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Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

At this stage I have decided to halt ALL promotions. No more promoted listings, period.

 

When it has sunk so low that we are now being asked to bid on keywords or be buried in the search results, it's time to rethink things and consider other avenues.  I called it back when regular promoted listings were rolled out and said that this was just the start until something else came along like "super duper ultra mega major hyper uber promoted listings", and well, here it is.

 

You see, they knew something all along when promoted listings became a thing, and that is that eventually we would be promoting just to maintain what our sales were prior to promoted listings. eBay enjoys the extra fees and we all end up right where we started at while also "choosing" to promote. Now that everyone is promoted, apparently we need "super promotions" to be promoted over the regular promoted listings, so really, what is the point of bothering to even promote?

 

Repeat after me. When everyone is promoted, nobody is promoted. Go right ahead and try to compete with Promoted Listings Advanced and see how well that works out. Enjoy paying more and more just to get your listings seen.

 

I mean honestly, do quality listings even matter when you can just buy the top placement? Is it even worth it to have good photos, good descriptions and relevant keywords when someone else can just buy the spots? 

 

My prediction, the search results are going to be a mess of low quality, irrelevant results that will serve to make eBay look like wish or alibaba. Buyers will get frustrated because what they want to find will be hidden from them in favor of purchased results. Sellers will get frustrated because doing a good job will be secondary to the people who pay to play, and many will leave for other platforms where they believe the playing deck is not as stacked against them.

 

For me personally, once my sales tank because of this, I will be taking the remainder of my listings elsewhere and double down somewhere else. There are a couple other places I have been watching and thinking about trying out, and this just might be the push I needed to do so.

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

Well the way I see it. It is only an option to use for sellers, not a requirement.  If some sellers feel that a PPC program will help them, then it would be a good option. One must remember it it not just the PPC,or regular PL that make a sale. No matter how much you bid on these placements. If China sellers can sell stuff cheaply and they choose to add the PPC to their listings then more power to them, except, they will only cater to a certain type of buyer looking for cheaply made cheap goods, and people will  have to wait extended periods to receive the items. People will quality items , offering fast shipping, free shipping, free returns, good prices and all the bells and whistles will still be fine. I would take offense if this program became mandatory for everyone as it clearly does not suit everyone’s business plan, on here, nor would it be cost effective for some. 

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

PPC is always a gamble. It requires constant testing of keywords with no quarentee of results. It requires that you devote a lot of time and energy into testing testing and testing and then after it works for a bit, it may not work subsequently. It is a tricky tool. Use it wisely.

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

I use Google search at times for stuff I buy. I can see a lot of paid advertisement stuff in my face on the top but I actually use these paid ads with the higher than normal prices as a tool to find the better alternatives with better pricing. Then do a organic search WITHIN the actual website. People paying a fortune for these ads have a gigantic inventory and it they sell and get a hit for that ad they may get many more sales becuase their inventory is huge. GOOD FOR THEM. EXCEPT, I and many other use their ads, to find items at a better price point. Good for me.

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

The potential to attract more buyers is there with PPC, but the potential to lose a lot of ad fees is also there as well. It takes a lot of time to test ads, and with each test there is money to be spent. It is just the way ad programs work.

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

@vintagecraze50 If my business model was one this was designed for, and especially if I had experience with PPC elsewhere, I'd absolutely be using this. Especially right now. Because right now, I'd guess the auction competition is relatively low, for two reasons: 1. Sellers trying it for the first time are at a disadvantage because, as you say, it takes some effort and analysis to get it right....which gives experienced sellers an advantage. 2. Many ebay sellers tend to have a knee jerk negative reaction to anything that involves them spending more money, so many who could benefit from this will instead dismiss it without seeing its value.  As with PL Standard, at least some of them will eventually see the value in it (probably after they've seen a decline in their sales because the experienced sellers are using it to gain market share).

 

So, again, IF my business was suited to the PPC model, I'd be making hay while the sun shines. 

 

But I'll stick with PL Standard, because my business model is not one that will likely benefit from this (and I have no experience using it)

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

Correct. Some would benefit greatly from working on this strategy. Some may not.

