SELLERS - Part of The Problem with Ebay?

[goldguy22k]

OK, so I am using what could be considered an inflammatory style in the title, but  am looking for rational discussion as I am pointing out issues and places where there could be improvement.  There is no "quick fix" solution - just things buyers should do or do better.   So offering this up as insight, from a buyer's perspective.   So yeah, if you want to look at my feedback or go ahead and make assumptions or attacks, I guess that is your "right."  Sigh.  But I am just offering insight in hopes a few other sellers might learn from my experience as a buyer. 

Recently, I needed to replace an item that I use frequently.  So being an ebay seller too, I came here looking to buy.  I had in my mind an amount I was willing to pay and searched out recent sales and confirmed I was in the right ball park. Adjusted my amount a bit.

So I entered my search criteria and ebay's algorithm returned 53 items.  On closer inspection 19 items (36%! )  were irrelevant. (....and some say there is "throttling?" )    The irrelevant items were items associated with what I wanted but not the exact item.  (I used an exact name/info search)  So down to 34 listing to consider.

Looking further, about half had prices that were 50% or more higher than the average of recent sales and most of these were BIN with no BO associated.  So I looked at the remaining 17 closely.  This is where the "fun" begins. 

Now what follows is included should anyone wish to understand what a buyer "sees" and experiences.  

So the fun is that HALF of the listings were grossly deficient!  I am looking at used items and:

• seller posts a stock photo of a new item?
• sellers posted 1-2 pictures that are blurry and don't show the condition.
• sellers have zero or scant description - perhaps relying on the LONG ebay included "catalog" information?
• Listing unclear as to what essential items were included.
• sellers failing to follow ebay policy of disclosing all flaws, etc.
• Almost none reported on the history of the item

It sure appears as though the scant info provided would leave one WIDE opening to claims of NAD since descriptions are weak.  Yeah, I know, it doesn't matter in a SNAD case, buyer always wins, but is this a reason to not show the condition or an adequate description?  Is this what sellers have defaulted to under the ebay policy?  Is this acceptable?

So I ended up sending out 7 emails requesting specific information, additional pictures, etc.  I am happy to report that I got 3 replies and those were fast and responsive sellers.  {Wish I could have rewarded each of those three with a sale. } But three others - nadda. One seller promised to provide pictures the next day and failed to follow through.

One of these "no reply" sellers had their listings sell for well less than I would have paid.  I guess I should have done what most would do, buy cheap and file a SNAD if I was disappointed.  But sigh, I have a conscience and just don't work like that.

Oh and there was one seller, with just 3 feedback, who listed scant info and a stock photo.   (That in a category known to be trolled by scammer.)   Sure looked like a potential scam case waiting to happen.

Then of course I had to go in and look at feedback scores of sellers. One with 95% FB most would have passed by, but it was a low volume seller with a Neg from ONE remorse buyer.  Then there was the seller with 1,000s of FB & a rating under 98% and hundreds of Negs for INR & inappropriate behavior (pass).

So in the end, I saw an item that was in great shape but missing a few essential pictures.  Got a FAST reply from the seller with extra info and pics.  Had a few more email exchanges and ended up buying from a responsive and helpful seller!  YEAH!  They do exist! 

OK, so someone is going to retort - "Hey, you got your item and paid what you want, what is there to complain about!"  That is NOT the point of this post.

The point is that in doing what was needed to insure I avoided a "case" (doing the DD noted on these forums)  I spent over 3-hours in the buying process!  So part of the point is: what other buyer is going to spend that time and effort?  

So it is pretty easy to see how disputes arise and how a casual buyer might easily get into trouble.  Most of which appears to be avoidable by better listing practices, being responsive to buyers, etc.

Now this is generally my experience when I go looking for used items on ebay.  It is time consuming and frustrating and I can see why it might turn off other buyers.

Maybe ebay could create a peer review panel of experts to coach sellers when these kinds of deficiencies occur?  But less than stellar selling practices appear to be wide-spread.

I dunno - all fwiw!  

OK, now flame away with the personal attacks that have nothing to do with the topic at hand.  Sigh

[bubbleman2010]

First step would be to end all free listings turn it back into a pay to play site and 35% of your selling base would disappear overnight. Second knock down all completed sales information if you can't figure out what a items worth  there is really no sense in being involved in the business of buying and selling and the treasure hunters would return to ebay within a week...

[jason_incognito]

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@bubbleman2010 wrote:

First step would be to end all free listings turn it back into a pay to play site and 35% of your selling base would disappear overnight. Second knock down all completed sales information if you can't figure out what a items worth  there is really no sense in being involved in the business of buying and selling and the treasure hunters would return to ebay within a week...

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Simply tracking a seller's sell through rate would handle all of this.

If they actually sell the stuff they list it is obvious that they aren't overpriced, they aren't listing stuff nobody wants, etc.

