Paypal UA updates, just hit my inbox

[southern*sweet*tea]

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/ua/upcoming-policies-full

Some of the more interesting highlights:

• We’re no longer going to offer the Pay After Delivery product so we are removing terms related to that product from the user agreement. 
• We’re clarifying that when purchasing or sending money, we may require a backup payment method for your transaction(s) to be used if the selected payment method is declined, expired or otherwise unavailable.
• We’re updating the additional requirements for coverage of Unauthorized Transactions for sellers under our Seller Protection program to require that the payment must have been made in connection with a transaction where the buyer logged into their PayPal account to complete the transaction in order for sellers to be covered under the program.
• We’re adding terms that apply to marketplace sellers.  If you sell on a marketplace and accept payment through your PayPal account, a hold may be placed on a payment sent to you at the instruction of the marketplace.
• For business accounts, we are changing the fee charged for our faster withdrawal option to an eligible debit card linked to your PayPal account to 1% of the transferred amount.
• We’re changing the balance functionality for your PayPal account depending on whether we have been able to verify identifying information that you provide to us. 
  • If we have not verified your identifying information, a balance in your PayPal account can generally only be held in your PayPal account and transferred to a linked bank account or debit card.
  • If we have verified your identifying information, a balance in your PayPal account can be held in your PayPal account, transferred to a linked bank account or debit card, used to make purchases or send money to others.

[ted_200]

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@where*you*crowinwrote:

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@lookng2015wrote:
So basically PayPal is saying they're not offering SELLER protection if the BUYER doesn't use PayPal....nice.

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That will not be a problem as long as sellers will ave the ability to deal directly with the CC companies in the event of a chargeback to protect themselves.  Is that going to happen?

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I don't think so... there's no details yet. 

But I sell elsewhere where Adyen runs the payment thing, and any cc chargebacks there are fought by the venue, the seller cannot deal with the cc companies at all... they submit their "evidence" to the venue, like we'd submit our evidence to PayPal today.  So it is likely that eBay will be fighting cc chargebacks, they will be the merchant of record.  Hard to say how well they'll do this, but I'm pretty sure they're going to pass the hit back to the seller when/if they lose. 

[lookng2015]

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@southern*sweet*teawrote:

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@ted_200wrote:

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@lookng2015wrote:
So basically PayPal is saying they're not offering SELLER protection if the BUYER doesn't use PayPal....nice.

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Actually, that kinda makes sense to me.

And we have to rely JUST on eBay's address given and hope payment has actually been made rather than being able to check with PP as we do now.

That may well be the situation once Adyen takes over too.  We won't have an Adyen account to check, and the PayPal account that's receiving the payment will belong to eBay not you.   eBay is going to have to will need to should take responsibility for the address with all the payments, not just PayPal's. 

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The thing with Adyen, though, is they use AVS - they actually address verify the CC before it's accepted...or declined. If the card doesn't match the address on file with the CC company the payment won't go through.  That's what real credit card processors do.  I could be wrong, but I don't think Paypal does that.

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Does that mean no more "gift addresses" on eBay then?

What about those using reshippers?

[lookng2015]

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@ted_200wrote:

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@where*you*crowinwrote:

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@lookng2015wrote:
So basically PayPal is saying they're not offering SELLER protection if the BUYER doesn't use PayPal....nice.

---

That will not be a problem as long as sellers will ave the ability to deal directly with the CC companies in the event of a chargeback to protect themselves.  Is that going to happen?

---

I don't think so... there's no details yet. 

But I sell elsewhere where Adyen runs the payment thing, and any cc chargebacks there are fought by the venue, the seller cannot deal with the cc companies at all... they submit their "evidence" to the venue, like we'd submit our evidence to PayPal today.  So it is likely that eBay will be fighting cc chargebacks, they will be the merchant of record.  Hard to say how well they'll do this, but I'm pretty sure they're going to pass the hit back to the seller when/if they lose. 

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We already know how well eBay "fights" for the seller.

[threshold.sales.group]

Fwiw, this pretty much guts the protection against unauthorized use if paid by credit card. 

[jennbisho_13]

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@ted_200wrote:

Sounds like they must have had some sort of real problem with fraudulent accounts spending balances that didn't exist, or have some sort of illegal money transfer/money laundering issue they're trying to solve. 

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Perhaps too many fake e-checks?

I know that was a huge problem for a while.

[gymbo_limbo]

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@missjen831wrote:

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@banana*shoe*boutiquewrote:

• For business accounts, we are changing the fee charged for our faster withdrawal option to an eligible debit card linked to your PayPal account to 1% of the transferred amount."

Here's an argument to not "upgrade" to business.  Everyone pays a quarter but businesses pay 1%?

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Can you downgrade your account? I upgraded mine while messing around with the settings. I didn’t intend to go through with it but there was no way out so I had to complete the process before I could use my account. And wouldn’t you know it, without telling me first my husband upgraded his just so he could get a card reader to take electronic payments for our daughters Girl Scout cookie sales! 

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This struck me as adorable. If I could I would be getting cookies from your daughter and her dad just for this reason! I hope she (they) earned a patch!

[penguins_dont_fly]

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@missjen831wrote:

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@banana*shoe*boutiquewrote:

• For business accounts, we are changing the fee charged for our faster withdrawal option to an eligible debit card linked to your PayPal account to 1% of the transferred amount."

Here's an argument to not "upgrade" to business.  Everyone pays a quarter but businesses pay 1%?

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Can you downgrade your account? I upgraded mine while messing around with the settings. I didn’t intend to go through with it but there was no way out so I had to complete the process before I could use my account. And wouldn’t you know it, without telling me first my husband upgraded his just so he could get a card reader to take electronic payments for our daughters Girl Scout cookie sales! 

