mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@luis_reca wrote:I agree about rules...sure...but the point is the rules.
You can check my profile...10 years buying...Only I've left 2 negative feedback in this period.....I wrote a true...about the product....no lies...no offense...also writing that I have full refund of product...so...Can a rule delete that?
Ok if is a new account...first purhard ....not the true..etc.
Too much.....I don't continue...Im clear with the new Ebay now.
Thanks everyone.
Honestly I had no need to check your account regarding FB. I think you have a legitimate complaint regarding the product you received from your seller.
These rules are not "new". They have existed for a very long time.
The rules don't say that if you post the truth, no matter what it is, you are OK and the FB will stand. For buyers or sellers.
For sellers, they aren't allowed to speak the truth if the truth is negative in nature. We are told to lie or just don't leave FB at all. Whatever is said by the seller on Buyer FB has to be positive in nature. Nothing else is allowed per the rules. Truth plays ZERO part in it.
For buyers, they have far more flexibility within the rules that are for buyers. But make no mistake, you still have to abide by the rules. The rules are not that harsh or controlling. There is lots and lots of ways to say what you want within the rules. It is just that you didn't about the rules, thought what you wanted to say would be an exception to the rules or any number of reasons you may have had. But there aren't exceptions and not knowing the rules isn't a defense to have whatever you said stand.
You are justified in feeling the way you do about your seller.
As to your other FB that did not get removed. If something you said did breach one or more of the rules and it is still there, that only means the seller didn't report it. Ebay doesn't have a bot that goes out and looks for buyer FB that breaches one or more of the rules, the seller has to report it to Ebay.
@mam98031 wrote:
@greg5000 wrote:
@mam98031 wrote;
FB is only removed if it breaches one or more of the Ebay rules on FB. Now often times the buyer doesn't agree with Ebay for doing this, but that is not part of the process. Ebay does not now nor have they ever sought the approval of the buyer before removing FB. It is Ebay's opinion that matters in such cases.
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This is not true and should not be stated here as a fact. eBay removes valid Negative Feedback that does not violate anything in the Feedback Policy. It appears to happen often and for High Volume or Sponsored Sellers (from what I see reported here and my experience).
I had this happen 3 times recently for the same seller, and was told each time by Concierge Customer Support that my Feedback was 100% valid, did not violate any of eBay's Feedback Policies, and should not have been removed. The first time my Feedback was restored after I called Customer Support. They indicated that this was done in error by an eBay Agent and they would be coached. Shortly after my Negative Feedback was restored the Seller tried to offer me money to change my Feedback to Neutral (which is a form of Feedback extortion, per Customer Support). Before I even had a chance to reply to the Seller, the Feedback was removed! I was assured each time I left valid Negative Feedback that it was removed in error, should not have been removed and would not happen again, but each time the Negative Feedback was removed. I have screenshots of all of the Feedback left, restored, and other supporting information. I also received a $125 coupon from eBay as an apology, but I would rather have all of the Negative Feedback restored to protect the eBay Community.
So to conclude a fact ..... eBay does remove Negative Feedback in violation of it's own Feedback Policy.
And the opinions of inexperienced and improperly trained Customer Support Agents are not eBay's opinion, but clearly show eBay doesn't know how to train it's Customer Support staff.
Or maybe this is eBay's opinion, and eBay is endorsing violating their own Feedback and Trust & Safety Polices to keep the Positive Feedback Percentage high for High Volume Sellers? More sales more fees.
Welcome back. I hope your trip to Hawaii was filled with fun and relaxation!
I have no idea what your agenda is for trying to engage me on this subject again. Prior to your vaca your post to me on this subject were harsh and you were tired of having any kind of discussion with me. I have been intentionally leaving you alone so as not to stir up some unnecessary conflict on the threads. So why is it that you feel the need to comment to me on something you are full aware of my opinions on the subject?
I understand that you are and have been upset by the FB that you posted against one seller that got removed. As has been stated numerous times to you, there are more factors than what the buyer literally says in the FB left than can cause the FB to be removed.
Some of those reasons, but not limited to are:
1. Something stated in the FB that violates policy.
2. Something stated in emails between trading partners that shows an issue with FB or extortion.
3. Abuse of the FB system. Frequent negs, going after a competitor, etc.
But I know you don't believe me, that has been clear. I take no issue with that. But just because you feel or another buyer feels that the FB they left was "valid" does not mean it didn't breach one of the rules of conduct on the site.
Any further issues with understanding this subject I think is better addressed to Ebay or the CSRs and I have no confidence at all that anything I say will make any difference for you.
I believe it was Trinton that initially addressed this issue for you on a different thread.
@Anonymous
Hi @mam98031 - happy to add my part here. You are correct that we have very established policies that dictate when feedback is administratively edited or removed (some details of those policies can be found here, here and here).
