eBay

terrycanarsky · ‎08-15-2018

Monday, we had a buyer contact us and say that the item we shipped in June was not the same thing as what he'd ordered. He realized that he was a bit late, but he'd been out of town for the month and not opened the package until the past Saturday. Please send a prepaid label and refund him in full.

Uh, no.

I responded that I was sorry, but we'd shipped at the end of June, he'd received the item on July 2, and it was now well past the return window according to both our policy and eBay. After his second message, pretty much reiterating what he'd said in the first, I called Merchant Support. As this buyer was adamant on a refund (not unpleasant, just assertive), this felt like it could be a returns case in the making.

According to eBay policy, if the buyer opened a case such as this, well past the 30 day mark, it would be closed in our favor. But it would still count as a defect against us in the new seller metrics. The MSR actually did her research on the question (would it count) and had to call back --- because the policy makers at eBay had apparently never considered a situation such as this.

Luckily, after I requested the buyer to send a photo of the item he received since the part number he gave (as the incorrect part he got) was not something we even had in our database, least of all listed, he wrote back with multiple apologies. The incorrect item had actually come from another seller, and there was a problem. What he got from us was fine.

Lesson from the story: Even when it's not a seller's fault, it's the seller's fault. Perpetually the seller's fault. No big surprise to most of us who've been slogging through the more recent eBay shenanigans.

~M

goodluckselling · ‎08-15-2018

@the_fancy_fox wrote:

I think it’s more than likely that down the line will these be used in a one year look back to increase the fees 4% if you exceed you super secret peer group.

It is not down the line. eBay already says that defects are reviewed going back one year for sellers unless they have 400 transactions or more in 90 days then it will go back 90 days instead of one year.

I am not sure about your suggestion about the 4% if you exceed your peer group? The 4% increase in FVF is when you go below standard in your seller rating not peer comparision evaulations.

If you look at your seller dashboard returns is not even part of the seller rating formula. It is in a section by itself.

Good Luck Selling!

goodluckselling · ‎08-15-2018

@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:
The concern then is staying on the upper end of your peer group. Do you see what ebay has just done again? Enabled the buyer to squeeze money out of the seller after the sale whenever they want. Will all ebay sellers cave? No. Will many? Yep...they will get scared about their metrics, and those that don't give another piece of themselves away to the buyer will be penalized with 4% higher fees.
Ebay is basically saying--the buyer wants it at this price, and the buyer now gets to set the price. Think about it.

Returns are not part of the seller rating formula. Look at your dashboard and you can clearly see this.

Good Luck Selling!

the_fancy_fox · ‎08-15-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:
@the_fancy_fox wrote:

I think it’s more than likely that down the line will these be used in a one year look back to increase the fees 4% if you exceed you super secret peer group.

It is not down the line. eBay already says that defects are reviewed going back one year for sellers unless they have 400 transactions or more in 90 days then it will go back 90 days instead of one year.

I am not sure about your suggestion about the 4% if you exceed your peer group? The 4% increase in FVF is when you go below standard in your seller rating not peer comparision evaulations.

If you look at your seller dashboard returns is not even part of the seller rating formula. It is in a section by itself.

Good Luck Selling!

Wait for it. It will happen. Anyway possible to get more fees out of a seller.

The Race is over
The Rats won.

tellmemama · ‎08-15-2018

Okay so all requested get counted into the account total which I agree is happening but it also shows that for example - if a seller gets 25 return requests and 20 of them are for remorse reason or never actually returned, do you think eBay can see this and understand this seller is not describing wrong?

eBay has told us many times whenever action is taken against a sellers because of the account rating it is reviewed by account specialist to make sure all the details is considered.

Except we all know most decisions are clearly made by bots with no human eyes seeing anything. Then the seller gets to play the "appeal the decision" game and frequently loses. Only those who squawk loudly enough on the boards might manage to summon a blue who will then say it should not have been decided that way. And subsequently fix it. Or not.

Frankly I'm a little surprised. You've been here long enough to know how things work.

