Return showed up empty - post office noted it - ebay says I still have to refund

[bughaus]

We had a customer return a part in a padded mailer. All that showed up was the mailer - not torn open - just not sealed and the post office had it all in a plastic bag saying no contents or contents lost. I spoke to ebay and they said I still have to give the full refund and I should go file a claim with the post office. I explained to them I am not the shipper, the label was purchased through ebay by the buyer, and it was a first class label so there is no insurance. Ebay tells me not their problem and I have to give a full refund. I told them it gives me the option to do a 50% refund as parts are missing and they said I can do that but the customer can file an appeal to get the rest of the money. Any ideas on how to handle this? 

[mtgraves7984]

If I was TRS and offered your 30-Day Returns, I'd take the deduction. The buyer's appeal isn't your issue.

[kensgiftshop]

Do the 50% refund and move on.

It's not the best, but it's better then a full refund, until they appeal for the rest.

[chapeau-noir]

I don't think the buyer should be liable for this - they did not damage the item, the USPS did.

When you say "first class" is that letter/flat or parcel Ground Advantage (i.e., used to be first class). If it's the latter you do have insurance and can claim it. If it's letter post then I'd still refund in full and just write it off on my taxes.

[dbfolks166mt]

     What was the item and how much are we talking about? As  chapeau-noir mentioned was this really a first class postage shipment or was it ground advantage? If the later since you have the note from USPS and the package you can file a claim with USPS for shipping damage up to $100. You will have to dispute USPS's claim that no parts were missing or lost which should be pretty easy how would USPS know what was supposed to be in the package? 

[stainlessenginecovers · Accepted solution]

When you do the 50% thing, you will upload a 'picture'. When (and I mean WHEN) the buyer 'appeals' ...ebay will give them, out of THEIR POCKET- the 'other 50%. 

Not your problem (as long as you do NOT abuse the 50% thing)

[pjcdn2005]

The option of holding back 50% of the refund when: 

An item is returned after it was used or damaged by the buyer

If you accepted a buyer's return request but the item is returned in a different condition than it was originally sent:

• You can deduct up to 50% from the refund to recover the lost value of the item
  • We'll automatically remove any related negative or neutral feedback
  • If the buyer had requested the return because the item didn't match the listing, we won't count the return in your "Item not as described" rate in service metrics

In this case the buyer did not damage or use the item so holding back the 50% of the refund is not supposed to be used in this situation.  The buyer isn’t at  fault and shouldn’t have to ask ebay for the rest of their refund.  Even though you see the option I think it is just there because the system doesn’t know what happened in this situation. If sellers use it when it shouldn’t be used it may  be a perk that we will eventually lose.

[bughaus]

There is no item to gauge its condition so I can't say whether they installed it or not (it's a car part and he said it didn't fit because he ordered the wrong part) however a deduction for missing parts is a legitimate reason per ebay so no parts = all the parts are missing.

[frodobagginskennedy]

 just not sealed,,,, so they sent the parcel unsealed. as in it would be expected to lose the contents?

[bughaus]

The buyer shipped the return and they're responsible for it to get to me intact just as we are when shipping it to them in the first place. Honestly ebay should protect both the buyer and seller on something like this and follow up with USPS on their own. The label was through them and they're the ones who are stipulating return rules. But it was Ground Advantage so I have filed a claim however that will take a while so in the meantime I'll refund the buyer 50%. Ebay literally told me if the buyer wants to file an appeal with them for the remaining 50% and ebay approves it, ebay will pay for it, not us so it's the only logical path. The last time this happened (this is the second time ever - not a common occurrence) ebay actually just refunded the buyer the full amount themselves and said they were going to reimburse us for the value of the item too - they refunded the buyer but we never got our reimbursement of course.

[bughaus]

Yea - that's what we're going to do. It's the only logical path since ebay has decided to not protect their buyers or sellers in this instance.

[wastingtime101]

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@bughaus wrote:

We had a customer return a part in a padded mailer. All that showed up was the mailer - not torn open - just not sealed and the post office had it all in a plastic bag saying no contents or contents lost.

I spoke to ebay and they said I still have to give the full refund and I should go file a claim with the post office. I explained to them I am not the shipper, the label was purchased through ebay by the buyer, and it was a first class label so there is no insurance. Ebay tells me not their problem and I have to give a full refund.

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On eBay, the party that purchases the return shipping label is responsible for that package.

If it was a buyer-paid return and the package was lost, that responsibility falls to the buyer. The same should apply to a package that arrives missing contents.

eBay-generated return labels are uninsured which is unfortunate as no claim can be filed.

Which channel of eBay CS did you speak with @bughaus ? Chat through the website, DM through social media, overseas phone rep, domestic concierge rep?

Hey devon@ebay kyle@ebay . The advice given to the OP seems to conflict with what we know about policy. Has policy changed? Can you confirm what's correct in this situation? Why would a package that arrives with the envelope not properly sealed and missing contents with a sticker from the carrier confirming as much be treated any differently than a lost or damaged package?

Buyer packed, shipped, and bought the return label. Is buyer really not responsible here? No seller protections? Isn't this the type of situation where eBay would typically find in favor of the seller then issue a courtesy refund to the buyer?

[bughaus]

It doesn't appear it was ever sealed but I'm not accusing the buyer of fraud - we always tape our mailers up as the glue on cheapie mailers can easily lead to situations like this. We're just frustrated how ebay is cool hanging a longtime seller out to dry over a simple $50 transaction. Apparently since ebay doesn't give clear return packing directions to customers and is fine with not holding them responsible for anything, we're going to have to start giving any returns detailed instructions for how to pack things.

[wastingtime101]

Adding some policy info for reference:

https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/returns-items-not-received-refunds-buyers/returning-item/return-shi...

 

If you're responsible for the return shipping costs, you can choose how to send the item back to the seller.

• You can ship using an eBay label, in which case we will deduct the label cost from your refund
• You can purchase a label directly from a carrier of your choice and upload it to the return

If you choose to use your own carrier, we recommend using a tracked service. Tracking lets the seller know the item is on its way and allows eBay to see the progress of the return in case there's an issue we're asked to help with.

• Shipping a return with insurance: Shipping insurance isn't available on eBay return shipping labels. If you or the seller prefers that an item be returned with insurance, purchase your own return shipping with insurance instead of using the return shipping label provided

[bughaus]

We did the chat, overseas rep and domestic rep. All said it was our problem. However, it is ground advantage so I can (and have) filed a claim with USPS. It is interesting that USPS did give us the option of refusing the package as it was missing the contents however I imagine that would have just ended up with ebay refunding the order on our dime. When this happened once before ebay did refund the buyer as a courtesy and said they were going to refund us the cost of the item (but only actually did the buyer refund). I mentioned to the US rep that allowing things like this to happen just leaves the door open to anyone returning an open mailer and claiming USPS lost it and still get credit. They said that would be different as in this instance USPS said the package had lost its contents while in their hands so it's USPS fault and ebay isn't going to offer any seller protections on it.