eBay

leedx1 · ‎12-03-2017

On November 29th, I sold an iPhone 7 for $400 and received an instant payment. Shortly after the buyer paid, I received a message from him, asking me to ship it to a different address than what was on the order. On the same day, I called eBay customer service and asked if this was okay to do. The representative assured me that if the buyer requests me to ship the item to a different address, it is okay to do so, because "we have record of the messages between buyers and sellers, so if the buyer makes a claim, we have the message from the buyer asking you to ship to the new address, so you are still protected". I was smart enough to record this call, so I have proof. I figured okay, eBay would know best, I'm good to ship this item. I shipped the item to the new address, and what would you know, the next day I get an email from PayPal that the buyer is trying to reverse the transaction because it was "unauthorized". I responded to the case, saying that the buyer requested me to ship it to the new address. PayPal closed the case in the buyer's favor because I didn't ship it to the address on file, HOWEVER, I did my due diligence and contacted eBay to make sure it was safe, and they told me it was, so how was I supposed to know better? So now, I'm out $400. I even tried to have USPS intercept the package and they delivered it anyway.

I spent about 6 hours on the phone with eBay and PayPal yesterday, and I have had a 3 way call with myself, eBay and PayPal, and the eBay rep was arguing with the PayPal rep, telling them they need to return my money because they have the message from the buyer. Of course, PayPal won't budge, and eBay says they can't do anything because the case is with PayPal.

I've filed a complaint with BBB, I tried to have USPS intercept the package but they didn't, I've spoken to multiple eBay reps that think it's okay to ship to a different address if a buyer requests it, I've spoken to so many supervisors and I am getting nowhere. I found out that I shipped it to a freight forwarder, so my last resort is to get ahold of them tomorrow as soon as they open to see if they can stop the package from going overseas. Is there anything else I can do?!

callahanmagic · ‎12-05-2017

@Anonymous

I appreciate your reply re-emphasizing eBay's MBG protection for seller.

Being an indie merchant on this platform for a short 11 years, I now considered myself thoroughly eBay/Paypal policies illiterate.

Taking on my own quote: "All in all - simply put: Do not ship or take orders from buyers whose shipping addresses differ from Paypal's."

Going forward, this particular thread by OP @leedx1 have indeed open the pandora box.

As you've read - most of the posters here felt heartsick for the OP. Hopefully, a positive final

outcome can be concluded for the OP.

-

Lucas
*still rollin' with the punches*
"Sophie" - Forever Sidekick - April 2007 - Sept, 05, 2017

leedx1 · ‎12-05-2017

@missjen831 @callahanmagic @castlemagicmemories

Wow I am surprised at how much this blew up.

Obviously, I now realize eBay and PayPal are seperate companies, and they have seperate policies. However, the two companies integrate heavily together, and my opinion is that if a customer calls an eBay CSR, the CSR should be trained to look at that specific eBay purchase and how the transaction was completed to say "I see here you used PayPal, you would be covered under eBay protection, but PayPal might have a different policy, please check with them". That's all it would have taken, 5 extra seconds for a CSR to give me that info and I would have investigated further with PayPal and this whole mess wouldn't have happened. There are honestly way too many rules and exceptions, and I'm learning now that neither eBay or PayPal have the seller's best interest in mind.

Luckily, these last couple days I have not left one path untaken. After speaking to about 17 different people at Aramex, I was able to get the shipment held and the buyer's account closed. We are still working on getting the phone back to me, but at least I know it's not going to the scammer. I'm confident that one way or another, I will get this resolved. Thank you all for your helpful insight. I think this problem is much bigger than $400. eBay needs to do better. Sellers place a lot of trust in eBay's hands, and I think it's the CSR's responsibility to inform their customers as much as possible. I feel so bad for all of the people that are scammed on this website every day.

myescape · ‎12-05-2017

eBay has NO power to compel any user to follow thru.Sellers can cancel any buy not just auction.If a seller cancels for non buyer caused reasons too often his account will be sanctioned.

