Scammed.. what do I do?

[dan_pendleton]

Help!

Timeline:

05/22/18 - I sell a laptop on eBay

05/22/18 - I receive payment

05/22/18 - I buy and print the shipping label, on ebay, USPS trackable, insured, to the verified paypal address

05/23/18 - I drop the laptop off with USPS

05/27/18 - I get an eBay message from the buyer (didn't see the message until morning of 05/28/18) asking what address I sent it to, he is in SC, it now appears to be in NJ

05/28/18 - I respond, confirming I shipped to his PayPal verified address in NC and advising him to contact USPS straight away

05/28/18 - He responds 'ok thanks'

05/27/18 - PayPal emails to say: We recently notified you that a payment you received was made without the account holder's permission, or was the result of a transaction error... please provide tracking number, etc

05/27/18 - I provide the tracking number to PayPal

05/27/18 - PayPal responds - This hold has now been removed and the money is available in your PayPal account. This case is now closed and no further action is required from you

05/27/18 - Further email from PayPal - we're happy to confirm that the transaction below is covered under Seller Protection as you met the PayPal Seller Protection requirements. The disputed amount is now available in your PayPal balance.

06/20/18 - Email from PayPal - The below payment was reversed by the buyer’s bank. We’re reviewing this payment and will email you if we need more information. While we investigate, the payment has been placed on hold and won't be available for you to use.

06/21/18 - I log into PayPal resolution center, provide tracking number, upload ebay shipping receipt and scan of USPS receipt.

06/22/18 - Email from PayPal: Unfortunately, we are unable to reimburse you because the transaction was not covered under PayPal Seller Protection for the following reason(s): We were unable to verify the shipment information you provided. Case closed.

06/22/18 - I call PayPal: A rep looks into my case, tells me the package was redirected and I need to get written evidence from USPS to provide to PayPal proving that I didn't redirect it. She also said get it to them by Wednesday, as that is the last day they can review it. She also said she would appeal/reopen the case and have it assigned to her.

06/22/18 - I call USPS 1 800 Number - (after a 45 minute wait) - their rep tells me I cannot get that evidence, she doesn't have access to it. She also tells me that anyone with my name and the tracking number can redirect a package. My only recourse, she tells me, may be to report it to the postal inspector as mail fraud.

06/23/18 - I log into PayPal, neagtive balance on my account, case is still showing as closed.

Tracking history:

May 29, 2018, 2:54 pm
Delivered, Front Desk/Reception
LIVINGSTON, NJ 07039
Your item was delivered at 2:54 pm on May 29, 2018 in LIVINGSTON, NJ 07039. The item was signed for by M CRAIG.
May 29, 2018, 10:24 am
Out for Delivery
LIVINGSTON, NJ 07039
May 27, 2018, 1:28 pm
Delivery Attempted - No Access to Delivery Location
LIVINGSTON, NJ 07039
May 27, 2018, 8:41 am
Arrived at Hub
ORANGE, NJ 07050
May 27, 2018, 4:07 am
Departed USPS Regional Facility
NEWARK NJ DISTRIBUTION CENTER
May 26, 2018, 8:20 pm
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
NEWARK NJ DISTRIBUTION CENTER
May 26, 2018
In Transit to Next Facility
May 25, 2018, 8:34 pm
Departed USPS Regional Destination Facility
FAYETTEVILLE NC DISTRIBUTION CENTER ANNEX
May 25, 2018, 8:31 pm
Arrived at USPS Regional Destination Facility
FAYETTEVILLE NC DISTRIBUTION CENTER ANNEX
May 25, 2018, 2:29 pm
USPS in possession of item
SOUTHPORT, NC 28461
May 24, 2018, 9:15 pm
Departed USPS Regional Facility
FAYETTEVILLE NC DISTRIBUTION CENTER ANNEX
May 24, 2018, 7:32 pm
Arrived at USPS Regional Destination Facility
FAYETTEVILLE NC DISTRIBUTION CENTER ANNEX
May 24, 2018
In Transit to Next Facility
May 23, 2018, 8:42 pm
Arrived at USPS Regional Origin Facility
MERRIFIELD VA DISTRIBUTION CENTER
May 23, 2018, 5:03 pm
Departed Post Office
PURCELLVILLE, VA 20132
May 23, 2018, 3:52 pm
USPS in possession of item
PURCELLVILLE, VA 20132
May 22, 2018, 7:38 pm
Shipping Label Created, USPS Awaiting Item
PURCELLVILLE, VA 20132
May 22, 2018
Pre-Shipment Info Sent to USPS, USPS Awaiting Item

What are your thoughts and what do I do?

