mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
Regards,
@no_zero369 wrote:OK, bear with me..... more thoughts.....
@mam98031 wrote:
The other reason, the bigger reason for me is that Ebay now strongly recommends that a buyer open a claim whenever there is an issue with a transactions. This was NOT Ebay's position before the Service Metrics started and this new and disaster of a return system. But in an effort to support the Service Metrics, Ebay now wants all issues that a buyer has to result in a claim against the seller. Ebay does still encourage us to resolve the claim before it gets escalated, but claims are being opened when one just doesn't need to exist.
@mr_lincoln Wrote:
True that nothing is mandated but certain actions come with pros and cons and those posting are sharing from their knowledge, experience and flat out opinion based on how they see business should be conducted. Some posted that eBay will read correspondence and make a decision on whether or not a 100% (or 80% or higher if memory serves) PP Refund warrants a defect on the Seller's account or not. eBay Team Members on some subjects have even stated they take the individual account's history in to consideration when making certain decisions, yep, they've made that kind of statement on their Weekly Chat.
OK, not trying to be a wise acre or anything. But it seems like I need to alter the standard message I send to buyers and to board posters. No more short and sweet - please return for a refund, but something else looks like it is needed?
Dear Buyer,
Sorry you are unhappy with the widget. Please go to the eBay Resolution Center and file a return case. Once the widget is returned, we will happily issue a refund.
Seller
I don’t know but that sounds less buyer friendly to me, and isn't this approach ripe for miss use?
So am I reading this right? eBay is willing to ding the seller, when it is the buyer’s responsibility to file through the resolution center? So does that mean we have to manage what the buyer does and how they do it when seeking a return?
In a nutshell...YES...!!
@no_zero369 I agree with @mam98031 that "yes" at times Sellers literally have to "coach" Buyers into processing a return AND picking a reason that does not hurt the Seller ... which is more often the truth. You have probably already figured out the metrics Sellers are measured on are highly subjective, they rely on the honesty of the Buyer. For example, eBay still has "No returns accepted" on the listing form ... seriously? Yep, so Buyers learned with eBay's help how to negate that with a SNAD claim forcing Sellers to pay return shipping. So why bother having the setting right? eBay actually created an environment that promotes lying by Buyers pure and simple. To me that is morally and ethically sickening, low down dirty not to mention 20 floors below unprofessional.
I have NO problem with the following message from a Buyer when they don't want the item: "I've changed my mind and would like to return the item" ... that's all I need, I would message them that they need to use the tool eBay provides (you might want to consider this wording for your message to Buyers), The Resolution center, link at the bottom of most pages. They will need to grab the Item Number from the item in their Purchase History because eBay will ask for it as part of the return process. I tell Buyers that all I need to know is that they changed their minds and will accept the return. If other posters have problems with that I really don't care because at the end of the day no matter what reason is given it is subjective, MAY OR MAY NOT be the truth and SORRY, Sellers should NOT be measured on subjective metrics ... period.
@myjunqueyourtreasure wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@goodluckselling wrote:eBay staff has told us that returns need to be done through the returns flow process. Full refunds issued to buyers outside this path will result in a possible out of stock cancellation defect.
They also said if there is communications through the eBay message system prior explaining you plan to issue a full refund, that eBay might review that communications and remove a defect.
If you just refund outside the return process I do not think there is a way for eBay to credit you back the fees. This would be an action you took on your own. No way to attach your action to anything?
Good Luck Selling!
You're right. Ebay has stated they prefer that cases be opened and that returns be handled through the return process. This is for both buyer and seller protection, so it is best to comply with this as goodluckselling states.
How is it good for seller when it gives them a ding on their return metrics?
I agree. Ebay CHANGED the recommendation just before they launched the Service Metrics. They use to tell us it was good to work with our buyers for a resolution through the Ebay emails. Now it is all about the Service metrics.
I have no need or desire to self inflict damage to my business. It defies logic to do that and it is so odd that Ebay somehow sees this as a positive thing.
As I've said before. It is micro managing gone WILD!! I am perfectly willing, able and capable of taking care of the needs of my customers. I don't need Ebay to breath down my neck to make sure I take care of my customers in the way they feel is best. As long as my customer is happy and feels good about the transaction, that is what matters. Ebay's need to support a new process that is ill conceived and full of secrets is just not my cup of tea.
@bigdeals.etc wrote:
@no_zero369 wrote:So I don't get it. eBay encourages buyers and sellers to work things out jointly.
It sounds like posters are stating that eBay gives defects for PP refunds outside of the resolution center? Can someone help me find this in the guidance for sellers/policies?
So how are service metrics effected for returns that follow the process? (% of returns, per category)
I can only speak for myself here and no one else. I've refunded buyers in full thru Paypal. It's usually because the buyer just sent the item back to me without any communication but included a note that they wanted to return for a refund. A few other times, the buyer is just adamant about not filing a return... guess they are old fashioned and prefer to deal with me versus "open a can of worms" and involve ebay.
I can confidently say that I've never received a defect for doing this. I see that many here say that you may be prone to one, but I'll be more cautious with this when I see it happening to my account. Still, I can't recommend anyone do this since I can't guarantee the same outcome. Just an FYI. I guess one can always just test for themselves... but don't be surprised if your outcome is not favorable. And again, as far as I know this isn't against policy. I double checked with my CS agent when I called them recently about a different issue.
