eBay

goldguy22k · ‎10-22-2018

OK, so I am using what could be considered an inflammatory style in the title, but am looking for rational discussion as I am pointing out issues and places where there could be improvement. There is no "quick fix" solution - just things buyers should do or do better. So offering this up as insight, from a buyer's perspective. So yeah, if you want to look at my feedback or go ahead and make assumptions or attacks, I guess that is your "right." Sigh. But I am just offering insight in hopes a few other sellers might learn from my experience as a buyer.

Recently, I needed to replace an item that I use frequently. So being an ebay seller too, I came here looking to buy. I had in my mind an amount I was willing to pay and searched out recent sales and confirmed I was in the right ball park. Adjusted my amount a bit.

So I entered my search criteria and ebay's algorithm returned 53 items. On closer inspection 19 items (36%! ) were irrelevant. (....and some say there is "throttling?" ) The irrelevant items were items associated with what I wanted but not the exact item. (I used an exact name/info search) So down to 34 listing to consider.

Looking further, about half had prices that were 50% or more higher than the average of recent sales and most of these were BIN with no BO associated. So I looked at the remaining 17 closely. This is where the "fun" begins.

Now what follows is included should anyone wish to understand what a buyer "sees" and experiences.

So the fun is that HALF of the listings were grossly deficient! I am looking at used items and:

seller posts a stock photo of a new item?
sellers posted 1-2 pictures that are blurry and don't show the condition.
sellers have zero or scant description - perhaps relying on the LONG ebay included "catalog" information?
Listing unclear as to what essential items were included.
sellers failing to follow ebay policy of disclosing all flaws, etc.
Almost none reported on the history of the item

It sure appears as though the scant info provided would leave one WIDE opening to claims of NAD since descriptions are weak. Yeah, I know, it doesn't matter in a SNAD case, buyer always wins, but is this a reason to not show the condition or an adequate description? Is this what sellers have defaulted to under the ebay policy? Is this acceptable?

So I ended up sending out 7 emails requesting specific information, additional pictures, etc. I am happy to report that I got 3 replies and those were fast and responsive sellers. {Wish I could have rewarded each of those three with a sale. } But three others - nadda. One seller promised to provide pictures the next day and failed to follow through.

One of these "no reply" sellers had their listings sell for well less than I would have paid. I guess I should have done what most would do, buy cheap and file a SNAD if I was disappointed. But sigh, I have a conscience and just don't work like that.

Oh and there was one seller, with just 3 feedback, who listed scant info and a stock photo. (That in a category known to be trolled by scammer.) Sure looked like a potential scam case waiting to happen.

Then of course I had to go in and look at feedback scores of sellers. One with 95% FB most would have passed by, but it was a low volume seller with a Neg from ONE remorse buyer. Then there was the seller with 1,000s of FB & a rating under 98% and hundreds of Negs for INR & inappropriate behavior (pass).

So in the end, I saw an item that was in great shape but missing a few essential pictures. Got a FAST reply from the seller with extra info and pics. Had a few more email exchanges and ended up buying from a responsive and helpful seller! YEAH! They do exist!

OK, so someone is going to retort - "Hey, you got your item and paid what you want, what is there to complain about!" That is NOT the point of this post.

The point is that in doing what was needed to insure I avoided a "case" (doing the DD noted on these forums) I spent over 3-hours in the buying process! So part of the point is: what other buyer is going to spend that time and effort?

So it is pretty easy to see how disputes arise and how a casual buyer might easily get into trouble. Most of which appears to be avoidable by better listing practices, being responsive to buyers, etc.

Now this is generally my experience when I go looking for used items on ebay. It is time consuming and frustrating and I can see why it might turn off other buyers.

Maybe ebay could create a peer review panel of experts to coach sellers when these kinds of deficiencies occur? But less than stellar selling practices appear to be wide-spread.

I dunno - all fwiw!

OK, now flame away with the personal attacks that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Sigh

threshold.sales.group · ‎10-22-2018

So no straw man arguement here at all~and I pointed out that low price does not merit or rationalize an inaccurate or inadequate listing. Just a logical conclusion from your post.
If as a buyer folks want to purchase for lower cost than than official distribution channels then that will require doing some digging and putting up with some hassles. ~the inference being that the low price absolves the seller of the responsibility of creating an adequate listing.. If the listing were adequate, you wouldn't need to do digging or have hassles.

