

I guess tyler@ebay  has decided to leave me up the creek without a paddle too.  There's no way to prove it  (short of an IRS audit) that Ebay sent a refund to my pay pal account that was later cancelled.  ]

Since Ebay never sent me a confirmation email about the refund they sent, then there's no way for me to appeal it and Ebay's scam is complete.

What else am I supposed to conclude here?  My bet is that my item was purchased by a scam buyer.  He used 2 accounts to obtain the item (and after I blocked his first account).  This makes his purchase fraudulent and thus even though the item was lost in mail (at least according the the USPS), this is why Ebay initially decided to issue the buyer a refund - because Ebay knew the item was purchased under fraudulent circumstances.  Then they just erased erased any record of the refund after it was cancelled out by Pay Pal - And just maybe they did this because they don't like what I've had to say on this forum?  In any case, it may also be true that the buyer actually received the item from the start as well - sometimes, the USPS forgets to scan upon arrival...or upon any of the various shipping phases....

[jame234]

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@carbonart0 wrote:

No actually, I was including what I thought was the accurate information about my account because the usual Ebay apologists like to go into posters' account details in hopes of pulling up information about them that will undermine the points they try to make on this forum.  They only do it for authors who post something negative about Ebay...not unlike what you're attempting to do here actually.

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You are incorrect.  The information I gave about you is available for anyone to see on your feedback profile.

No one here since we have told you we are not eBay employees, can access your file or account.

You continue to go around and around and the circle just gets bigger and bigger with your not understanding and refusal to accept facts. Your accusations have grown from the initial post.  At this point all you are doing is spamming the board because you accept no answers.  It would be best for you to call eBay and speak to them.  We can not provide you any further assistance.