So on Amazon sellers do not have an out of stock cancellation ability?

This is a user to user board not eBay employees.
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When people show you who they are, believe them

phcd1 · ‎12-05-2017

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
As you found out, you may be covered with Ebay but not with Paypal. You must ship to the address on Paypal.

Sorry you had this loss.

YOu know I can totally feel for you. If you called, you would think that information applied to Paypal as well.

Why, they have nothing to do with each other? They are seperate companies.

castlemagicmemories · ‎12-05-2017

@phcd1 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
As you found out, you may be covered with Ebay but not with Paypal. You must ship to the address on Paypal.

Sorry you had this loss.

YOu know I can totally feel for you. If you called, you would think that information applied to Paypal as well.
Why, they have nothing to do with each other? They are seperate companies.

Because even though they are separate companies, a lot of people still think Ebay owns them. And they are very inter tangled, most payments on this site are by Paypal. So it is very easy for any seller to think that when Ebay says, you are covered, that is a blanket covering~that it applies to Paypal as well.

Further there have been many threads on the Board that have the seller in the exact postion of the OP, they were told by Ebay CS that they would be covered, and then the buyer files with Paypal, and they are not covered.

That is why posters have been saying that Ebay could add, but you need to check with your Payment processor. Because the OP is not alone in this situation.

phcd1 · ‎12-05-2017

@leedx1 wrote:
...Obviously, I now realize eBay and PayPal are seperate companies, and they have seperate policies. However, the two companies integrate heavily together, and my opinion is that if a customer calls an eBay CSR, the CSR should be trained to look at that specific eBay purchase and how the transaction was completed to say "I see here you used PayPal, you would be covered under eBay protection, but PayPal might have a different policy, please check with them"....

Why? It goes beyond eBay and PayPal, there might be a credit card company in there too. You want eBay CS reps to state the CC company policies too? This has nothing to do with eBay and those other companies can change policy at anytime. Like I said, I'm sorry this happened, but it's black and white. Your asking for something that is not provided by the eBay seller protection. Heck, eBay barely pays for their OWN policies let alone others.

myescape · ‎12-05-2017

eBay has NEVER offered protection from snads only from not received claims that have online delivery confirmation.Since ebay can not verify either side in a snad dispute they err to the buyer to retain them.I know in either side in a dispute believes they have proof the reality is most of said proof is not verifible on an online platform-most everything can be faked

This is a user to user board not eBay employees.
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When people show you who they are, believe them

phcd1 · ‎12-05-2017

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@phcd1 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
As you found out, you may be covered with Ebay but not with Paypal. You must ship to the address on Paypal.

Sorry you had this loss.

YOu know I can totally feel for you. If you called, you would think that information applied to Paypal as well.
Why, they have nothing to do with each other? They are seperate companies.
Because even though they are separate companies, a lot of people still think Ebay owns them. And they are very inter tangled, most payments on this site are by Paypal. So it is very easy for any seller to think that when Ebay says, you are covered, that is a blanket covering~that it applies to Paypal as well.

Further there have been many threads on the Board that have the seller in the exact postion of the OP, they were told by Ebay CS that they would be covered, and then the buyer files with Paypal, and they are not covered.

That is why posters have been saying that Ebay could add, but you need to check with your Payment processor. Because the OP is not alone in this situation.

There are 1000's of sellers in eBay "situations" everyday that are "not fair", but it's up to the person (buyer or seller) to read the policies. I'm VERY pro seller as you know, but the protection the OP is looking for is only offered by PayPal, not eBay. If there was no PayPal involved (think merchant direct payment for example), and the buyer did the same thing with his/her credit card, would you expect the credit card company to cover it because eBay said they were "Good to go"? I think not.

castlemagicmemories · ‎12-05-2017

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@phcd1 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
As you found out, you may be covered with Ebay but not with Paypal. You must ship to the address on Paypal.

Sorry you had this loss.