Joe

goodluckselling · ‎08-15-2018

@tellmemama wrote:
Okay so all requested get counted into the account total which I agree is happening but it also shows that for example - if a seller gets 25 return requests and 20 of them are for remorse reason or never actually returned, do you think eBay can see this and understand this seller is not describing wrong?

eBay has told us many times whenever action is taken against a sellers because of the account rating it is reviewed by account specialist to make sure all the details is considered.

Except we all know most decisions are clearly made by bots with no human eyes seeing anything. Then the seller gets to play the "appeal the decision" game and frequently loses. Only those who squawk loudly enough on the boards might manage to summon a blue who will then say it should not have been decided that way. And subsequently fix it. Or not.

Frankly I'm a little surprised. You've been here long enough to know how things work.

Wrong. You do not know that most decisions are made by bots. I am the one who is frankly surprised that you would hold into this conspiracy as if it has value?

When eBay decides on a case they send you a message saying. We have reviewed and made a decision. This is consistant with what eBay has told us they would do.

Nothing about our automated system has detected enough info to rule against or in favor of you as a seller.

Good Luck Selling!

zamo-zuan · ‎08-15-2018

@terrycanarsky wrote:
Monday, we had a buyer contact us and say that the item we shipped in June was not the same thing as what he'd ordered. He realized that he was a bit late, but he'd been out of town for the month and not opened the package until the past Saturday. Please send a prepaid label and refund him in full.

Uh, no.

I responded that I was sorry, but we'd shipped at the end of June, he'd received the item on July 2, and it was now well past the return window according to both our policy and eBay. After his second message, pretty much reiterating what he'd said in the first, I called Merchant Support. As this buyer was adamant on a refund (not unpleasant, just assertive), this felt like it could be a returns case in the making.

According to eBay policy, if the buyer opened a case such as this, well past the 30 day mark, it would be closed in our favor. But it would still count as a defect against us in the new seller metrics. The MSR actually did her research on the question (would it count) and had to call back --- because the policy makers at eBay had apparently never considered a situation such as this.

Luckily, after I requested the buyer to send a photo of the item he received since the part number he gave (as the incorrect part he got) was not something we even had in our database, least of all listed, he wrote back with multiple apologies. The incorrect item had actually come from another seller, and there was a problem. What he got from us was fine.

Lesson from the story: Even when it's not a seller's fault, it's the seller's fault. Perpetually the seller's fault. No big surprise to most of us who've been slogging through the more recent eBay shenanigans.

~M

Yeah... the new policies are definitely problematic with returns as a whole. Both for defects, and return reason.

It's seemingly an intentional way of pushing 4% FVF's penalty on more users, as any "honest" or "fair" policy that would punish sellers for performance, would actually give them a way to PROVE they did the right thing, and in return, prevent any penalty.

It's in the buyers hands to determine if the sellers should be punished, and their decision completely overrides all evidence. That is ridiculous, and as mentioned... makes it seemingly that things are intentionally this way.

I question if they even realize how significant 4% is. 4% of a sellers margin is huge. It basically means you can no longer compete.

If they really want to compete with Amazon, making sellers pay higher FVF's, along with having to do things like free returns... is only making eBay's prices HIGHER and LESS competitive.

If this continues for another couple months, after what I'm sure is going to be a very roller coaster September... I will definitely be convinced that eBay is actively trying to destroy themselves.

goodluckselling · ‎08-15-2018

@zamo-zuan wrote:
@terrycanarsky wrote:

~M
Yeah... the new policies are definitely problematic with returns as a whole. Both for defects, and return reason.

It's seemingly an intentional way of pushing 4% FVF's penalty on more users, as any "honest" or "fair" policy that would punish sellers for performance, would actually give them a way to PROVE they did the right thing, and in return, prevent any penalty.

Returns are not part of the seller rating formula. You can see this for yourself by reviewing the seller dashboard. Returns are in there own section away from the seller rating areas.

Good Luck Selling!

zamo-zuan · ‎08-15-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:
@zamo-zuan wrote:
@terrycanarsky wrote:

~M
Yeah... the new policies are definitely problematic with returns as a whole. Both for defects, and return reason.

