Promoted Listing fees algorithm - Ebay scamming sellers

[equipmentlab]

Ebay charged me promoted listing fees for items which were not clicked through the promotions.  I only found about it through an error. I sell lab equipment and a customer requested to split up a glass reactor as he only need the stirring mechanism.  luckily I had a separate listing which was only the stirring mechanism and I sent him the Ebay item number to save him time on searching for it.  He found the item and purchased it.  Few days later I was checking my payment fees and noticed that Ebay charged me the 2% Promoted listing fee even when they did not click on the promotion and found the item by me link.  Someone please let me if this is fair or even legal? Did anyone else notice this?

[nuclearomen]

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@valueaddedresource wrote:

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@nuclearomen wrote:

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@valueaddedresource it is fair, because buyer is using the ebay search to find the item, item number or not, if one uses ebay search and that person gets shown the sponsored listing and they click that listing, they are locked to PL fee on the purchase for 30 days. It's perfectly legal within the agreement of user and ebay for using Promoted Listings. 

If PL fee was changed for a listing that wasn't promoted, yes, that would be different. 

It's been long known that providing someone the item# to find through ebay search can result in them seeing the PL and not just the normal listing. If you do and don't explain to that person to NOT click the "Sponsored" listing then it's 100% the sellers fault. If you provide a direct link URL for them to copy and past to the normal listing then you won't have to worry about the PL fee unless buyer previously clicked the PL then like said they are locked for 30 days to that fee being attached to the order. 

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@nuclearomen  I understand how it all works, which is why I said it is absolutely legal and within eBay's terms.

What I personally don't believe is fair is for eBay to show the sponsored version of the listing in a situation where there can literally only be one unique search result displayed. I specifically said "personally" in my previous post because I understand other people may not find it to be unfair - it's just my opinion that it's a bit of dirty pool.

Can eBay do it within their terms? Yep. Are sellers justified in feeling like that's a bit of a "gotcha" move on eBay's part? Also yep, again in my opinion.

To be clear - I am not in any way saying eBay is violating their own policies or any laws or anything like that. Under the terms they clearly have every right to do it that way.

However, I think if CEO Jamie Iannone was serious about his claims that "openness, honesty, respect and doing business with integrity drives our success" then setting up PL so it doesn't display the promoted version of the listing for a unique direct item ID search would be the right thing to do.

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i know you do @valueaddedresource  wasn't saying you didn't, just so you know. I wanted to stress that anytime someone uses the ebay search to find an item, even with the item #, it's considered by ebay "fair game" and they WILL show that PL, may see both Normal and the PL (sometime you do) and if someone clicks that PL it's locked. Can't remember when this first came up...was sometime ago, but it's been a known thing with using item # in ebay search - usually, especially sellers, know NOT to click the PL - I constantly don't click the PL when I search for something I intend to buy - as a seller, I figure can at least help others by not attaching that extra fee if I do purchase. But just a buyer, may not be aware - though sure many are. 

It's not Lannone alone, can add many of them to it, Rawashdeh included. 

[the-hook-and-the-loop]

How about the fact that sellers have become eBay's best customers. Literally squeezing every ounce of profit. Sellers are the ones paying those dividends.

[zamo-zuan]

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@nuclearomen wrote:

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@valueaddedresource wrote:

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Is it fair? Personally, no I don't think it's fair at all for eBay to show the promoted version for a direct exact item number search that can only possibly return one unique result.

But is it legal and technically within the terms of how eBay operates their ad program? Unfortunately yes.

If you never had that listing in any PL campaign at all, that would be a whole thing though.

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@valueaddedresource it is fair, because buyer is using the ebay search to find the item, item number or not, if one uses ebay search and that person gets shown the sponsored listing and they click that listing, they are locked to PL fee on the purchase for 30 days. It's perfectly legal within the agreement of user and ebay for using Promoted Listings. 

If PL fee was changed for a listing that wasn't promoted, yes, that would be different. 

It's been long known that providing someone the item# to find through ebay search can result in them seeing the PL and not just the normal listing. If you do and don't explain to that person to NOT click the "Sponsored" listing then it's 100% the sellers fault. If you provide a direct link URL for them to copy and past to the normal listing then you won't have to worry about the PL fee unless buyer previously clicked the PL then like said they are locked for 30 days to that fee being attached to the order. 

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I would disagree that it's "fair because eBay search is being used to find the item", because if you're searching by eBay ID, the promotion features are NOT showing in the search. It's not comparing any listings promoted vs non-promoted, and there's only a SINGLE impression. How could the promotion systems even be active if there's no comparison of organic vs promoted?

Does that really fit the definition of "Promoted"? If you're paying to promote your listings, you're paying for advertisement or superior placement vs non-PL. They are giving you NEITHER of those things when you search by eBay ID.

