eBay

terrycanarsky · ‎08-15-2018

Monday, we had a buyer contact us and say that the item we shipped in June was not the same thing as what he'd ordered. He realized that he was a bit late, but he'd been out of town for the month and not opened the package until the past Saturday. Please send a prepaid label and refund him in full.

Uh, no.

I responded that I was sorry, but we'd shipped at the end of June, he'd received the item on July 2, and it was now well past the return window according to both our policy and eBay. After his second message, pretty much reiterating what he'd said in the first, I called Merchant Support. As this buyer was adamant on a refund (not unpleasant, just assertive), this felt like it could be a returns case in the making.

According to eBay policy, if the buyer opened a case such as this, well past the 30 day mark, it would be closed in our favor. But it would still count as a defect against us in the new seller metrics. The MSR actually did her research on the question (would it count) and had to call back --- because the policy makers at eBay had apparently never considered a situation such as this.

Luckily, after I requested the buyer to send a photo of the item he received since the part number he gave (as the incorrect part he got) was not something we even had in our database, least of all listed, he wrote back with multiple apologies. The incorrect item had actually come from another seller, and there was a problem. What he got from us was fine.

Lesson from the story: Even when it's not a seller's fault, it's the seller's fault. Perpetually the seller's fault. No big surprise to most of us who've been slogging through the more recent eBay shenanigans.

~M

couldabeenworse · ‎08-15-2018

Maybe I misunderstood your concern. Are you saying the buyer would be able to file an eBay SNAD claim after the claim window has closed? Just peeking at a few of my June purchases, I don't see that option.

the_fancy_fox · ‎08-15-2018

@couldabeenworse wrote:
Maybe I misunderstood your concern. Are you saying the buyer would be able to file an eBay SNAD claim after the claim window has closed? Just peeking at a few of my June purchases, I don't see that option.

I just tried on my phone with an item I purchased several months ago and yes, I was able to go through the process right up to the part when I hit send on starting a case by contact the seller.

glitch? Intentional on eBay’s part?

Now i I can see being able to contact the seller to inquire about it but I can not see then counting that contact against the seller in the SNAD metrics.

The Race is over
The Rats won.

goodluckselling · ‎08-15-2018

I think I recall in the weekly chat that anytime a request in made the sellers gets a defect on the account total. Not all defects count against the sellers monthly rating though.

Good Luck Selling!

tellmemama · ‎08-15-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:
I think I recall in the weekly chat that anytime a request in made the sellers gets a defect on the account total. Not all defects count against the sellers monthly rating though.

Good Luck Selling!

Yeah, but what happens when a seller gets these plus any remorse returns which also count? I'll tell you. A bunch of invalid yet non-removable return rates which will in some way affect the seller's standing. Not so long ago when buyers even contacted sellers "incorrectly" did they get defects which eventually resulted in their suspension.

Are we back to the Donohue days of any and everything being a defect? Fun.

<edit: spelling>

Joe

retrose1 · ‎08-15-2018

@tellmemama wrote:
@goodluckselling wrote:
I think I recall in the weekly chat that anytime a request in made the sellers gets a defect on the account total. Not all defects count against the sellers monthly rating though.

Good Luck Selling!
Yeah, but what happens when a seller gets these plus any remorse returns which also count? I'll tell you. A bunch of invalid yet non-removable return rates which will in some way affect the seller's standing. Not so long ago when buyers even contacted sellers "incorrectly" did they get defects which eventually resulted in their suspension.

Are we back to the Donohue days of any and everything being a defect? Fun.
<edit: spelling>

Haven't you heard? if a seller gets enough of these defects - ebay will punish them by tacking on an extra 40% onto their fvfs. Since the new policy says that almost ANY case will be counted by ebay as a problem sellers should be defected for, ebay is making sure that extra fvf will be attached to most of the sellers by the end of the year.

I am shocked that the update announcing it didn't say - Good News! ebay is not raising rates across the boards.

Just wait until the complaints about the new policy that says that ebay will no longer count USPS tracking that shows delivery on INR cases if you didn't enter it within the estimated ship time start rolling in.

(*Bleep*)

vintagecraze50 · ‎08-15-2018

Yes Terry you have to stay on top of everything here to protect your account. Always has been an issue. Glad you got that one straightened out.

goodluckselling · ‎08-15-2018

I do not think the total account defect totals ever went away?