YOu know I can totally feel for you. If you called, you would think that information applied to Paypal as well.
Why, they have nothing to do with each other? They are seperate companies.
Because even though they are separate companies, a lot of people still think Ebay owns them. And they are very inter tangled, most payments on this site are by Paypal. So it is very easy for any seller to think that when Ebay says, you are covered, that is a blanket covering~that it applies to Paypal as well.

Further there have been many threads on the Board that have the seller in the exact postion of the OP, they were told by Ebay CS that they would be covered, and then the buyer files with Paypal, and they are not covered.

That is why posters have been saying that Ebay could add, but you need to check with your Payment processor. Because the OP is not alone in this situation.

Or they could simply stop providing protection when a customer asks in a messsage to change the address, since the payment processsor's terms override theirs.

Just a thought.

Under what circumstances would Ebay's protection come into play, when Paypal does not recognize any but the address on the payment?

phcd1 · ‎12-05-2017

Just in case anyone is googling it:

"In this scenario, a fraudulent customer uses a stolen credit card (or a cardestablished with a stolen identity) to purchase a product from a legitimate merchant. ... While cardholders may not be liable for unauthorized transaction, merchants have no such protection."

castlemagicmemories · ‎12-05-2017

@phcd1 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@phcd1 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
As you found out, you may be covered with Ebay but not with Paypal. You must ship to the address on Paypal.

Sorry you had this loss.

YOu know I can totally feel for you. If you called, you would think that information applied to Paypal as well.
Why, they have nothing to do with each other? They are seperate companies.
Because even though they are separate companies, a lot of people still think Ebay owns them. And they are very inter tangled, most payments on this site are by Paypal. So it is very easy for any seller to think that when Ebay says, you are covered, that is a blanket covering~that it applies to Paypal as well.

Further there have been many threads on the Board that have the seller in the exact postion of the OP, they were told by Ebay CS that they would be covered, and then the buyer files with Paypal, and they are not covered.

That is why posters have been saying that Ebay could add, but you need to check with your Payment processor. Because the OP is not alone in this situation.
There are 1000's of sellers in eBay "situations" everyday that are "not fair", but it's up to the person (buyer or seller) to read the policies. I'm VERY pro seller as you know, but the protection the OP is looking for is only offered by PayPal, not eBay. If there was no PayPal involved (think merchant direct payment for example), and the buyer did the same thing with his/her credit card, would you expect the credit card company to cover it because eBay said they were "Good to go"? I think not.

Totally agree it is up to the seller to read the policies and be aware but many just call CS and go by what they say. And actually you touch on a point I was considering, Ebay does not have anything to do with the payment, so PP or the credit card policies would be the only ones that matter. As you say, CC is not going to cover it, either., if their customer challenges it. I don't know when that Ebay protection for a message of address change would kick in.

phcd1 · ‎12-05-2017

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@phcd1 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
As you found out, you may be covered with Ebay but not with Paypal. You must ship to the address on Paypal.

Sorry you had this loss.

YOu know I can totally feel for you. If you called, you would think that information applied to Paypal as well.
Why, they have nothing to do with each other? They are seperate companies.
Because even though they are separate companies, a lot of people still think Ebay owns them. And they are very inter tangled, most payments on this site are by Paypal. So it is very easy for any seller to think that when Ebay says, you are covered, that is a blanket covering~that it applies to Paypal as well.

Further there have been many threads on the Board that have the seller in the exact postion of the OP, they were told by Ebay CS that they would be covered, and then the buyer files with Paypal, and they are not covered.

That is why posters have been saying that Ebay could add, but you need to check with your Payment processor. Because the OP is not alone in this situation.
Or they could simply stop providing protection when a customer asks in a messsage to change the address, since the payment processsor's terms override theirs.

Just a thought.

Under what circumstances would Ebay's protection come into play, when Paypal does not recognize any but the address on the payment?

This issue has nothing to do with eBay. The OP wants "unauthorized transaction" protection. That is ONLY offered by PayPal.

phcd1 · ‎12-05-2017

@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@phcd1 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@phcd1 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
As you found out, you may be covered with Ebay but not with Paypal. You must ship to the address on Paypal.