And for the record, it never functioned this way until recently. They had intentionally changed it in the same update that changed the promotional rates.

"If you do and don't explain to that person to NOT click the "Sponsored" listing then it's 100% the sellers fault"

This is the point. A search comes with a SINGLE listing and it is ONLY and ALWAYS "Sponsored". 

It goes beyond just searching by eBay ID as well. It's the same thing that is leading to people getting Sponsored purchases from buying in their purchase history.

For some fun research, it'd be nice if someone performs some searches and sees what happens if the PL shows up in search by you do NOT click it, and then you purchase it later. 

[eburtonlab]

Does ebay even display the "organic" listing in answer to a search query if it is promoted anymore?

By default the organic listing should appear in search results in most situations.

The organic version of a promoted listing may not appear if the searcher is using Best Match sort and the promoted version of the listing is ranked higher in the sort than the organic listing would be; then the lower-ranked organic version may not appear in the search, just the promoted version may appear.

If the promoted listing is ranked lower in the Best Match sort order than the organic listing, then the promoted listing may not appear but the higher ranked organic listing will appear.

If the searcher is using another sort order, both listings should appear.

[meme6253]

That's How It Is Suppose To Be, But I Don't Know For Sure If That Is How It's Handled??

[play.tr]

I have similar experience. Sent an item's link to buyer myself, there's no possibility of he click it via promoted link before, because he didn't find that item despite he checked my store ( this is another problem ) when I sent link he bought it immediately and eBay charged promotion fees.

[zamo-zuan]

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@eburtonlab wrote:

Does ebay even display the "organic" listing in answer to a search query if it is promoted anymore?

By default the organic listing should appear in search results in most situations.

The organic version of a promoted listing may not appear if the searcher is using Best Match sort and the promoted version of the listing is ranked higher in the sort than the organic listing would be; then the lower-ranked organic version may not appear in the search, just the promoted version may appear.

If the promoted listing is ranked lower in the Best Match sort order than the organic listing, then the promoted listing may not appear but the higher ranked organic listing will appear.

If the searcher is using another sort order, both listings should appear.

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I don't know that this is the case because with 100% of our listings, the promoted versions show up if searching by eBay Item ID.

It has been that way ever since their changes earlier in the year, and seems to be related to how the first slots are dedicated to promotions.

[zamo-zuan]

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@play.tr wrote:

I have similar experience. Sent an item's link to buyer myself, there's no possibility of he click it via promoted link before, because he didn't find that item despite he checked my store ( this is another problem ) when I sent link he bought it immediately and eBay charged promotion fees.

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Yep... As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, there needs to be some official research in to if people are being charged for the PL showing up and not being clicked. 

EBay made sure they have an 'out' for this because it seems content creators have been banned for doing such things, I don't recall reason but obviously something along the lines of unsafe business practices (lol). I guess since the purchase and method of doing so must be planned beforehand, they consider that 'gaming the system' somehow.

But it's quite clear that it's happening for multiple reasons, from the changes in Promoted conversion rates, to "Purchase history" buys counting as Promoted purchases, and situations such as what you describe.

EBay has been quite blatant this year with their exploitative practices with Promoted Listings. And have even openly stated they would be doing so, with the comments about bringing the profits to "double digits".  Not to mention their snafu's with the traffic page that seem to imply the "Organic Views" formula is calculated by Total Views - Promoted Views = Organic Views... 

[nuclearomen]

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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I would disagree that it's "fair because eBay search is being used to find the item", because if you're searching by eBay ID, the promotion features are NOT showing in the search. It's not comparing any listings promoted vs non-promoted, and there's only a SINGLE impression. How could the promotion systems even be active if there's no comparison of organic vs promoted?

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not sure i get you here, already know that searching with item # DOES return results with the Sponsored listings as well as the normal, organic listing... sometimes both, sometimes just normal, sometimes just promoted... that's all up to ebay what they show and at what times, for what member. Impression...what would it matter? An impression isn't a click, and the system counts impressions as click away. 

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Does that really fit the definition of "Promoted"? If you're paying to promote your listings, you're paying for advertisement or superior placement vs non-PL. They are giving you NEITHER of those things when you search by eBay ID.

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Yes they are, they are showing the listing because one used the ebay search. This isn't hard to understand, making it complicated only makes it hard to understand. If you type in item # and ebay returns the result for that listing then it's doing exactly what it's suppose to do, show the listing. And as we already said, it's up to ebay what listing they show. 

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and for the record, it never functioned this way until recently. They had intentionally changed it in the same update that changed the promotional rates.

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Been this way for as long as I can remember with PLs and been using them since they started, as I know you have also. Maybe you mean being charged for PL if PL wasn't clicked? But as for searching with item # they have always shown the PL in search...just as said, it's not all the time it will happen but most certainly can. 