To @greg5000 's point, there are times when feedback is removed improperly or for an incorrect reason. In those situations we work to coach the teammates involved, and as a general practice we do not reinstate feedback once removed regardless of the reason. While there may be exceptions to that occasionally depending on the exact situation, the general rules governing feedback wouldn't change and shouldn't be discounted.
In this instance, there is no indication that the feedback OP was mentioning was removed improperly. From what was described it sounds as though the feedback left did not violate any rules, but qualified for seller protection.
Thanks!
@couldabeenworse wrote:In this instance, there is no indication that the feedback OP was mentioning was removed improperly. From what was described it sounds as though the feedback left did not violate any rules, but qualified for seller protection.
I'm sorry, but I find it quite disheartening that eBay feels a need to protect sellers accused of selling counterfeit goods.
That really is a two way street. Just because a buyer claims something is fake does not mean it is fake.
I'm not sure about all of the details for the OP, but it did appear to be valid Feedback he left and I do know the Seller should also get the benefit of the doubt. My situation was well documented with a Bait & Switch Seller and many SNAD items received. 3x was a charm as they say, but the most important thing you and eBay should take away from these posts (and customers raising concerns by phone), is that it's making us not want to shop at eBay.
I saw the FB you left for that seller before it was removed. I have never offered an opinion one way or another on the FB you left on any of the various threads that you have brought this up. Nor do I offer one now.
Clearly something in the FB you left, emails you sent the seller or abuse of the FB system was determined by Ebay so they removed the FB. And Ebay's policy does not require asking permission from the buyer or getting their approval to do so. None of that do I have access to the information that transpired and I offer no opinion one way or the other as to what happened to you nor do I make any kind of judgement other than Ebay saw something that caused them to remove the FB. Beyond that, IDK.
As to how many SNADs the seller has or had. I'm unsure as to how you would have those numbers as it isn't anything Ebay would disclose to you.
@couldabeenworse wrote:That really is a two way street. Just because a buyer claims something is fake does not mean it is fake.
Understood, but the seller having Free Returns should not be the determining factor. Again, it just makes the feedback system as useless for buyers as it is for sellers.
In fact, I would argue that eBay's current feedback scheme fraudulently coaxes buyers to purchase from sellers based on a false representation of their reputation.
I can see your point of view and I don't necessarily disagree with it. But I do think that before a buyer can publicly post that you are selling counterfeits or fakes, some actual proof should be required. It is a VERY SERIOUS allegation and can be extremely damaging to the ability of the seller to earn money. It is unfair and irresponsible for buyers to be able to post this merely because it is their opinion or as a way to get what they want out of the seller. Too many buyers know they can throw that out there in an effort to take advantage of the seller. I just think Ebay could do a better job for both buyers and seller in regards to this.
@greg5000 wrote:@mam98031 wrote;
I saw the FB you left for that seller before it was removed. I have never offered an opinion one way or another on the FB you left on any of the various threads that you have brought this up. Nor do I offer one now.
Clearly something in the FB you left, emails you sent the seller or abuse of the FB system was determined by Ebay so they removed the FB. And Ebay's policy does not require asking permission from the buyer or getting their approval to do so. None of that do I have access to the information that transpired and I offer no opinion one way or the other as to what happened to you nor do I make any kind of judgement other than Ebay saw something that caused them to remove the FB. Beyond that, IDK.
As to how many SNADs the seller has or had. I'm unsure as to how you would have those numbers as it isn't anything Ebay would disclose to you.
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Not sure how or why you saw the Feedback I left, but your assertion that "Clearly something in the FB you left, emails you sent the seller or abuse of the FB system was determined by Ebay so they removed the FB" is 100% incorrect, is not appreciated, and you should not be trying to discredit others posting here. eBay Concierge Supervisors and a Supervisor in Trust & Safety (on all calls I made regarding this) conformed that ALL of the Feedback I left was fully acceptable, appropriate, and did not violate any of eBay's Feedback Policies and should not have been removed. They also confirmed that ALL of my emails were cordial and well communicated, and they confirmed that the Seller had tried to initiate Feedback Extortion with me by offering refunds if I changed my Feedback.
You're stating your opinion as if it's fact regarding something you know nothing about. This is unwanted and your opinion is not valid in this situation (i.e. you have no details and were not involved in this).
Regarding all of the SNAD items ..... I was referring to the many SNAD items I received on 3 of 7 orders I made (I purchased > than 100 items). You can also see Feedback from other Buyers reporting items SNAD.
I have offered no opinion one way or another on what the FB you left said, nor do I now. So I'm not sure why or how you feel I have tried to "discredit" you. That wasn't my intent and I'm sorry my post left you feeling that way.
You've discussed this issue a few items on various threads and on none of them, to include this one, have I offered my opinion one way or another on what transpired for you. Nor do I now.