Sorry, but you simply inferred wrong. Full stop.

"low price absolves the seller of the responsibility of creating an adequate listing."

I never wrote that and certainly don't believe it for a second. An inference you make is being **made up by you** and is not what anybody wrote.

It just might be possible that yes, sellers *are* fully responsible for creating quality, accurate listings. Every listing should have multiple pictures and good descriptions. But as a buyer knowing human nature and the basic laws of economics, when I go shopping for items significantly below the going market price I know the odds of a less than perfect transaction greatly increase. So getting an attack of the vapors over a deep discount purchase going south seems a bit silly to me. We have to live in the real world - no magic thinking allowed.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

You state that "If as a buyer folks want to purchase for lower cost than than official distribution channels then that will require doing some digging and putting up with some hassles. '

You go on to state this is guaranteed.

Yet you say this does not mean that low price absolve the seller of the responsiblity of creating an adequate listing.

If it didn't, you would not be saying that you should expect to dig and put up with some hassles or that it was guaranteed that that digging and hassle would be put of the experience of low price listings.

No magic thinking~knowing that low price does not mandate a sub par listing, and that it does not absolve a seller of the responsibility to create an adequate listing, if for no other reason than their own protection for costly SNADs. I doubt every seller of low cost items feels compelled to put up a sub par listing just because the price is low.

We can agree to disagree.

goldguy22k · ‎10-22-2018

@threshold.sales.group wrote:

It just might be possible that yes, sellers *are* fully responsible for creating quality, accurate listings. Every listing should have multiple pictures and good descriptions. But as a buyer knowing human nature and the basic laws of economics, when I go shopping for items significantly below the going market price I know the odds of a less than perfect transaction greatly increase. So getting an attack of the vapors over a deep discount purchase going south seems a bit silly to me. We have to live in the real world - no magic thinking allowed.

I think you two kind people are going to have to agree to disagree! <grin>

From this chair, I think ebay would be a far better place if sellers were held to a higher standard. Just my opinion. I believe some upgrades to sellers overall could bring back more buyers than advertising or creating a catalog. Why attract buyers to a place where nearly 50% of listings were SNADs in waiting? How does that help the longevity of the site?

But please be clear that what I observed in my original post is the good sellers DO exist! I did end up purchasing from a seller who initially had a deficient listing, BUT was super fast in responding & correcting those deficiencies and extremely polite about doing so. So I rewarded the seller with a "vote with my dollars." In fact, in all of the tracking I did, I paid a substantial premium over "the average" sale from the deficient listings. (I was glad to do so due to perceived quality and responsive, engaged & friendly seller)

This is where I think too many sellers and buyers go - focusing on price to the exclusion of quality/service. After all, how does Nordstroms stay in business & compete with Wally World and Target? But then again, I guess I am a sellers worst nightmare: want good quality, want to know up front what I am buying and willing to pay for quality & service. Sigh.

As a follow-on, I noted that deficient listings either didn't sell or sold substantially less that non-deficient listings. So "the market" did indeed act effectively and those sellers that were lazy or unwilling to go the extra mile, did indeed pay a price - their items didn't sell or sold for substantially less!

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

Beat you to it! I already agreed to disagree!

You are not a seller's nightmare~it is not unreasonable to expect good quality, and to know what you are buying~and many buyers will pay more for a better quality item.

There is nothing wrong focusing on price~as good prices may be had without the exclusion of an adequate, accurate listing with all the info a buyer needs to make an informed buying decision in it.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

@annasunicorns wrote:
^I love ebay for that as a buyer, I admit. You can get amazing prices on occaision. For those kinds of items I ask no questions I just guage its relative worth and buy. If its disappointing, I resell it myself, and take the loss as part of the cost of getting first dibs on a possible unicorn. 🙂

Apologies as this is somewhat off topic but your post reminded me of this. You state, you can get amazing prices on occasion. For those kinds of items I ask no questions, I just gauge its' relative worth and buy.