If you sell above a certain percentage of your listings, you get to proceed as usual. If you don't, you can pay per listing and pay other minimums.

[tunicaslot]

Deficient listings - there is a back button - buyers need to use it. No one can force another person to make sufficent listings. And what may be suffiecient for some is not suffient for others.

I often garage sale. I love the listings with nice descriptions and lots of pictures about what will be put out that day. Then there are listings with just the date/time and place along with something for everyone. If one of those is in the vicinity of another sale I'm attending - I may stop by to see what they have - if I already have a full list - I skip it - same option every buyer on here has.

As jen said - we've had these discussions multiple times - but if you check any other venue you will see beautiful listings with all the t's crossed and i's dotted - then there are those with one pic - a couple of words like see pictures or size M with no measurements. Since few sellers come to these discussions or even weekly chat - there is little we can do to educate sellers. There are loads of youtube videos, blogs, pages and articles of how to identify items and what collectors and buyers look for - but if that seller decides not to do more than throw a picture up with a see picture description - what should we do??

[bubbleman2010]

ebay can't handle what they've got on their plate right now let alone tossing somemore on it. Simple solutions are the easiest to implement and get almost overnight results...

[missjen831]

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@goldguy22k wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

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I agree with you. People are more like to complain than to praise so...naturally there are more complaints here. If people want to discuss bad purchases, there is a bidding and buying board. Seems to me some just want to complain and I say—-if you can’t take it, don’t dish it. Don’t complain about sellers on the selling board and not expect to get it right back. 

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Oh Jen, there you are!  Wondered what happened to you!

I always am pleased to see your additions to a thread as they are often insightful and spot on.

That said, I think the point was missed and I think one with your experience could provide an important view point.

I'm not here to whine and complain.  Rather point out an issue: MANY deficient listings, so many sellers need to up their game. {and from the replies it appears to be as wide spread as I perceive.}

So now that we have identified an issue, should we just sit around, take sides and degenerate into wetting each others shoes in defense of our individual positions?  Or would it makes sense to identify some solutions and push for some meaningful changes that would benefit all?

but then again.... I like herding cats!  lol

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I didn’t miss the point. I think mine was missed and it’s that threads like this are redundant. (And please don’t take that as me saying we should never discuss these issues again because that’s not what I am saying at all). These very things are discussed regularly and solutions are constantly given. And obviously sellers aren’t changing if buyers have the same complaints day in and day out. My suggestion was to take a different approach. Turn a negative into a positive. Let’s hear about the good experiences, let’s hear about what sellers are doing right, so that those reading along can see what buyers like, and what is working,  in a positive environment instead of a negative one. Let’s hear what’s working for sellers rather than what’s not. All I am saying is, we can discuss the same thing over and over and if nothing is changing, let’s change the way we discuss it. Let’s not use someone else’s thread as our our platform all the time (and that’s not directed at you goldguy). 

It’s fine to discuss why you didn’t buy seller A. But maybe we could discuss why you bought from seller B instead? If that makes sense. What is about seller B that earned him the sale? Let’s talk about that too. Not just why seller A and seller C lost the sale. 

From a seller standpoint, I am more likely to listen to positivity than negativity. Other sellers are the opposite of me. And that’s how it should be because nothing here is one size fits all. 

[tunicaslot]

Just addinhg that I have a mailbox with many pms of sellers that have read this thread but what one of these seller said to me is the hard facts: " Like it not, eBay is an online flea market. No matter what eBay does, they have always been a flea market and always will be, unless they get rid of the little guys and only allow brand new goods. So knowing that, they need to cut sellers a break and stop expecting professional packing, lengthy descriptions and beautiful pictures 100% of the time." 

They wanted to say: " Some of them constantly complain about bad buying experiences and bad sellers and NEVER talk about their good experiences and the good sellers they buy from. NEVER. So they can say that there are good sellers and bad sellers all they want, it just doesn’t do them any favors or give them any extra credibility and it doesn’t make them look neutral. If all you do is complain, you are anti-seller. End of story."

As a small seller this person feels that more likely to learn from a thread in which sellers are praised, threads where GOOD experiences and GOOD packaging techniques are discussed.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

I disagree. If there is a problem with the listings these sellers are producing we want to educate the SELLERS not the buyers. Our goal is to increase positive sales, no? Not to drive away good buyers.

I also SO DO NOT agree that the latest agenda here is all sellers are scammers. I have no idea where you are getting this idea from. Not from this thread. Nobody in here talked about scamming sellers, only ones who do not take enough time. I think you are overly sensitive about this.