The changes to the seller standards have been in the limited way a seller can get a defect that goes against the seller standard rating. Right now it is these two instances

The transaction defect rate is the percentage of your transactions that have one or more of the following defects:
- eBay Money Back Guarantee and PayPal Purchase Protection cases closed without seller resolution
- Seller-initiated transaction cancellation

tellmemama · ‎08-15-2018

Haven't you heard? if a seller gets enough of these defects - ebay will punish them by tacking on an extra 40% onto their fvfs.

Oh, I heard Rose. It isn't even the unfair fees that are upsetting. When eBay starts comparing return rates with those of our "peers", it will go so far as restricting those with too many returns from listing in that particular category.

I remember when the return rate metric appeared on our seller dashboard and almost everyone including eBay said it didn't mean anything. I believe you and I were the lone posters to say it may not matter now, but it will. History has shown if there's any way for eBay to make more money and/or cull the herd of sellers, they will do it.

Why do y'all think SNADs which are really remorse returns suddenly can't be changed?

Joe

argy_eyes · ‎08-15-2018

@the_fancy_fox wrote:
Now i I can see being able to contact the seller to inquire about it but I can not see then counting that contact against the seller in the SNAD metrics.

@the_fancy_fox,

Question from a confused seller about defect policy changes:

On several threads (I think) I've read the assertion that a buyer simply "contacting" a seller after the sale will generate a defect for the seller. I'm a small scale seller and rarely have any SNAD complaints, but I do get messages from buyers under the category "I have a question about my item" that are not questions - rather comments about how happy they were when they received the item (I know this sounds like eBay 1997, but in my selling area there are still some old-timers). These people use this category because they don't find an alternative that matches what they want to say.

Do I have this right? Should I somehow discourage buyers from contacting me at all after the sale?

Mike

goodluckselling · ‎08-15-2018

@retrose1 wrote:

Haven't you heard? if a seller gets enough of these defects - ebay will punish them by tacking on an extra 40% onto their fvfs. Since the new policy says that almost ANY case will be counted by ebay as a problem sellers should be defected for, ebay is making sure that extra fvf will be attached to most of the sellers by the end of the year.

I am shocked that the update announcing it didn't say - Good News! ebay is not raising rates across the boards.

Just wait until the complaints about the new policy that says that ebay will no longer count USPS tracking that shows delivery on INR cases if you didn't enter it within the estimated ship time start rolling in.

Not really correct.

Below standard sellers get an additional 4% added to the FVF if they elect to continue sellling here during there low rating. Also not all defects count against the seller rating, actually only two count right now , which is much less than when the defect program started a few years ago.

The transaction defect rate is the percentage of your transactions that have one or more of the following defects:

eBay Money Back Guarantee and PayPal Purchase Protection cases closed without seller resolution
Seller-initiated transaction cancellation

We have to be careful how we use the word cases. When a buyer opens a NAD or INR it is just a request. Requests allow sellers to work with buyers to resolve any issues before the request gets escalated into a case. A case is where both parties have given eBay permission to make a decision on behalf of both parites.

Very different events and every sellers has control to resolve an issue before it turns into a case.

To the sellers who are not professional enough to read the seller updates and have issues after the fact, will probably get a lot of why did you not know about this ahead of time as eBay has been showing you this info in several different locations.

Good Luck Selling!

tellmemama · ‎08-15-2018

@goodluckselling wrote:
@retrose1 wrote:

Haven't you heard? if a seller gets enough of these defects - ebay will punish them by tacking on an extra 40% onto their fvfs. Since the new policy says that almost ANY case will be counted by ebay as a problem sellers should be defected for, ebay is making sure that extra fvf will be attached to most of the sellers by the end of the year.

I am shocked that the update announcing it didn't say - Good News! ebay is not raising rates across the boards.

Just wait until the complaints about the new policy that says that ebay will no longer count USPS tracking that shows delivery on INR cases if you didn't enter it within the estimated ship time start rolling in.
Not really correct.

Below standard sellers get an additional 4% added to the FVF if they elect to continue sellling here during there low rating. Also not all defects count against the seller rating, actually only two count right now , which is much less than when the defect program started a few years ago.

The transaction defect rate is the percentage of your transactions that have one or more of the following defects:
eBay Money Back Guarantee and PayPal Purchase Protection cases closed without seller resolution
Seller-initiated transaction cancellation

We have to be careful how we use the word cases. When a buyer opens a NAD or INR it is just a request. Requests allow sellers to work with buyers to resolve any issues before the request gets escalated into a case. A case is where both parties have given eBay permission to make a decision on behalf of both parites.