I saw a listing once for a beautiful 8 piece imported European Style Glass ornament set, very reasonable. New seller. No measurements. Instead of asking, I judged as to what the size probably would be, because they would be fine whatever size they were, and put in my bid towards the end of the listing and won. I paid.

When the items arrived, I received several boxes that day, and opening the first box, found several ornaments were missing. Disappointed and thinking this is what happens with a new seller, I then realized the other boxes were from this same seller. The glass ornaments were MUCH larger than I had thought, and were really quite impressive and an incredible buy! The seller packed well and all arrived intact.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

I've received a porcelain doll and a fragile, rare, vintage porcelain figurine in poly mailer envelopes.

Bought an artificial jack o'lantern that came wrapped in bubble wrap and covered with fragile stickers. If it needs all those fragile stickers, it should have come in a box.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-22-2018

@beckytaylor1984 wrote:
Perhaps that seller that said they would send you more pics the next day forgot?! I've done it! Surprise, we're human!

So are buyers but if they forget, they may be considered irresponsible or a scammer.

mrv71 · ‎10-22-2018

The problem with eBay sellers that majority of good sellers left, disgusted by eBay anti-seller policies and harassment. The ones that are still here are either new and don't know abolutely anything, or just don't know what it means to be a good seller. If I see unsufficient description and bad pictures, I usually don't even bother to ask a question, becuase I know it's unlikely it will be answered, or a person simply hasn't get a clue.

castlemagicmemories · ‎10-23-2018

Many good sellers have left, but I can't say that problematic sellers are all new.

Some are TRS sellers with many transactions. Others may not be TRS but still have many transactions. You can't tell what you may be getting into as the feedback has been scrubbed. Having had honest negs removed, that did not violate any feedback policies, I know this to be true, and others have posted that they no longer trust 100% feedback sellers, knowing that this may be the case.

Many buyers don't bother to ask questions any longer, they just hit the back button.

yuzuha · ‎10-23-2018

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:
Jeez, I'm not expecting world class service. Walmart level service would be nice. I agree with the OP, there are too many lazy sellers on here. In my category those lazy sellers expect more money than I sell for on my speciality full service website. They throw up a few fuzzy pictures of a dirty item without any kind of description or effort at all.

So from what I'm seeing and I buy a LOT, many Ebay sellers now want to provide thrift store level service but want Neiman Marcus pricing.

Exactly. If you want to get good prices, you need to show buyers why the item is worth the price you're asking for it, which means well-lit, clear photos (as many as necessary) and an adequate description. I once had a potential buyer message me to ask me if the item in the pictures was the actual one they were going to be receiving. When I told them it was, they bought it right away. I got a sale because I took good enough photos of the item in question to make the buyer satisfied that it was exactly what they wanted... how many sellers have LOST sales because of poor-quality photos?

tunicaslot · ‎10-23-2018

The agenda lately has been that many sellers here are scammers. While I agree there are some - we only hear about negative experiences here - not positive ones. I've had negligant sellers - but the bulk of my purchases here go off without a hitch - fast shipping, item as described and pleasant communication. Just because we see more threads about a bad purchase - does not mean there are any more now than we've had in the past - they are just being talked about now as are many other topics in society that never were in the limelight.

These threads need to be on the buying board - not the selling board as it negates the purpose of helping sellers with problems sellers run into. The sellers that are responsibile for these these - do not come here - and these rants do nothing but lower the moral of good honest sellers here.

Life isn't perfect - you run into situations occasionally that are frustrating. You don't use other venues - so have no insight on the problems that exist there. You only hear about the dissatisfaction on this platform. I've stepped back from posting here due to all the seller bashing and the single minded agendas of some. I've been researching more about the other platforms - talking to sellers nd buyers on those and they have the same gripes. Those with better seller protection often deter buyers from purchasing there because when they do run into a problem - the platforms favoring sellers - turn a deaf ear to the buyers - even in legitimate SNADs. Buyers have the MBG here - they don't on many other venues.

If buyers are receiving too many SNADs here - then maybe they better weigh their options more carefully. Ebay is not the only game in town - but for me it's the best one.