As far as I can see, unless his account was compromised, he ordered the redirect or perhaps someone with access at USPS did.

Would the postal inspector have access to any further information about who did the redirect? 

Should I get eBay invloved, to they offer me any protection?

Lessons already learned;

1. watch the tracking for all future sales like a hawk 2. Don't use USPS.

Advice gratefully received. I'm not going to let this go on principal alone, never mind it's money I can't afford to lose.

Thanks,

Dan

[jonathankirkland]

---

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

From the op:

06/20/18 - Email from PayPal - The below payment was reversed by the buyer’s bank. We’re reviewing this payment and will email you if we need more information.

Question for anyone....

As far as I'm aware, the rule for proof of shipment only is for an unauthorized use credit card chargeback.   In this case PP is saying that the payment was reversed by the bank...is that the same thing as a credit card chargeback?  

---

It also applies to INR (item not received), not just chargebacks.

[jonathankirkland]

---

@dan_pendleton wrote:

From https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#s3-seller-protection

"You must ship the item to the shipping address on the transaction details page in your PayPal account for the transaction. If you originally ship the item to the recipient's shipping address on the transaction details page but the item is later redirected to a different address, you will not be eligible for PayPal Seller Protection. We therefore recommend not using a shipping service that is arranged by the buyer, so that you will be able to provide valid proof of shipping and delivery."

That covers PayPal I guess..  it's my word against the buyer's and PayPal values buyer protection over sellers. I can't help feeling that amounts to PayPal calling me a liar and I take that very personally. I will not let this go. I'll call PayPal again on Monday and go see the Post Master at USPS.

---

@dan_pendleton

Please update us on your findings.

I am just stunned this was allowed to happen and that Paypal is railroading you, I literally cannot believe it.

[feefoo72]

"If you originally ship the item to the recipient's shipping address on the transaction details page but the item is later redirected to a different address, you will not be eligible for PayPal Seller Protection."

Paypal must know about this scam, maybe that's why they refuse to honor their seller "protection"  policy; they know that USPS allows the recipient to redirect a package without the senders authorization.

I hope you prevail against this corruption.

[dan_pendleton]

Thanks all. Still not resolved, but some more details have come to light. I'm not going to comment here yet, as it's now an ongoing investigation, but as promised... I will not let this go. I've spent all morning on it so far.. I suspect it will take a lot more time.

[jonathankirkland]

---

@dan_pendleton wrote:

Thanks all. Still not resolved, but some more details have come to light. I'm not going to comment here yet, as it's now an ongoing investigation, but as promised... I will not let this go. I've spent all morning on it so far.. I suspect it will take a lot more time.

---

Unfortunately, you are probably correct about it taking a lot of time. My case with the fraudulent seller took 2-3 weeks. It was not fun.

[marinermikes]

---

@jonathankirkland wrote:

---

@dan_pendleton wrote:

From https://www.paypal.com/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#s3-seller-protection

"You must ship the item to the shipping address on the transaction details page in your PayPal account for the transaction. If you originally ship the item to the recipient's shipping address on the transaction details page but the item is later redirected to a different address, you will not be eligible for PayPal Seller Protection. We therefore recommend not using a shipping service that is arranged by the buyer, so that you will be able to provide valid proof of shipping and delivery."

That covers PayPal I guess..  it's my word against the buyer's and PayPal values buyer protection over sellers. I can't help feeling that amounts to PayPal calling me a liar and I take that very personally. I will not let this go. I'll call PayPal again on Monday and go see the Post Master at USPS.

---

@dan_pendleton

Please update us on your findings.

I am just stunned this was allowed to happen and that Paypal is railroading you, I literally cannot believe it.

---

Believe it! I've had to deal with several issues with Pay Pal lately. In the course of my investigation on my issues the only conclusion my invesigation came to was that Pay Pal does not do any investigation!

Open and shut cases ruled against me even though I offered proof. Pay Pal looked at my evidence told me that they have never used google in the course of a investigation, were amazed at what they found one particular buyer was pulling and then promptly ruled against me. Made me loose faith in the system!

[Anonymous]

---

@jonathankirkland wrote:

It makes me so angry that this type of thing is allowed to happen.

@Anonymous

Can you please provide this gentleman with any type of assistance on this matter, anything at all he can do to avoid being scammed so horribly?

Note: It's the weekend so it may take a few days for Trinton to respond but he is very good about helping with important problems.