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?


@frugality_inc wrote:

While that may be true for some sellers that do not know their numbers, I see a lot of sellers that use slower shipping methods without tracking to cut costs to be able to pay for the higher promoted listing fee. eBay used to reward sellers for good service, now that is ignored.


According to many other threads on this board, those sellers you see "a lot of" will get positively hammered by fraudulent INRs and probably driven out of business. 

 

 

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

@vintagecraze50 Exactly. That's the nature of competition. We see it here everyday. A couple recent threads about how impossible it is to make money selling clothing....this despite the fact that there are many sellers doing very, very well selling clothing. There are always winners and losers in business. And things change. A winning strategy today may not be a winning strategy tomorrow. So, yes, some sellers will undoubtedly lose money trying this, but , just for example, every day there are sellers who lose money buying poorly chosen inventory at too high prices. Or who lose money because they have valuable items but don't know it and sell them for way too little. ..leaving money on the table. 

 

The risks with PPC can be high, but since the seller sets a cap on his ad spend, he has the opportunity (I would say the obligation) to limit his risk. And the rewards can also be high. Anyone who has spent money on ads of any type knows there's always a risk that he's just throwing money away. 

 

 

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?


@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@vintagecraze50 Exactly. That's the nature of competition. We see it here everyday. A couple recent threads about how impossible it is to make money selling clothing....this despite the fact that there are many sellers doing very, very well selling clothing. There are always winners and losers in business. And things change. A winning strategy today may not be a winning strategy tomorrow. So, yes, some sellers will undoubtedly lose money trying this, but , just for example, every day there are sellers who lose money buying poorly chosen inventory at too high prices. Or who lose money because they have valuable items but don't know it and sell them for way too little. ..leaving money on the table. 

 

The risks with PPC can be high, but since the seller sets a cap on his ad spend, he has the opportunity (I would say the obligation) to limit his risk. And the rewards can also be high. Anyone who has spent money on ads of any type knows there's always a risk that he's just throwing money away. 

 

 


A big contributor of this problem is that many people are misled by eBay's "best practices" and recommendations, and don't actually have the ability to test these things out to see what works.

 

Often times using eBay's best practices will give you LESS sales. The ironic thing is that eBay has made articles featuring employees who are also sellers and they say to follow eBay's best practices in public, but if you check the stores listings, they don't follow their own advice.

 

Most eBay reps have no clue how eBay's systems actually work. And for sellers, they are limited by many factors (pricing capabilities, experience, knowledge of competitors, availability of stock) and can't get a clear picture.

 

As a larger seller, if we run in to issues where it seems impossible to get sales, we have to ask why and figure out what works and doesn't in the current algorithm. This also reveals a lot of glitches and technical issues, or sometimes potential penalties/punishments that are not very transparent in eBay's system. As a software developer, we could actually look at the data found in eBay's listings, and often times corrupted data is the problem. This allows us to not only find the glitch in their system, but also see if/when they fix it (and a large portion have NOT been fixed). Most sellers will have no idea if any of these problems are what is harming their sales, and they can only see what eBay shows them in their listings, they can't see the raw data that eBay's site is working with.

 

This last year has been especially frustrating, as they have been often times changing things weekly. Meaning even if we dedicate a lot of effort in to figuring out what is working well, it changes soon after. So it's a constant uphill battle.

 

I guess the main thing I want to point out in response to your post is that business strategies and competition do matter. But based on the things we've encountered over the last few years, the battle is usually with eBay, their system, their algorithms, their penalties, their glitches. It's only if you get past all of these potential pitfalls and are in a good place that competition will even begin to matter. And sadly, competitiveness is often not the problem. Most sellers would be able to tell something is wrong, but have no way to prove it, which leads to a lot of the arguments we see on here. But it's a different story as we've encountered these types of things and saw them with my own eyes.

 

I honestly wish eBay would become about out-competing the other sellers again, and pleasing the customer. Business policies were much more straight forward, and it's rewarding to focus on customers. But ever since they began their AI backed search at the start of 2018, it's no longer about pleasing customers or sales history. It's all about algorithms and which variables/promotions/etc are being weighed heavily in the current algorithm. Assuming two sellers are both weighed heavily in the current algorithm? Then it's time to really compete.