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Thank you!  I didn't start this thread here but I support the OP doing so, as you do.  The OP is trying to address sellers in hopes of reaching those who are part of the problem~and this may just be the help that a poster who comes here needs but does not know it.  A pat on the head and blaming the buyer, and stifling discussion because it must be their fault is, and telling them they have made wrong decisions to buy here is ..illogical.  None of this is meant to discourage anyone who is not part of the problem~but as with all the threads on sales being down and that is  Ebay's fault~it is not all Ebay's fault.  This OP very carefully vets the listings and the sellers~as do I~as do all the sellers as buyers who have posted of these issues before I ever did.  In fact, a poster here said they doubted most buyers put that much effort into it!  IF most buyers don't put that much effort into, the possibility of true SNADs is that much greater.  That shows you that it is NOT the buyer, but the sellers that he is encountering and many times there is no way to be aware of that if the seller, as instructed on this Board, has called incessantly to get the honest neg removed.

All problems do not stem from the buyer.  I have said that there are scamming buyers and scamming sellers; that all buyers are not scammers~all sellers are not scammers.   

I'm sure it is frustrating to know that there are so many instances of this happening and that it can hurt everyone's sales, but it is what it is.

[castlemagicmemories]

My experience with buying on eBay is that it's like the little girl with the little curl right in the middle of her forehead:  when it's good it's very very good, but when it's bad it's horrid.

Great analogy.

[totoro470]

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@bubbleman2010 wrote:

First step would be to end all free listings turn it back into a pay to play site and 35% of your selling base would disappear overnight. Second knock down all completed sales information if you can't figure out what a items worth  there is really no sense in being involved in the business of buying and selling and the treasure hunters would return to ebay within a week...

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I think the second part is a terrible idea IMO. Everything is tracked online, even if ebay doesn't do it. Sites like worthpoint would become a requirement- an added expense for no reason. Also I don't agree even if sellers couldn't use worthpoint- many items that are considered treasures are rare enough that treasure hunters will come here anyways- I mean, where else can they go? Also, wouldn't it be more likely that other dealers would buy anything priced too low and end up listing them for the correct value? Especially since ebay has alerts and things like that.

[tunicaslot]

Obviously many of we sellers think the same!

I learned a lot from these boards and I've learned even more watching the vloggers but that's because I care and want to be a better seller. The information given here has helped me branch out into other areas. I would have never attempted to sell a globe I bought at garage sale except that retose talked about how to pack breakables using foam insulation and garbage bags to ship.

[missjen831]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@goldguy22k wrote:

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@missjen831 wrote:

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I agree with you. People are more like to complain than to praise so...naturally there are more complaints here. If people want to discuss bad purchases, there is a bidding and buying board. Seems to me some just want to complain and I say—-if you can’t take it, don’t dish it. Don’t complain about sellers on the selling board and not expect to get it right back. 

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Oh Jen, there you are!  Wondered what happened to you!

I always am pleased to see your additions to a thread as they are often insightful and spot on.

That said, I think the point was missed and I think one with your experience could provide an important view point.

I'm not here to whine and complain.  Rather point out an issue: MANY deficient listings, so many sellers need to up their game. {and from the replies it appears to be as wide spread as I perceive.}

So now that we have identified an issue, should we just sit around, take sides and degenerate into wetting each others shoes in defense of our individual positions?  Or would it makes sense to identify some solutions and push for some meaningful changes that would benefit all?

but then again.... I like herding cats!  lol

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I didn’t miss the point. I think mine was missed and it’s that threads like this are redundant. (And please don’t take that as me saying we should never discuss these issues again because that’s not what I am saying at all). These very things are discussed regularly and solutions are constantly given. And obviously sellers aren’t changing if buyers have the same complaints day in and day out. My suggestion was to take a different approach. Turn a negative into a positive. Let’s hear about the good experiences, let’s hear about what sellers are doing right, so that those reading along can see what buyers like, and what is working,  in a positive environment instead of a negative one. Let’s hear what’s working for sellers rather than what’s not. All I am saying is, we can discuss the same thing over and over and if nothing is changing, let’s change the way we discuss it. Let’s not use someone else’s thread as our our platform all the time (and that’s not directed at you goldguy). 

It’s fine to discuss why you didn’t buy seller A. But maybe we could discuss why you bought from seller B instead? If that makes sense. What is about seller B that earned him the sale? Let’s talk about that too. Not just why seller A and seller C lost the sale. 

From a seller standpoint, I am more likely to listen to positivity than negativity. Other sellers are the opposite of me. And that’s how it should be because nothing here is one size fits all. 

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And laugh all you want but after posting that reply above, these lyrics popped up in my head.  Pretty relevant in my humble opinion. Applies to buyers and sellers.

We gotta make a change
It's time for us as a people to start making some changes
Let's change the way we eat, let's change the way we live
And let's change the way we treat each other
You see the old way wasn't working
So it's on us to do what we gotta do to survive

[goldguy22k]

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@auctionpet wrote:

You had me, until you stated this.....