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"If you do and don't explain to that person to NOT click the "Sponsored" listing then it's 100% the sellers fault"

This is the point. A search comes with a SINGLE listing and it is ONLY and ALWAYS "Sponsored". 

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...just as we have said, and @valueaddedresource even shown a screen of it on the first page of this thread... search can show both, or one or the other, that's entirely up to ebay and that is what the search is suppose to do. Though I understand what your saying, that the result is more then likely to show the "sponsored" listing above the normal because ebay makes more... but then that argument will then become, if one doesn't like it why did they enter into PLs? 

It goes beyond just searching by eBay ID as well. It's the same thing that is leading to people getting Sponsored purchases from buying in their purchase history.

For some fun research, it'd be nice if someone performs some searches and sees what happens if the PL shows up in search by you do NOT click it, and then you purchase it later. 

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 I don't know this first part... I have sales with PL fee and sales without it, not every sale is on the PL and ebay isn't charging me PL fees for every sale I make. But make no mistake, sales on the PL are much more then they ever were now and I'm giving ebay 10X more in PL fees a month then ever have, use to average $5-$12 a month in PL fees with like maybe 1/4th sales for the month sold on the PL - now it's like 3-4 in a row and more cost to me. The story isn't really any different from anyone else, we are all paying more in PL fees these days! 

Item # is the same for listing weather it's PL or organic... what defines the two is the URL... at least this has always been the understanding, they don't get separate item#'s though. Maybe that's by design ebay made it this way, giving them the edge to include the PL even if item# is searched because it isn't a unique item# to PL only listing. 

[mycheaperstuff]

@zamo-zuan Do you have a link for your statement, "Not to mention their snafu's with the traffic page that seem to imply the "Organic Views" formula is calculated by Total Views - Promoted Views = Organic Views... "

I've tried searching the community and haven't found a thread like that. organic views would be the remainder, wouldn't it?

Thanks.

[mycheaperstuff]

I think what we each witness with our own promoted listings is exactly, and only, that -- a unique experience. There is no knowledge base of what eBay does in all cases or even what it does as a base case.

I am skeptical that eBay maintains the up-to-date, stable code and data bases necessary to manage promoted listings "according to Hoyle."

That won't keep them from squeezing and charging.

[stainlessenginecovers]

Happened same way to me in June; I contacted Reps via Ebay for Business and the answer to why I was charged is shown in this thread I started in June: See Post #6 

Does these 'promotion' charges sound right to you? - The eBay Community

[nuclearomen]

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@mycheaperstuff wrote:

I think what we each witness with our own promoted listings is exactly, and only, that -- a unique experience. There is no knowledge base of what eBay does in all cases or even what it does as a base case.

I am skeptical that eBay maintains the up-to-date, stable code and data bases necessary to manage promoted listings "according to Hoyle."

That won't keep them from squeezing and charging.

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@mycheaperstuff exactly, there isn't any knowledge base what ebay does, in this or any case that leads to a sale. This goes all the way back to when they started PLs, the same question that existed then exists now... How does one KNOW a buyer clicked a Sponsored listing or didn't and ebay is just giving the PL fee at will? 

This is why I said that listing normal or sponsored share the same Item #, there is no unique Item number to distinguish between the two and so we don't know. It's taking ebay on their word but their word is like having a blind man lead you into the unknown. 

This is why sellers have to leave the room in their price to accommodate the chance sale is given the PL fee elected, because you have no idea if sale will come via normal or sponsored listing and there is no way (that I know of) to prove it didn't without setting up a test sale. 

[aqeeqsouq]

@meme6253 @nuclearomen 

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@meme6253 wrote:

That's How It Is Suppose To Be, But I Don't Know For Sure If That Is How It's Handled??

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I think you're right.

Last year (exactly on May 2021), I noticed that some of my listings labeled as "Sponsored" at my store which not supposed to be (watch the photos down below), the "Sponsored" listings should not appearing at store.

I talked with ebay and asked them why some of my listings labeled as "Sponsored" at my store, i even attached my email message with screenshot photos as proof, next day they replied "I reviewed your eBay store for the promoted listing visible in the screen shot that you shared and i did not find options to promote ."

So after i checked ebay's message, The "Sponsored" labels disappeared from my listings at my store.

[nuclearomen]

@aqeeqsouq 
THAT is not suppose to happen - for sure! 
Sounds to me like the norm, ebay makes so many changes that causes things to be wacky and glitch etc... where some people will experience these really weird things and others things are running normal. I can say though that is first time I ever heard someone saying sponsored appeared on their store and had screens to back it... and if they did that now, since they changed profiles, visitors auto land at your store if you have one.