---

Hi @jonathankirkland, thank you for getting my attention! Considering the PayPal dispute and the subsequent chargeback in this transaction, I unfortunately won't be able to pursue any additional protections on my end. The OP will need to work with PayPal to the best of their ability.

@dan_pendleton, I can recommend contacting the local Postmaster to discuss the documentation that PayPal has requested or reaching back out to PayPal to report that this documentation cannot be provided. PayPal may be able to offer additional protections with further discussion.

[jonathankirkland]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@jonathankirkland wrote:

It makes me so angry that this type of thing is allowed to happen.

@Anonymous

Can you please provide this gentleman with any type of assistance on this matter, anything at all he can do to avoid being scammed so horribly?

Note: It's the weekend so it may take a few days for Trinton to respond but he is very good about helping with important problems.

---

Hi @jonathankirkland, thank you for getting my attention! Considering the PayPal dispute and the subsequent chargeback in this transaction, I unfortunately won't be able to pursue any additional protections on my end. The OP will need to work with PayPal to the best of their ability.

@dan_pendleton, I can recommend contacting the local Postmaster to discuss the documentation that PayPal has requested or reaching back out to PayPal to report that this documentation cannot be provided. PayPal may be able to offer additional protections with further discussion.

---

I suspected as much but thought it couldn't hurt to ask, thank you for taking the time to reply.

It's just so heart breaking and it gets so frustrating to keep reading stories like this all the time.

[missjen831]

---

@jonathankirkland wrote:

---

@pjcdn2005 wrote:

From the op:

06/20/18 - Email from PayPal - The below payment was reversed by the buyer’s bank. We’re reviewing this payment and will email you if we need more information.

Question for anyone....

As far as I'm aware, the rule for proof of shipment only is for an unauthorized use credit card chargeback.   In this case PP is saying that the payment was reversed by the bank...is that the same thing as a credit card chargeback?  

---

It also applies to INR (item not received), not just chargebacks.

---

INRs require proof of delivery not proof of shipment. UA requires proof of shipment.

[dan_pendleton]

Thank you... I've engaged with USPS, we'll see how that goes. I'm frankly disgusted with PayPal for their policy and attitude this far. They are very polite and try to sound caring when telling me its basically my problem and they are not covering me. I'll post updates when I can.

[210treasures]

I had a similar type of issue like this with PayPal before. I called them and tried to explain basic common sense policy that they have to get my issue fixed, and I got no where with the representative so I demanded to speak to a supervisor.

The supervisor was actually far more helpful, and even told me the previous representative was clearly in the wrong. The issue then got corrected promptly, with funds now available. I guess it just depends on who you have the privilege of speaking with. Good luck.

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@dan_pendleton wrote:

Thanks all. Still not resolved, but some more details have come to light. I'm not going to comment here yet, as it's now an ongoing investigation, but as promised... I will not let this go. I've spent all morning on it so far.. I suspect it will take a lot more time.

---

I hope this works out well for you, OP.

[numisnorway]

My distaste for paypal has been growing at an increasing speed lately.

[dan_pendleton]

So, spoke to a third level supervisor at PayPal today.. they will not reopen the case or offer any assistance/protection whatsoever. His line was I didn't meet PayPal's stipulation to use a shipping company that did not allow redirection and therefore are not covered by Seller Protection.  Disgusted.. totally disgusted by them.  So, my account has a sizeable negative balance on it.. and it will stay that way as long as possible.

I will continue to pursue this with the postal inspector, although I have little faith that will result in anything.. and am fairly sure if it does, that the financial loss wouldn't be covered.

I'll post any further updates as and when.

Everyone beware, use some sort of redirect protection or a company that doesn't allow it..when shipping, if you don't.. as far as PayPal is concerned.. you are SOL.

[dtexley3]

---

@dan_pendleton wrote:

So, spoke to a third level supervisor at PayPal today.. they will not reopen the case or offer any assistance/protection whatsoever. His line was I didn't meet PayPal's stipulation to use a shipping company that did not allow redirection and therefore are not covered by Seller Protection.  Disgusted.. totally disgusted by them.  So, my account has a sizeable negative balance on it.. and it will stay that way as long as possible.

I will continue to pursue this with the postal inspector, although I have little faith that will result in anything.. and am fairly sure if it does, that the financial loss wouldn't be covered.

I'll post any further updates as and when.

Everyone beware, use some sort of redirect protection or a company that doesn't allow it..when shipping, if you don't.. as far as PayPal is concerned.. you are SOL.

---

What carriers don't allow redirection?  I'm not aware of any that make that claim?  Maybe the paypal manager could clarify which carriers are now "acceptible" for use with paypal?