eBay

gooddealtom · ‎11-18-2017

I don't think this will "help anyone, except perhaps emotionally. Ebay should have a category in the community for emotional support. I'm sure all these comments get reviewed by someone at ebay, but doubt very very much that any of that monitoring ever helps sellers.

I haven't sold on ebay for 3 years and I was reviewing changes that had occurred since I last sold. I sold in the cold months only and every year there'd be changes that I had to know in order to make my wording in listings congruent with ebay policy. I had earned 400+ feedbacks and no negatives, since starting in 2004. I made a few thousand each winter. Everyone can use a few thousand extra dollars! Well, OH MY GOD, what happened? I spent a good portion of last week reading up on the changes and the questions and reactions to those changes; on ebay forums and other outside web sites. I can honestly say, not good for sellers like me. That may or may not be good for ebay, depending on what the execs are intending. But be sure- people at the top have thought this through; what is happening is not an accident!

I owned ebay stock in 2005ish and it did very well. Stock splits galore! Ebay purchased PayPal and the combined stock soared! I used to buy 1000 shares of ebay just minutes before earnings were announced, and sell them all for a $1000 profit literally seconds after earnings were announced (the price would just shoot up!). Well, those days are over. PayPal was sold by ebay, though they still have a tight arrangement. In those days, most computer users had a desk top and purchased or sold with their desk top.

Then, slowly began creeping in listings with a fuzzy photo and a 10 word description, "sent from my iphone" it would say. Today, the changes you are seeing are all designed (in part) for maximum easy use on a hand held computer. I remember an attorney I had that communicated text on his cell phone, and I could not communicate with him in detail about anything. His cognitive ability was limited to two 10 word sentences. That is where ebay wants to be. New items by mostly recognized retailers, or at least new recognized items, all with simple 20 word descriptions and other buttons to click on if you need more info. But buyers don't worry, you won't be held accountable for checking details, just send it back if you don't want it, at someone else's expense too.

Unique antiques, collectibles or even used items, do not fit this model. They can't be accepted for return at sellers expense without a significant enough cost for most of us, not to mention risk. Insurance no longer fits into the equation, as buyers don't need to comply with provided insurance in order to get their money back, and often times even expect to keep the item after refund! Sellers can't make insurance claims on their own What's the motivation for a buyer to assist? What has happened?

So, what is my specific issue that's either going to keep me here or not? I am not going to accept buyers being able to (using ebay) take $ out of my account to reimburse themselves for items they ordered and do not want, unless, I made a mistake. If I can't insure an item and require the buyer to go thru a process to demonstrate what they received was damaged in transit, I'm not going to stay. I have to see, if I opt out of the ebay return system on a particular item, can I at least force the buyer to ship the item back before returning payment? And then, will a returned damaged item, if originally insured, be insurance claim-able by me? I'll check with the PO about that on Monday.

So, that was all very therapeutic. And so is this- I look on my stock web site and look up current earnings and reviews of eBay. One of the more respected reviewers CFRA, says (in part) "We are optimistic about mobile opportunities.[non-desk-top sales]. However, we see growth as significantly lacking following the PayPal spin-off, and we think it will have to spend considerably (via internal investment and/or M&A) to become a growth company again. We also note recent market share losses around the world. [i.e. people are giving up on ebay]. Make any sense? Perhaps ebay can make it competing with Amazon. But perhaps not. Amazon does not do well with used stuff, and that really WAS ebay's bread and butter in the beginning. Now there are 10 or so board members sitting around a table, none of whom have ever sold anything on-line themselves. They have ideas that have absolutely nothing to do with selling on ebay. Their thinking is on how they can change numbers in categories to look good on an earnings report (and other categories they have made up). There is apparently no thinking on how to keep customers, who are, by the way, the sellers. Ebay makes no money from buyers. You can do the semantic, chicken and egg game- there isn't one without the other. But the money ebay makes, is mostly from sellers. NO WAY AROUND THAT. STARTS WITH SELLERS. Buyers will come when there are sellers selling good stuff at a good price. Buyers will "sniff them out". That is the only formula that matters.

Let's see,..and now "http issues" and "SNAD" ...this is not a part time deal any more.

And I suspect many will buzz in and indicate "I should go now", even though I haven't said anything too bad.

Good day all.

berserkerplanet · ‎11-18-2017

Why?

nawlinsron2 · ‎11-18-2017

ebay has distinct advantage over the mall...you can't get t-boned en route.
On the other hand...
The mall has a distinct disadvantage over ebay...you can't get full credit for a Gucci when you return a brick.
Life is full of choices...

smileytown18 · ‎11-18-2017

@gooddealtom wrote:
I don't think this will "help anyone, except perhaps emotionally. Ebay should have a category in the community for emotional support...

LIKE!!

