eBay

micsett-99 · ‎04-21-2019

I've got to hand it to ebay, I really do. They are so "ever creative" with their schemes and scams to put their hands in sellers pockets..It really is disgraceful and sickening.

The newest SCAM (and make no mistake, this is a SCAM folks) is "Seller Metrics"...

If you aren't fully versed in this scheme yet, get acquainted with it quickly; because it has the capacity and potential to add THOUSANDS of dollars to your ebay invoice each month (depending on how much you sell, and your prices, etc)..

Basically the way this works now is this: eBay looks at your "Selling Category", and evaluates the "average" number of "returns" your "peers" are receiving for:

1) Item not as described

2) Item arrived damaged

3) Item is defective not working

4) Missing part or pieces

5) Wrong item sent

All of these "reasons" a buyer can completely arbitrarily select for their return? Fall under the "Item not as described" category of return.

There is of COURSE no validation on eBay's part to make sure these claims are even true at all (and I'll get to that in a moment). All the buyer needs to do is simply "open" the return selecting any of these reasons? And your seller metrics are impacted.

So, ebay then takes a tally of these returns among your "peers" of other sellers, and they set a very handy "percentage rate" of overall returns of this nature.

So in a specific category your "peers" maybe be performing at a 7.04% return rate lets say (or at least this is what ebay tells you).

You are then measured against your peers, and your return rate is Very High against their numbers? Well, of course ebay then has decided that they need to penalize you to the tune of an additional 4% on all your final value fees.

Also of course, you have ZERO way of validating their "returns data" in any way shape or form, and obviously it would behoove ebay to report the lowest percentage possible to you? Because they stand to profit tremendously, the lower that number is and the higher your "percentages are in comparison..

So there's part one of the scam, how its all laid out. But of course, it gets better!! It always does, doesn't it??

So ebay has also decided, to make sure they can bilk as many unsuspecting sellers out of as much cash as they can? That if you are NOT selling 400 items per 90 days? Well then, each of these returns stays on your "record" for a full 12 MONTHS..

Only if you are selling over 400 items or more very 90 days? Then they let them only count for 90 days (how nice of them)...

And heres ONLY one of the real kickers about this wonderful new scam..Did I say scam? I meant "Policy", sorry..

Once a buyer merely OPENS one of these returns? It automatically counts against you. It DOES NOT MATTER..I repeat IT DOES NOT MATTER:

1) If ebay closes the return in your favor (for whatever reason that may happen)

2) It is found that the buyer is a "scammer" who opened the return in any attempt to extort you as a seller, or for any other nefarious reason. EVEN IF you can prove this, in black and white? And ebay can CONFIRM that this was the case? They DO NOT care, the return stays on your metrics for 12 months

3) The buyer opens a return, making up a fake story about the item being defective, etc, in order to try to get you to give them a partial refund (EXTREMELY COMMON SCAM ON EBAY). Upon refusing to give the buyer a partial refund and asking for the item back to validate the buyers "claims"? The buyer disappears and never sends back the item. Making that a bogus return. Guess what? Because they OPENED THE RETURN? You get hit...End of story. Even with all EVIDENCE in black and white that the buyer was trying to pull a scam.

4) eBay closes the return because the buyer never sends the item back. You would think that would invalidate a "return", as NOTHING was EVER "returned"...But not under eBay's service metrics!! No sir..You're stuck with the return on your record

5) You can PROVE that you listed a defect the item had IN THE LISTING. TOOK PHOTOS OF THE DEFECT, AND MADE EVERYTHING CLEAR. The buyer refuses to read the listing to know what they are buying? Then makes a RETURN stating that the item was "Not as described" because it has the defect you listed clearly...Guess what?? Doesn't matter, YOU are hit with a defect Regardless of whether you can PROVE once again, that you did the right thing..

Now, if that wasn't bad enough in and of itself? They've also made it: IMPOSSIBLE TO APPEAL THESE DEFECTS..