No one is dismissing anything - we have all agreed that there are bad sellers here as well as bad buyers. You often state people don't see what you say and I'll throw that back at you - because you don't see that most of us concur that both bad buyers and bad sellers exist. We don't have to be told continually that this is happening - we see it, hear it and experience it - but..... the % of good experiences here far outweigh the bad for most. If yours don't then that's a situation you have to figure out for yourself on why it's happening - people are ditching their collectibles - they have little knowledge on what a true collector wants or expects. If they don't have sufficient descriptions or don't answer questions - there is a back button - there is no reason to purchase and hope for the best. Some people make their own problems.

the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth · ‎10-23-2018

I disagree. If there is a problem with the listings these sellers are producing we want to educate the SELLERS not the buyers. Our goal is to increase positive sales, no? Not to drive away good buyers.

I also SO DO NOT agree that the latest agenda here is all sellers are scammers. I have no idea where you are getting this idea from. Not from this thread. Nobody in here talked about scamming sellers, only ones who do not take enough time. I think you are overly sensitive about this.

sapphireseal · ‎10-23-2018

My experience with buying on eBay is that it's like the little girl with the little curl right in the middle of her forehead: when it's good it's very very good, but when it's bad it's horrid.

When I'm looking to buy a new item, I go to Amazon. Not so much because Amazon's SELLERS are any better, but because it is less of a pain in the butt, due to how Amazon displays its items. Let's say you are interested in a "Settlers of Catan" (board game) expansion set. On eBay: have fun sorting through all the listings of the 'main' board game. On Amazon: Easy to find, one listing per different item.

On the flip side, Amazon is lousy for buying vintage items. Because if I'm buying an item made in 1976, I want a picture of THAT SPECIFIC ITEM so I can judge its flaws and condition . . . and if there are three for sale, I want to see pictures of EACH of them. Amazon is not set up for that, Amazon wants to show a stock photo and a general description because their assumption is that you are buying something new.

Now I am not saying it's all sunshine and roses for new items on Amazon . . . The sellers there are real price-gougers when an item gets into low stock. Like, I get that a retails-for-$10 toy from last year is no longer as abundant, but that doesn't mean someone is going to pay $77 for it.

As far as the quality of sellers on eBay, the ones I've dealt with have been fine. Fast service, well-described items typically. That said, I don't buy clothing off eBay (not going to buy clothing I can't try on first unless it's like a scarf) or things like that, so maybe that's a different experience. Usually I buy collectibles.

tunicaslot · ‎10-23-2018

dog - sorry to disagree with you - but the sellers we need to educate - don't often come here and you know that. The few that do are seldom interested in taking any critiques or advice from the members here to improve their listings so that buyers can buy with confidence.

As far as the agenda - it's on many threads - and it often deviates from the original thread concern. Many of us have noticed it and have been concerned about it. Certain people continue to insert how many sellers are scammers into their responses. While that is true - again - you are not talking about the majority of se4llers and it's not 50/50.

I've made mistakes and taken responsibility for them. I'm sure my buyers were disappointed also and I offer discounts and apology profusely. A mistake I make weighs heavily on me as I try to provide buyers with excellent customer service - but we are all human. And just because I disappointed someone - does not mean I continue to disappoint every other buyer that comes along. I am sensitive to the fact that some people are giving sellers a bad name here - just as some sellers call buyers scammers for mistakes that are sometime just that - honest mistakes. We all were newbies at some point.

goldguy22k · ‎10-23-2018

@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:
I disagree. If there is a problem with the listings these sellers are producing we want to educate the SELLERS not the buyers. Our goal is to increase positive sales, no? Not to drive away good buyers.

I also SO DO NOT agree that the latest agenda here is all sellers are scammers. I have no idea where you are getting this idea from. Not from this thread. Nobody in here talked about scamming sellers, only ones who do not take enough time. I think you are overly sensitive about this.

Now this "dude" gets it!

Wish we could steer this thread in the direction of suggestions or SOLUTIONS on "how to" educate sellers and raise the overall bar, thus making ebay a better place for all.

Then again, I'm a fan of hearding cats!