These boards sometimes feel like they are more about emotional support and free therapy then about eBay selling questions and solutions.

smileytown18 · ‎11-18-2017

" I'm sure all these comments get reviewed by someone at ebay, but doubt very very much that any of that monitoring ever helps sellers."

I don't think they can effectively monitor these boards and all the evolving comments. And I doubt they are even inclined to do so.
If they do, I hope they take some sort of anti-depressant.

lookng2015 · ‎11-18-2017

@stonevintage wrote:
There's a song in your title:) My only suggestion, since you have a sales past you can draw on.... is to consider your past experience, go back and work your numbers and make decisions from there. Pull 20 items or so and look up sales in the completeds, check for market oversaturation. It's not everywhere you can pull 200-300 for a vtg deck of playing cards so, your options to find a better selling venue may be limited.

Things have changed, there are consistant high rip off categories. Looks like what you've sold in the past isn't one of them. Can't believe that this venue has stuck by the buyer doesn't need to provide photos as proof of damage (so wrong). I'm not buying any new inventory, but will slowly come back next week after some time not selling to test the waters for just lower value items, using the 50 free per month - no store.... to see how it goes.

You can do a "test market" and partially re-enter here... hope it works out for you. Just remember... don't list anything that will really bend your week if you get ripped off

There is one venue (which of course I can't name or I'll find myself vactioning on an island again) where during the claim for damage process you HAVE to upload a photo of said damage or the claim simply does not proceed. So it IS doable. As to why eBay refuses to do so, well........draw your own conclusions.

"If a product doesn't sell, raise the price" - Reese Palley
"If it sold FAST, it was priced too low" - also Reese Palley

fashunu4eeuh · ‎11-19-2017

Thank you for using paragraphs!

You asked this question: ",,,I have to see, if I opt out of the ebay return system on a particular item, can I at least force the buyer to ship the item back before returning payment?.."

I'm not quite sure what you meant by "If I opt out of the ebay return system" since every seller is subject to the MBG so there is no opting out of the system in that respect. But the few times i have seen where the customer keeps the item AND gets the refund have been No Return sellers who let cases close without their involvement or resolution. In my own experience I have had very few returns over the years but never had trouble getting the item back when i did. The buyer must return the item, with tracking to prove delivery to the seller, before a refund is issued. At least that's been the usual historical practice. Now with rumblings going on about automatic returns, the times they may be-a-changing, but we'll have to wait and see.

Whatever you decide, to sell or not to sell, I wish you success. And, thank you for the interesting post.

luckythewinner · ‎11-19-2017

@ooddealtom wrote:
There is apparently no thinking on how to keep customers, who are, by the way, the sellers. Ebay makes no money from buyers. You can do the semantic, chicken and egg game- there isn't one without the other. But the money ebay makes, is mostly from sellers. NO WAY AROUND THAT. STARTS WITH SELLERS.

eBay makes money when a buyer and a seller get together.

It may start with sellers, but it ends with buyers.

Sellers need buyers.

Buyers need sellers.

They are both ebay's customers, because eBay needs both.

But the cold, harsh reality on the ground is that right now, eBay needs buyers more than it needs sellers. And until that balance changes, sellers are going to get the short end of the stick.

gooddealtom · ‎11-19-2017

@stonevintage wrote:

The one thing I didn't see in all that, was what made the OP quit selling 3 years ago... lol I may have missed it in all the text wall but would like to know.

(am I the "OP"?) I moved. Had to remodel a new house, fix the old duplex, sell it, help the wife immigrant find a job, on and on. Hard to do all that well and monitor listings, find new stuff and list it, all at the same time. Did well on the duplex, however!

gooddealtom · ‎11-19-2017

@fashunu4eeuh wrote:
Thank you for using paragraphs!

You asked this question: ",,,I have to see, if I opt out of the ebay return system on a particular item, can I at least force the buyer to ship the item back before returning payment?.."

I'm not quite sure what you meant by "If I opt out of the ebay return system" since every seller is subject to the MBG so there is no opting out of the system in that respect. But the few times i have seen where the customer keeps the item AND gets the refund have been No Return sellers who let cases close without their involvement or resolution. In my own experience I have had very few returns over the years but never had trouble getting the item back when i did. The buyer must return the item, with tracking to prove delivery to the seller, before a refund is issued. At least that's been the usual historical practice. Now with rumblings going on about automatic returns, the times they may be-a-changing, but we'll have to wait and see.

Whatever you decide, to sell or not to sell, I wish you success. And, thank you for the interesting post.