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

Regardless of whatever strategies are presented here the best strategies are to provide the customer with the best experience you can, and that involves advertising you product well in your listing, on your store front, maintaining a good rep, keeping your repeat buyers, getting them the product swiftly, approving returns and giving them free ship back labels, and communicating well with would be buyers messaging you for info. You do all these things and you will create new customers and keep the one’s you have established here.

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

Anonymous
Not applicable

@johneezstore  I sent you a private message. Hope you can help 🙂

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

The same thing has happened to me. About 60% of my sales are promoted listings. Since this went into effect on 9/20, the bottom has fallen out on sales and impressions. And I pay high PL rates -10-12%.

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

Promoting your items will not work if you are overpriced compared to other sellers regardless of the placement of your item in search.

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?

Just a common example of Flats v. First Class Package ... When the savings is $2.00+ for a flat versus a First Class Package, they can afford to eat the non-delivery claims, whether truthful or fraudulent. They'll issue a refund before you can escalate the case to avoid any defects to their account. 

 

 

Factor this in with PLs where they can pay eBay even more ... never ending spiral. I've see some sellers abusing flats so much that their feedback is below 90% with considerable feedback volume >100 monthly. The overwhelming majority of those negative feedbacks is related to either slow delivery, no tracking or even arrived with postage due. eBay won't change anything as long as the money is coming in. 

 

On Friday USPS will begin slowing down First Class mail (not to be confused with First Class Package). I'm confident eBay will continue to allow this. All they care about it how much you're willing to pay them for the top slots, regardless of your metrics and practices. Only requirements they've added is where you cannot use PLs if you're below standard... What a meaningful requirement @jordan_sweetnam 

 

 

Point being on how this is connected to PLs...  this is all about enriching eBay at the cost of sacrificing the quality of the buying experience on eBay. The executives know this, that's why you don't see any of them addressing it. Meanwhile, the platform continues to bleed. eBay is funding their own life rafts while sellers pay for it instead of sticking to the fundamentals that have given eBay advantages versus other eCommerce sites. Just fly the white flag already. 

 

 

 

The shipping issue is just a part of the quality problems that PLs help promote. Just a small part of the overall issues with PLs to begin with.

 

 

 

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Re: Promoted Listings Advanced - Why Bother?


@zamo-zuan wrote:

 

This last year has been especially frustrating, as they have been often times changing things weekly. Meaning even if we dedicate a lot of effort in to figuring out what is working well, it changes soon after. So it's a constant uphill battle.

 

I guess the main thing I want to point out in response to your post is that business strategies and competition do matter. But based on the things we've encountered over the last few years, the battle is usually with eBay, their system, their algorithms, their penalties, their glitches. It's only if you get past all of these potential pitfalls and are in a good place that competition will even begin to matter. And sadly, competitiveness is often not the problem. Most sellers would be able to tell something is wrong, but have no way to prove it, which leads to a lot of the arguments we see on here. But it's a different story as we've encountered these types of things and saw them with my own eyes.

 

I honestly wish eBay would become about out-competing the other sellers again, and pleasing the customer. Business policies were much more straight forward, and it's rewarding to focus on customers. But ever since they began their AI backed search at the start of 2018, it's no longer about pleasing customers or sales history. It's all about algorithms and which variables/promotions/etc are being weighed heavily in the current algorithm. Assuming two sellers are both weighed heavily in the current algorithm? Then it's time to really compete.


 

That's the main question. Why has eBay gotten away from the focus on the customer experience?

 

 

eBay has now tailored their systems to squeeze as much money out of each dollar of revenue, completely casting aside what the customer expects and wants. I'm all for a business making a profit, but why destroy the fundamentals that have built eBay to where it is today? It's frustrating knowing eBay is self destructing itself.

 

eBay has true potential as many sellers have seen & experienced, but eBay has other plans that only benefit themselves instead of a win-win-win environment for the buyers, sellers & eBay.

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