I believe one reason why ebay has moved from the "work with your buyer" to preferring the buyer file a return even without messaging the buyer... is because there is an overall lack of trust from ebay to sellers to follow thru completely with the returns/refunds process. Lack of trust of the sellers, and ebay trying to ease the general buyer paranoia that they are going to get ripped off by sellers.
Everything you've said here is correct and is my experience as well.
Do you just eat your FVFs when you do this, file for a cancellation or call Ebay to get your FVF refunded?
@no_zero369 wrote:
I just got done reading , thanks for pointing me in that direction!
Also wanted to say thanks for bringing this issue up and being such a great advocate for sellers! You did a good job of representing a view that I agree with!
What is frustrating as one who reads and tries to follow the rules is that eBay has not codified the views expressed in policy statements. What of the thousands of sellers that do not read threads or ask questions or like me do some general thinking and ask about it? Seems like built in Catch 22.
I understand why eBay has seller metrics - likely a response to the many legacy sellers and legacy ways of doing business that need to be changed, but when it is set up such that ALL sellers get dinged for doing the right thing, it sure seems like an adjustment is needed.
I'm glad I could shed a little light on the subject. That was what I was trying to do. BTW, check out the Chats before or after that one. There was 2-3 weeks in a row that I brought up stuff about this as the chats would end before all questions or concerns were addressed.
In one of those chat was the loose definition of Recommendation that Ebay is using.
@bigdeals.etc wrote:
@no_zero369 wrote:So I don't get it. eBay encourages buyers and sellers to work things out jointly.
It sounds like posters are stating that eBay gives defects for PP refunds outside of the resolution center? Can someone help me find this in the guidance for sellers/policies?
So how are service metrics effected for returns that follow the process? (% of returns, per category)
I can only speak for myself here and no one else. I've refunded buyers in full thru Paypal. It's usually because the buyer just sent the item back to me without any communication but included a note that they wanted to return for a refund. A few other times, the buyer is just adamant about not filing a return... guess they are old fashioned and prefer to deal with me versus "open a can of worms" and involve ebay.
How can this happen?
You must be a terrible seller because you didn't control or manage your buyers actions!
(hope the dry sarcastic humor translates here?)
I can confidently say that I've never received a defect for doing this. I see that many here say that you may be prone to one, but I'll be more cautious with this when I see it happening to my account. Still, I can't recommend anyone do this since I can't guarantee the same outcome. Just an FYI. I guess one can always just test for themselves... but don't be surprised if your outcome is not favorable. And again, as far as I know this isn't against policy. I double checked with my CS agent when I called them recently about a different issue.
But wait! It isn't against eBay policy? Huh.
I believe one reason why ebay has moved from the "work with your buyer" to preferring the buyer file a return even without messaging the buyer... is because there is an overall lack of trust from ebay to sellers to follow thru completely with the returns/refunds process. Lack of trust of the sellers, and ebay trying to ease the general buyer paranoia that they are going to get ripped off by sellers.
I can appreciate what eBay is dealing with. A base of sellers with selling styles that are from yesteryear, which do not match expectation of "new buyers!" We certainly see a lot of that on the selling boards when an "old" seller bumps into the MBG. As I have said before, I suspect that 80% of the CS time/demand is from 20% of the sellers. Seems like there could be accommodation for successful outcomes regardless of method.
@no_zero369 wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:
@myjunqueyourtreasure wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@goodluckselling wrote:eBay staff has told us that returns need to be done through the returns flow process. Full refunds issued to buyers outside this path will result in a possible out of stock cancellation defect.
They also said if there is communications through the eBay message system prior explaining you plan to issue a full refund, that eBay might review that communications and remove a defect.
If you just refund outside the return process I do not think there is a way for eBay to credit you back the fees. This would be an action you took on your own. No way to attach your action to anything?
Good Luck Selling!
You're right. Ebay has stated they prefer that cases be opened and that returns be handled through the return process. This is for both buyer and seller protection, so it is best to comply with this as goodluckselling states.
How is it good for seller when it gives them a ding on their return metrics?
I agree. Ebay CHANGED the recommendation just before they launched the Service Metrics. They use to tell us it was good to work with our buyers for a resolution through the Ebay emails. Now it is all about the Service metrics.
I have no need or desire to self inflict damage to my business. It defies logic to do that and it is so odd that Ebay somehow sees this as a positive thing.
As I've said before. It is micro managing gone WILD!! I am perfectly willing, able and capable of taking care of the needs of my customers. I don't need Ebay to breath down my neck to make sure I take care of my customers in the way they feel is best. As long as my customer is happy and feels good about the transaction, that is what matters. Ebay's need to support a new process that is ill conceived and full of secrets is just not my cup of tea.
So the current unwritten directive that sellers MUST steer, request or force buyers to use the Resolution Center for returns.
Doesn't doing that and having a success return has effects on the service metrics? If it is a SNAD, one gets that "service metric" ding. If one doesn't resolve the issue, whether a SNAD or not (& eBAy steps in), one gets an unresolved issue defect. But ALL returns get a "service metric" ding under the returns metric, no?
So that got me thinking.... what IF someone was selling in one category, but decides to start selling in a second category. Let's say their first sale results in a return (for whatever reason). What then? Now the seller has a 100% return rate in their service metrics for that category! Certainly that would be above "peers"? Wouldn't that result in some kind of selling penalty (+40% FVF)?
Yes to your first two paragraphs.
No to the third. That isn't quite how the Service Metrics works. Before they start comparing you to your peers and determine if you are in the danger zone for penalty fees, you have to have a minimum of 10 SNADs in any ONE category.