You're welcome for the interesting post. From what I am understanding, because I haven't done a "test post" yet (but I've read a lot of stuff), seller has the option to click on "returns not accepted". By doing so, you are "opting" out of ebay's automatic return system, and you are not agreeing to return an item "no matter what" (I know you still are obligated to). Consequently, there is still the Money Back Guarantee which guarantees items to be as described (including items damaged during shipping). That's all fine. Problem is, there is no actual check on whether the item is actually damaged or not as described. Buyer could, also, and if backed into a corner without any other way to go, damage the item themselves in order to force a return. In the past, if they did this, they would have to lie to and deal with the PO (or other carrier). There can be a legal consequence to doing so. The PO, whatever people say about its inneffectiveness, may actually try and screw you if you lie to them. Ebay? I doubt it very much; maybe kick you out but I doubt it. Scammers know all this.

So if a buyer with a "damaged during shipping" item at least must return it before being issued a refund, then seller PERHAPS (I have to check with the PO) can file a damage claim himself if he insured the item prior to it being originally shipped, and now he has it in his hands to file a claim. A seller (like me, selling antiques) wants to start off with a no return policy so the buyer is aware they are not dealing with Macy's.

SO THEN, does that fact, that I've started off with a no return policy, prevent the process from moving forward where the buyer will at some point be required to (in the course of forcing me to refund money back) ship the item back to me (granted, at my expense)? In this scenerio, buyer gets away with damaging item but at least I can collect an insurance refund, and perhaps buyer is afraid of getting caught because someone other than ebay or myself is involved?

Sorry for all the words, but one has to communicate!! Good Day!

gooddealtom · ‎11-19-2017

I am retired since a while back, early as I have MS. My income is SS. So ebay was comfort money. In warmer months I sell at an outdoor antiques/collectible flea market. So the question of which came first, the cheicken or the egg, ia a common discussion.

To start a transaction, I believe it begins with a seller. Say, you have an empty field. You want sales to occur. You can fill the field with buyers, but nothing is going to happen, ever. Now, put somebody selling something there. Things can begin. If you have two sellers and no buyers, one seller becomes a buyer. Buyers have a way of finding out where the deals are. But it begins with the seller. Something must be sold.

Does there have to be policing of the situation? Absolutley, otherwise buyers will try to scam sellers and sellers will try to scam buyers. But to think all this originates with buyers, and to kiss their behinds at the expense of sellers, will (I believe) have a large negative effect (eventually) on the selling action. It will affect who sells and what they sell. Multiply that by thousands of sellers, and you have "an effect".

The ball has swung in the direction of buyers. No negative feedback. Instant cost free returns.

Let's see how all this works out. Come back in 5 years and see what impact this has had on eBay. For right now, I can tell you for people like me, (not big sellers) this is all quite disturbing and really, if I do sell, I really have to worry about putting up $600 items and shipping that costs more than $15. So I might not inclkude those items. Will others do the same?

keziak · ‎11-19-2017

The OP mentions making a few thousand in the winter (over the holidays I assume?). That is part time. I think it must be very hard to earn a full-time income here but part-time for extra spending money is possible. The question is how many listings are needed to get those thousands in income? Is it worth the time and effort to list hundreds of items to get those sales?

klassic*kids · ‎11-19-2017

All I have to say is "if I go there will be trouble, if stay it will be double"

- The Clash..

In all seriousness it is a difficult to decision if you should stay on eBay or not. I guess it depends on if you have tried every possible thing to increase your sales and make selling here more profitable for you. If not, then try some new things. If you have already, then you need to weigh out other options. Good Luck to you.

Happy 2018! May this upcoming year be a prosperous one!

gooddealtom · ‎11-19-2017

@keziak wrote:
The OP mentions making a few thousand in the winter (over the holidays I assume?). That is part time. I think it must be very hard to earn a full-time income here but part-time for extra spending money is possible. The question is how many listings are needed to get those thousands in income? Is it worth the time and effort to list hundreds of items to get those sales?

Definately part time. And I do respect very much, full time. I'd say in the past a few thousand dollars (lets say 3-4) was done some years with about 70 or so listings. Dec 1 to March 31, to be pretty exact. Listings did not always sell. The real money makers, obviously did. I did not follow buyers around to get their feedback, perhaps 2/3 left feedback. Always great to have two stubborn people bid against each other on a relatively unique item. There was work too and attention to detail. it's not easy. You have to sell unique items (not common), and be able to describe them in detail with words, to get buyer confidence. Out of those transactions, I would say 2 to 3% were always jokers who might otherwise create some kind of trouble. So I would not do it if I had to list hundreds of items as you suggest.

keziak · ‎11-19-2017

I am sometimes frustrated that I have to have so many more listings today to make the same money I made a year, two years, etc ago. But it's not just ebay. It's the same deal elsewhere. The number of sellers has skyrocketed but there is little evidence of a substantial increase in buyers. Take my category for example, books. When you consider that most people do not read many books and those that do may read and buy mostly fiction, the market for nonfiction seems small.

When I started out I could list relatively few books -AND at auction - and get good sales. Them days are long gone.