Here's a perfect example of this SCAM in operation, and what I just went through personally a few days ago:

We listed an item with a screen in the "For Parts, Not working" category. We clearly stated and PHOTOGRAPHED the defect the item had which was a hairline crack in the screen, and could not have made it more clear what the issue was with the item.

Buyer comes on, buys the item as is. To our knowledge THEY READ THE LISTING (or at least this is what you would think). Buyer gets the item, and immediately opens a return stating that "The item is defective, not working". They list the reason in their own words as : "The screen is cracked".

Huh?????????????? This was all over the listing..What gives here. We contact the buyer and they admit they did not fully read the listing and they are sorry. We pay for the return, no harm, no foul and it was over. They even left us a positive feedback. We provided them EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERVICE given the circumstance.

But of course, this doesn't end here, because NOW? This goes against our "Service Metrics" count, and raises our percentage.

So, being rational people, thinking we are dealing with an HONEST company with ebay? We call the seller performance department, and clearly show them what happened here. We show them the listing, the buyer return reason, and even the message where the buyer stated clearly that they did not read the listing and this was their fault.

The CS rep acknowledges all of this and agrees that we did nothing wrong, and this should not count against us. HOWEVER?? There is no WAY for them to APPEAL service metrics defects, nor remove them..

And this is because, eBay's "rational" here, is that EVERYONE in this category is dealing with buyers like this, and these things "happen" to everyone...It doesn't matter in anyway if this was a VALID RETURN, FOR A VALID REASON STATED BY THE BUYER...That makes NO DIFFERENCE at all..They can and WILL NOT appeal these types of "defects"...

Case closed..

When you have a "policy" in place? Which TOTALLY discounts the TRUTH of any situation..And a company who REFUSES to look at EVIDENCE PUT IN THEIR FACES which show the TRUTH and REALITY of a return, or any other claims by a "buyer" ? And this company is DIRECTLY BENEFITTING FROM TURNING THIS BLIND EYE???

There's ONE word for that, and one word only:

S C A M!!!!!!

And it just gets worse, and worse and worse as you go down the line..Because the example I just gave is ONLY an example of buyer INATTENTION now possibly costing us more money..

If you want to really get irate? I'll tell you how ebay ALSO refuses to remove this type of return from your record?? When buyers ACTIVELY TRY TO SCAM YOU, AND THIS IS PROVEN AND EBAY CLOSES THE RETURN AS A RESULT...And yet? They still refuse to remove the return from the seller metric count...

In my mind? This is nothing short of CRIMINAL BEHAVIOR

Keep in mind also? This "policy" is also being instituted by a company who actually ENCOURAGES RETURNS from every buyer, and FORCES sellers to make those returns FREE, or they don't get their discounts, etc....

I think it is very, very clear here we are no longer dealing with an Honest, Upright company here..And instead we are dealing with people INTENT on robbing every dime they can from us, in the most disgusting, despicable ways they can think up...

SELLER METRICS = CASH GRAB SCAM!!!!!!!!!!

Anonymous · ‎08-27-2019

It does not matter who you speak to-they are just there to placate you but the seller metrics systems and naturally decisions cannot be appealed.They are not happy with there 12% + a percentage of postage fees + Paypal fees.All up that is 16% of my selling price.This extra little scam just make it unviable.20% off your selling price cannot be justified.
I am in exactly the same boat as you.No negative feedback and excellent customer service.I have had multiple items damaged and stolen on Ebay Shuttle and these all add on to your "seller metrics”.

dazzlecity · ‎08-27-2019

thanks for the link Mam - I did read it - BUT it says alot of pretty stuff which is good for sellers if they enforce it - however I could be reading it wrong - it doesn't mention addressing the "metrics" deal?

mam98031 · ‎08-27-2019

@dazzlecity wrote:
thanks for the link Mam - I did read it - BUT it says alot of pretty stuff which is good for sellers if they enforce it - however I could be reading it wrong - it doesn't mention addressing the "metrics" deal?

You might want to spend a little more time with it because it is addressed. Here are some links for ease.

https://static.ebayinc.com/assets/Uploads/Documents/2019-eBay-Open-Seller-Protections.pdf?fbclid=IwA...