Very different events and every sellers has control to resolve an issue before it turns into a case.

To the sellers who are not professional enough to read the seller updates and have issues after the fact, will probably get a lot of why did you not know about this ahead of time as eBay has been showing you this info in several different locations.

Good Luck Selling!

Ok but I've been referring to them as returns. Escalated or not, they are all counted in the return metric now. So imagine getting a bunch of bogus ones. Buyer's remorse, SNAD which are in error (as with the OP), or SNAD where the buyer never returns the item. Those are all going to be counted according to the blues. No they aren't defects. No they aren't cases. But they are going to be used when compared to the nebulous peer groups to establish whether a seller will be allowed to list in a particular category.

We also need to know for sure if too many returns may result in the higher FVF.

Joe

the_fancy_fox · ‎08-15-2018

@tellmemama wrote:
@goodluckselling wrote:
@retrose1 wrote:

Haven't you heard? if a seller gets enough of these defects - ebay will punish them by tacking on an extra 40% onto their fvfs. Since the new policy says that almost ANY case will be counted by ebay as a problem sellers should be defected for, ebay is making sure that extra fvf will be attached to most of the sellers by the end of the year.

I am shocked that the update announcing it didn't say - Good News! ebay is not raising rates across the boards.

Just wait until the complaints about the new policy that says that ebay will no longer count USPS tracking that shows delivery on INR cases if you didn't enter it within the estimated ship time start rolling in.
Not really correct.

Below standard sellers get an additional 4% added to the FVF if they elect to continue sellling here during there low rating. Also not all defects count against the seller rating, actually only two count right now , which is much less than when the defect program started a few years ago.

The transaction defect rate is the percentage of your transactions that have one or more of the following defects:
eBay Money Back Guarantee and PayPal Purchase Protection cases closed without seller resolution
Seller-initiated transaction cancellation

We have to be careful how we use the word cases. When a buyer opens a NAD or INR it is just a request. Requests allow sellers to work with buyers to resolve any issues before the request gets escalated into a case. A case is where both parties have given eBay permission to make a decision on behalf of both parites.

Very different events and every sellers has control to resolve an issue before it turns into a case.

To the sellers who are not professional enough to read the seller updates and have issues after the fact, will probably get a lot of why did you not know about this ahead of time as eBay has been showing you this info in several different locations.

Good Luck Selling!
Ok but I've been referring to them as returns. Escalated or not, they are all counted in the return metric now. So imagine getting a bunch of bogus ones. Buyer's remorse, SNAD which are in error (as with the OP), or SNAD where the buyer never returns the item. Those are all going to be counted according to the blues. No they aren't defects. No they aren't cases. But they are going to be used when compared to the nebulous peer groups to establish whether a seller will be allowed to list in a particular category.

We also need to know for sure if too many returns may result in the higher FVF.

I think it’s more than likely that down the line will these be used in a one year look back to increase the fees 4% if you exceed you super secret peer group.

EBay’s past history says yes. Which would be why they would encourage buyers to file and contact outside the seller protection policy.

its not about buyer protection.

The Race is over
The Rats won.

ersatz_sobriquet · ‎08-15-2018

The concern then is staying on the upper end of your peer group. Do you see what ebay has just done again? Enabled the buyer to squeeze money out of the seller after the sale whenever they want. Will all ebay sellers cave? No. Will many? Yep...they will get scared about their metrics, and those that don't give another piece of themselves away to the buyer will be penalized with 4% higher fees.

Ebay is basically saying--the buyer wants it at this price, and the buyer now gets to set the price. Think about it.

goodluckselling · ‎08-15-2018

@tellmemama wrote:

Ok but I've been referring to them as returns. Escalated or not, they are all counted in the return metric now. So imagine getting a bunch of bogus ones. Buyer's remorse, SNAD which are in error (as with the OP), or SNAD where the buyer never returns the item. Those are all going to be counted according to the blues. No they aren't defects. No they aren't cases. But they are going to be used when compared to the nebulous peer groups to establish whether a seller will be allowed to list in a particular category.

We also need to know for sure if too many returns may result in the higher FVF.

Okay so all requested get counted into the account total which I agree is happening but it also shows that for example - if a seller gets 25 return requests and 20 of them are for remorse reason or never actually returned, do you think eBay can see this and understand this seller is not describing wrong?

eBay has told us many times whenever action is taken against a sellers because of the account rating it is reviewed by account specialist to make sure all the details is considered.

Good Luck Selling!