It's seemingly an intentional way of pushing 4% FVF's penalty on more users, as any "honest" or "fair" policy that would punish sellers for performance, would actually give them a way to PROVE they did the right thing, and in return, prevent any penalty.
Returns are not part of the seller rating formula. You can see this for yourself by reviewing the seller dashboard. Returns are in there own section away from the seller rating areas.

Good Luck Selling!

The 4% FVF's are not related to seller rating formula, so I'm not sure how that applies here?

The FVF increase is directly related to return reason, and as discussed by OP, not being able to remove a defect created by the seller, is problematic.

It's not possible to have a fair policy for this, without giving CSR's the ability to correct return reasons, or remove defects, in cases that sellers provide proof.

chrispycritter007 · ‎08-15-2018

A 4% increase in FVF represents 40% more in eBay's pocket. Something sells for $100, used to pay $10 FVF, now $14... eBay makes 40% more. Easy money grab especially when sellers have NO CONTROL over buyers who open returns for the wrong reason. And why not? They can save on shipping both ways.

This 40% increase is pushing more and more sellers elsewhere. Why sell here when there are so many ways to get punished? Refunding shipping both ways, run the risk of a return being damaged because the buyer doesn't know how to pack correctly, higher FVFs, item out of circulation for weeks while the buyer wears it out... etc etc. A boon for other sites.

tunicaslot · ‎08-15-2018

According to the blues - what is counting against a seller that may determine they receive an increase in their FVFs is any opened requests for SNAD - not all returns. But to me this is problematic as even tho I had a false SNAD closed in my favor - it still counts against me because the buyer opened the req as an SNAD.

I asked - with knowing how many false returns sellers receive - something like this could be counted and was told - they know this happens and it's been figured into the formula - which I find hard to believe knowing the high rate of SNAD returns alone in clothes because a buyer does not want to pay return shipping - but whatever.

That's why people should not have all their eggs in one basket!

newview · ‎08-15-2018

@tellmemama wrote:

... or SNAD where the buyer never returns the item. Those are all going to be counted according to the blues. No they aren't defects. No they aren't cases. But they are going to be used when compared to the nebulous peer groups ...

And THAT metric is the STUPIDEST policy eBay has set in the entire Fall Update.

For them to give a defect to a seller in an instance where a buyer who starts a return (as a way to attempt to leverage a partial reimbursement), and the seller refuses to play that game, and approves the return, sometimes going so far as to send a return label ... and then NO RETURN of the item happens, because the buyer never intended to return the item in the first place, is tantamount to eBay assisting the buyer in punishing the seller FOR NOTHING.

It’s just a plain ridiculous short-sighted policy ... typical of myopic eBay.

/sheesh eBay ... where IS your common sense?

I'm ̶p̶r̶e̶t̶t̶y̶ ̶s̶u̶r̶e̶ certain the lunatics have taken over the asylum.

tellmemama · ‎08-15-2018

Wrong. You do not know that most decisions are made by bots. I am the one who is frankly surprised that you would hold into this conspiracy as if it has value?

When eBay decides on a case they send you a message saying. We have reviewed and made a decision. This is consistant with what eBay has told us they would do.

Nothing about our automated system has detected enough info to rule against or in favor of you as a seller.

When there is post after post from sellers who have had decisions ruled against them clearly made by bots only to have the blues like trinton chime in saying it should never have been decided that way then it gets passed on to an actual set of eyes, I'm gonna say yes I do hold onto this theory of bots. Do you also suppose those "top tips for selling your items on eBay" emails are individually typed for each seller too?

Regardless of what either of us think, the thread is veering off topic. So to recap, returns of any kind are being counted in the metric. Including those that shouldn't. Which can and will be used against the seller one way or another. You can be ok with that. I'm not.

It is imperitive to fight each and every one.

Joe

ersatz_sobriquet · ‎08-15-2018

@tellmemama I wish Joe, but we have been told that CS no longer has the power or instruction to ever help us with this issue and no longer can under any circumstances reverse the outcome.

calistas_closet33 · ‎08-15-2018

The day I get a premium FVF tacked on due to remorse returns will be the day I completely close. That will be the final straw, if it happens before the day I am not allowed to use paypal..wonder which will happen first 🤔