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@missjen831 and @banana*shoe*boutique

This is not referring to the PayPal Debit Card (business account)

This refers to the new option that they rolled out last year ... you can transfer your money directly to one of those pre-paid Visa/Mastercard debit cards that aren't attached to a physical bank account.

If you choose the "faster withdrawal" method (same day) to that type of account they charge a fee....

[penguins_dont_fly]

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@southern*sweet*teawrote:

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@ted_200wrote:

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@lookng2015wrote:
So basically PayPal is saying they're not offering SELLER protection if the BUYER doesn't use PayPal....nice.

---

Actually, that kinda makes sense to me.

And we have to rely JUST on eBay's address given and hope payment has actually been made rather than being able to check with PP as we do now.

That may well be the situation once Adyen takes over too.  We won't have an Adyen account to check, and the PayPal account that's receiving the payment will belong to eBay not you.   eBay is going to have to will need to should take responsibility for the address with all the payments, not just PayPal's. 

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The thing with Adyen, though, is they use AVS - they actually address verify the CC before it's accepted...or declined. If the card doesn't match the address on file with the CC company the payment won't go through.  That's what real credit card processors do.  I could be wrong, but I don't think Paypal does that.

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I've had PayPal decline a CC payment from a Buyer ... I don't know if it was based on the address or something else (it never came through eBay at all)

[threshold.sales.group]

Fwiw, logging into a paypal account and then paying via credit card is apples v. oranges to paypal just processing the cc transaction.  Logging into paypal to pay and then choosing the pay via credit card option (paypal default is your paypal balance) is a pain and back to the future stuff.  My guess is that buyers won't see the difference, but to sellers it's a major transfer of risk.  Paypal sticking it to ebay & ebay sellers.  Hopefully ebay will follow up with a plan to cover sellers asap. 

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@nowthatsjustduckywrote:

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@southern*sweet*teawrote:

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@banana*shoe*boutiquewrote:

Here's an argument to not "upgrade" to business.  Everyone pays a quarter but businesses pay 1%?

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That's for the fast withdrawal to debit card. I've never had to use it since my bank transfers take 24 hours or less.  That's $20 for a $200 transfer

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1% of $200 is $2, not $20.

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Sorry, I forgot my math hat last night I need to stop posting while sleeping.

 I swear I don't know where that zero came from! Ebay must have added it when I wasn't looking!

[d-k_treasures]

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@threshold.sales.groupwrote:

Fwiw, logging into a paypal account and then paying via credit card is apples v. oranges to paypal just processing the cc transaction.  Logging into paypal to pay and then choosing the pay via credit card option (paypal default is your paypal balance) is a pain and back to the future stuff.  My guess is that buyers won't see the difference, but to sellers it's a major transfer of risk.  Paypal sticking it to ebay & ebay sellers.  Hopefully ebay will follow up with a plan to cover sellers asap. 

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Thanks for the laugh of the day!

[dhbookds]

Sellers will automatically lose all cases. (Chargebacks)

No, I don't think so......  I think either we will have to deal with cc companies on chargebacks or Ebay will.....

I wonder how it works on Amazon..........if anyone knows........

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@penguins_dont_flywrote:

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@southern*sweet*teawrote:

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@ted_200wrote:

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@lookng2015wrote:
So basically PayPal is saying they're not offering SELLER protection if the BUYER doesn't use PayPal....nice.

---

Actually, that kinda makes sense to me.

And we have to rely JUST on eBay's address given and hope payment has actually been made rather than being able to check with PP as we do now.

That may well be the situation once Adyen takes over too.  We won't have an Adyen account to check, and the PayPal account that's receiving the payment will belong to eBay not you.   eBay is going to have to will need to should take responsibility for the address with all the payments, not just PayPal's. 

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The thing with Adyen, though, is they use AVS - they actually address verify the CC before it's accepted...or declined. If the card doesn't match the address on file with the CC company the payment won't go through.  That's what real credit card processors do.  I could be wrong, but I don't think Paypal does that.

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I've had PayPal decline a CC payment from a Buyer ... I don't know if it was based on the address or something else (it never came through eBay at all)

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I've had a debit card payment declined before. The sale showed in Ebay as unpaid, but didn't show at all in Paypal on my side. something like that if I'm remembering right. I called about it and was told that the customer's debit card was declined for not enough funds. I had to file a UID.

They may have added AVS at some point, then. I know at some point CCs and debit cards were only verified on Paypal's side, the address registered to the Paypal had to match the CC used. With AVS the address has to match the address on file with the CC company.

[renegade-chance]

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@lookng2015wrote:
So basically if they pay on eBay using a cc, or later when the Adyen system goes into effect, those transactions won't be covered under PP seller protection?

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What it is referring to is the "Send and Request Money" area.    Too many people sell items and use this feature to get payment and bypass the Paypal transaction fees... ...losing Paypal money.

So any unauthorized transactions filed because a buyer paid a seller with this link instead of linked to a transaction or a Paypal invoice... ...means the seller has no protection.

Guest buyers that checkout with payment for eBay transactions are NOT included.

[renegade-chance]

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@moo*cow*cornerwrote:

I'm reading it the same way.

A good example would be an ebay guest buyer who pays at checkout with their CC, without a PP account being involved.

The payment is processed by Paypal, but PP has no way to recoup any losses if the payment goes bad and the seller falls under Seller Protection (ship to PP address, tracking and siggy over $750, etc.).

They are now passing that risk onto the sellers by taking away seller protections for those transactions. Wonder if this applies to INR's...very interesting.

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No.