Almost none reported on the history of the item

 Most items posted here, sellers don't know the history of, if your referring to prior ownership. A seller isn't required to disclose where they purchased the item, nor would it necessarily help in selling the item. I'm not about to reveal the source of my items, if I'm the longtime original owner of an item I may state this,  if this is what you mean by history. If you mean how an item is actually relevant in history, a buyer looking for the item would likely already know this. I've seen listings where the seller gives a history lesson about the item, which they obviously stole from Wikipedia or another source, when all I want are the item facts/condition, which they tend to omit.

Looking further, about half had prices that were 50% or more higher than the average of recent sales and most of these were BIN with no BO associated.

Unless items are exactly identical, incuding condition. You shouldn't expect all prices to be identical. Often those that sold cheaply are from sellers who don't care about getting the true worth of the item or the item is in less than desirable condition or missing components. You also need to be sure your including shipping cost when evaluating prices. I price my items based on their worth/condition, I don't price them higher or lower because of another sellers sale price, I don't have time to review every single item that sold and evaluate their photos and description, if they even bothered to provide one. Granted, there are many sellers that dramatically overprice their items and way too many claiming their Rare or Hard to Find, which is quite comical when your see plenty of them listed!

No doubt, there are plenty of sellers whose quality of listings and photos bring down the overall appeal of wanting to buy here. Since this isn't a vetted site, with the doors open to anyone to sell, there's not much that can be done to change this, nor can I imagine ebay wants to, as they want as many sales as possible.

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OK, I am with you! I'll add a bit to clarify what I did, if that helps in understanding the frustration and desire to see things changed.

OK, as far as history goes, I think it is important to have some idea as to whether the seller is listing an item they bought new or inherited or if it is from a third party source.  No one is asking anyone to reveale their sourcing information in a listing, just indicate what you know of the history:  I owned it, it was my relative's item, I got it from a third party source.  All of that is helpful to a seller when determining condition, etc. and making a buying decision.  

As far as identical items goes..... In my example, YES!  All of the items were EXACTLY indentical!  The search terms I used were specfic and focused (manufacturer, brand, model, etc.).  So yes, it was an apples to apples comparison.   Sure there were essential bits that some included and others did not, but that was not what appeared to drive the division in price.  Just 17 of the 34 listings of apples to apples had prices that were 50% higher.  Since there were plenty of nice, great condition items in the lower tier, not sure why I'd pay the premium, so I started there.  Perhaps there is a quality difference in service or something else, and if that is the case then something needs to chage (or I need an education) so that the distinction can be made.

I did however, end up buying from a seller who intially had a "deficient" listing - missing a few essentail pictures.  But because that seller provided the pics fast and was responsive to other questions, etc., that seller won my vote of dollars. So in the end, I got a good quality item, but was willing to pay a "premium" over the "average price" in that lower tier.  But in no way did I pay anywhere near that 50% premium that half of the sellers asked for.

On price -  when ebay shopping, I consider the "out the door" price of purchases.  Which often means that one has to create a spreadsheet to keep track of cost (price, shipping & delivery times), so that one is evaluating total cost across the board.  Which is better, one dudes price of $70 and $100 S&H or another dudes price of $170 with free shipping! ?  LOL! 

[castlemagicmemories]

I have bought here heavily for twenty years.  In the beginning, with nary a problem.  As others have said, the longer you are on ebay, the more you are aware that the frequency of these issues is increasing and that is discouraging buyers.  That does not mean you have changed, that does not mean that you have made bad decisions.  The frequency of being disappointed, having to take pictures and brace yourself for the seller's reaction is alarming.  I have had many wonderful transactions on Ebay, made some great friends, and it's been great.  I don't like negativity either.  I prefer positivity~and I care about what happens to Ebay and the good sellers that are here.  That's what this OP is trying to do.  Somehow it has always been more acceptable when posts like this are from sellers as buyers.  It's sad that even in the OP, the OP fully expected to be flamed for what he said.

[jason_incognito]

I can tell you that it used to be that buying glass I'd get 60% or 70% boxes filled with peanuts. Now it might be 10%......

[missjen831]

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:

I have bought here heavily for twenty years.  In the beginning, with nary a problem.  As others have said, the longer you are on ebay, the more you are aware that the frequency of these issues is increasing and that is discouraging buyers.  That does not mean you have changed, that does not mean that you have made bad decisions.  The frequency of being disappointed, having to take pictures and brace yourself for the seller's reaction is alarming.  I have had many wonderful transactions on Ebay, made some great friends, and it's been great.  I don't like negativity either.  I prefer positivity~and I care about what happens to Ebay and the good sellers that are here.  That's what this OP is trying to do.  Somehow it has always been more acceptable when posts like this are from sellers as buyers.  It's sad that even in the OP, the OP fully expected to be flamed for what he said.

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The OP is a seller and nobody flamed him here so I'm not sure what the bolded part means?