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protection-policy?id=4345

Let me know if you have any questions.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

sdgkt_0 · ‎08-27-2019

Well, let me just allow one more cat to slip out of the bag...

With this scam it is also possible competing sellers buy YOUR items for the mere purpose of returning them so as to SKEW seller metrics in THEIR favor by negatively impacting YOURS!!! And you may think it wouldn't be feasible but think again, it wouldn't take that many returns in a specific category to twist percentages if only a little.

mam98031 · ‎08-27-2019

@sdgkt_0 wrote:
Well, let me just allow one more cat to slip out of the bag...

With this scam it is also possible competing sellers buy YOUR items for the mere purpose of returning them so as to SKEW seller metrics in THEIR favor by negatively impacting YOURS!!! And you may think it wouldn't be feasible but think again, it wouldn't take that many returns in a specific category to twist percentages if only a little.

@sdgkt_0

While certainly some conspiracy can happen to any of us at any time, something like this should be relatively easy for Ebay to identify and resolve. You would just need to contact Ebay and give them the details. Most sellers would never even consider this behavior as it wouldn't even occur to most to even consider it and the others the price could be that they can no longer sell here. So is the risk really worth it.

In most any rule on Ebay there may be those that try to break it and will get creative in doing so. But the vast majority of the members wouldn't act this way. If you ever feel as if you are falling prey to a member that is acting this way, make sure you take the time to report them to Ebay.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

writertypes · ‎02-07-2020

This most interesting and passionately conveyed thread has been dormant for awhile, its last post around my first real day on these boards (late-Aug. '19). I just discovered it yesterday, and read every word. It seems most appropriate now -- these days -- to bring it back for review, or in case you missed it, too.

albany_sellers · ‎02-07-2020

I don't know about you guys but I added up all of the cases that are hitting my metrics and about 60% are remorse returns/false INAD, 20% are buyers claiming INAD when tracking shows delivered.

Boy do they still count against my metrics though, anything to push me closer to paying higher fees.

This scam needs to be abolished ASAP and any seller who paid extra in fees behind it should be reimbursed.

albany_sellers · ‎02-07-2020

@auctionpet wrote:

"If you aren't fully versed in this scheme yet, get acquainted with it quickly; because it has the capacity and potential to add THOUSANDS of dollars to your ebay invoice each month (depending on how much you sell, and your prices, etc).."

I don't think I'll ever have to worry about an ebay invoice into the thousands of dollars, I don't even do that in sales per month, let alone fees! If your making so much that an extra 4% will add THOUSANDS, then I don't feel sorry for you. You'd have to be selling at least $25,000 a month for the 4% to equal a grand. I doubt many of the sellers reading these boards take in anywhere near that much!

So as long as you are making a good amount of money, it's okay to be scammed since it doesn't hurt as bad? That's a neat view.

jasoheat_0 · ‎02-11-2020

odd service metrics policies that do not add up , i received my first request for item not arrived , which put that my service metric for that at .17 curious though as my peers are graded in same categories and volume , my peers were at .10 . how can i be graded with my peers on similar volume when i am almost 40% higher then them with 1 request ( i emphasize request as it was only a request and the item showed up on time and i have NO control over the USPS ) the only way per the CSR to lower this is by listing more . then it clicked for me . EBAYS GMV has been stagnant for a few years now , isn't it funny that we are being graded on things we have very little or no control over ( such as fraudulent INAD cases which i have 60% are fraud , and the USPS or any other delivery system or the lack of a buyer even knowing how to use ebay ) sound like a desperate grab for more items to be listed to get GMV up , thats my opinion .ebay has lost my trust( with its horrible policies and its completely offensive customer service) i am taking my good inventory elsewhere . as of now my listings are down by 54% and will continue to go down until i see a reason to trust ebay again . way to many options out there .