Sorry you had this loss.

YOu know I can totally feel for you. If you called, you would think that information applied to Paypal as well.
Why, they have nothing to do with each other? They are seperate companies.
Because even though they are separate companies, a lot of people still think Ebay owns them. And they are very inter tangled, most payments on this site are by Paypal. So it is very easy for any seller to think that when Ebay says, you are covered, that is a blanket covering~that it applies to Paypal as well.

Further there have been many threads on the Board that have the seller in the exact postion of the OP, they were told by Ebay CS that they would be covered, and then the buyer files with Paypal, and they are not covered.

That is why posters have been saying that Ebay could add, but you need to check with your Payment processor. Because the OP is not alone in this situation.
There are 1000's of sellers in eBay "situations" everyday that are "not fair", but it's up to the person (buyer or seller) to read the policies. I'm VERY pro seller as you know, but the protection the OP is looking for is only offered by PayPal, not eBay. If there was no PayPal involved (think merchant direct payment for example), and the buyer did the same thing with his/her credit card, would you expect the credit card company to cover it because eBay said they were "Good to go"? I think not.
Totally agree it is up to the seller to read the policies and be aware but many just call CS and go by what they say. And actually you touch on a point I was considering, Ebay does not have anything to do with the payment, so PP or the credit card policies would be the only ones that matter. As you say, CC is not going to cover it, either., if their customer challenges it. I don't know when that Ebay protection for a message of address change would kick in.

Winner, winner, Chicken dinner. ONLY for an INR claim.

castlemagicmemories · ‎12-05-2017

@phcd1 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@phcd1 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@phcd1 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
As you found out, you may be covered with Ebay but not with Paypal. You must ship to the address on Paypal.

Sorry you had this loss.

YOu know I can totally feel for you. If you called, you would think that information applied to Paypal as well.
Why, they have nothing to do with each other? They are seperate companies.
Because even though they are separate companies, a lot of people still think Ebay owns them. And they are very inter tangled, most payments on this site are by Paypal. So it is very easy for any seller to think that when Ebay says, you are covered, that is a blanket covering~that it applies to Paypal as well.

Further there have been many threads on the Board that have the seller in the exact postion of the OP, they were told by Ebay CS that they would be covered, and then the buyer files with Paypal, and they are not covered.

That is why posters have been saying that Ebay could add, but you need to check with your Payment processor. Because the OP is not alone in this situation.
There are 1000's of sellers in eBay "situations" everyday that are "not fair", but it's up to the person (buyer or seller) to read the policies. I'm VERY pro seller as you know, but the protection the OP is looking for is only offered by PayPal, not eBay. If there was no PayPal involved (think merchant direct payment for example), and the buyer did the same thing with his/her credit card, would you expect the credit card company to cover it because eBay said they were "Good to go"? I think not.
Totally agree it is up to the seller to read the policies and be aware but many just call CS and go by what they say. And actually you touch on a point I was considering, Ebay does not have anything to do with the payment, so PP or the credit card policies would be the only ones that matter. As you say, CC is not going to cover it, either., if their customer challenges it. I don't know when that Ebay protection for a message of address change would kick in.
Winner, winner, Chicken dinner. ONLY for an INR claim.

Well, ok, so only in that limited situation. Then statement would be, if you have a message from the buye asking for an address change, you are only covered in the event of an INR, item not received, claim. Check with your payment processor.

chipper01work · ‎12-05-2017

@phcd1 wrote:
Just in case anyone is googling it:

"In this scenario, a fraudulent customer uses a stolen credit card (or a cardestablished with a stolen identity) to purchase a product from a legitimate merchant. ... While cardholders may not be liable for unauthorized transaction, merchants have no such protection."

Makes an excellent case for checks and money orders. Screw the CC companies. Oh that's right, eBay says we MUST use an electronic payment processor and forced Paypal on sellers for 10+ years under the guise of "protecting buyers"