mam98031 · ‎02-11-2020

@jasoheat_0 wrote:
odd service metrics policies that do not add up , i received my first request for item not arrived , which put that my service metric for that at .17 curious though as my peers are graded in same categories and volume , my peers were at .10 . how can i be graded with my peers on similar volume when i am almost 40% higher then them with 1 request ( i emphasize request as it was only a request and the item showed up on time and i have NO control over the USPS ) the only way per the CSR to lower this is by listing more . then it clicked for me . EBAYS GMV has been stagnant for a few years now , isn't it funny that we are being graded on things we have very little or no control over ( such as fraudulent INAD cases which i have 60% are fraud , and the USPS or any other delivery system or the lack of a buyer even knowing how to use ebay ) sound like a desperate grab for more items to be listed to get GMV up , thats my opinion .ebay has lost my trust( with its horrible policies and its completely offensive customer service) i am taking my good inventory elsewhere . as of now my listings are down by 54% and will continue to go down until i see a reason to trust ebay again . way to many options out there .

@jasoheat_0

The Service Metrics doesn't kick in until a seller has a minimum of 10 INADs in the same category in the past 90 days or 12 months, whichever is your eval period.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

jasoheat_0 · ‎02-26-2020

that has absolutely nothing to do with what i said ....if a trend begins , well then it will continue until something changes and if metric services are out of wack ( graded on VOLUME with your peers part of the item not arrived request ) does not equal there policy statements well then there you go
again 1 infraction puts me at .17 my peers >.10 how is this grading fairly ... its not ... so eventually i will get FINED for things i have no control over and they only way to lower that number is to list more per the CSR , but hey if i call today i may get a different answer from a CSR as they are very inconsistent ..FYI i just hit 10 INAD with 7 out of 10 that are FRAUDULENT ....again grading( fining ) on a system that is flawed . that's what i am experiencing . and i try calling WOW big mistake .. ebay has lost my trust period , not my listings are at 74% less

mam98031 · ‎02-26-2020

@jasoheat_0 wrote:
that has absolutely nothing to do with what i said ....if a trend begins , well then it will continue until something changes and if metric services are out of wack ( graded on VOLUME with your peers part of the item not arrived request ) does not equal there policy statements well then there you go
again 1 infraction puts me at .17 my peers >.10 how is this grading fairly ... its not ... so eventually i will get FINED for things i have no control over and they only way to lower that number is to list more per the CSR , but hey if i call today i may get a different answer from a CSR as they are very inconsistent ..FYI i just hit 10 INAD with 7 out of 10 that are FRAUDULENT ....again grading( fining ) on a system that is flawed . that's what i am experiencing . and i try calling WOW big mistake .. ebay has lost my trust period , not my listings are at 74% less

There wasn't anything inaccurate about my response, which was "The Service Metrics doesn't kick in until a seller has a minimum of 10 INADs in the same category in the past 90 days or 12 months, whichever is your eval period." I understand what you are saying, but fortunately we do not get eval'd on those rates unless you have 10+ in the same category. And that minimum of 10 is there to protect small sellers.

The GMV is not about how much is listed on Ebay. The GMV is about how much has SOLD on Ebay. So simply getting sellers to list more items does NOT help the GMV unless they actually sell.

Gross Merchandise Volume (alternatively Gross Merchandise Value or GMV) is a term used in online retailing to indicate a total sales dollar value for merchandise sold through a particular marketplace over a certain time frame.

mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999

wewantu2bhappy2 · ‎03-23-2020

Well, we are Ebays latest victim in this insane self defeating exercise of theirs.

7 Damaged in transit claims,3NAD and 3'missing parts' out of 390 sales over 1year. Now we've had a month on vacation our % has spiraled to 3.92%.

So- £6500 in Feb sales x4%=c£260 extra for Ebay - £100,000 of stock we've so far removed off Ebay = c£13000 lost revenue to them. + we spend c£25000p.a on Ebay which we will no longer do; so potentially so another £3000 lost revenue to them.

So somewhere in the area of £15000 down for Ebay so far. We will also continue with our own website expansion and promotion which actually costs less than Ebays fees anyway so will remove our remaining £260000 of stock over the next year.

Well done on yet another money grabbing own goal Ebay!

kh-vince · ‎03-23-2020

Hello Everyone,

Due to the age of the thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread HERE if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thanks for understanding!