mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@no_zero369 wrote:
@castlemagicmemories wrote:
@myjunqueyourtreasure wrote:How is it good for seller when it gives them a ding on their return metrics?
Because Ebay is part of the process and records the issues. If a buyer is abusing the system, this way they would be aware and could take action on it.
If a seller is abusing the system, same thing. If either goes outside of the system, there is no record of this abuse, and both buyer and seller may then act improperly. Thus for the protection of each.
Me thinks this is the crux of the matter. Forcing ALL returns through "the process" assumes all buyers and sellers are suspect.
What I think the other sellers here are arguing is that when a buyer acts responsibly and sends a return on their own dime or volition (for whatever reason), punishing the seller makes little sense! For those buyers that want to complain about a bad seller after the buyer has acted outside of "the process" and MBG protections..... well..... ahem.
Wouldn't a buyer being proactive and communicating with a seller be a sign that the return isn't going to be "one of those" returns that needs eBay protections? So why punish a seller with an OOS defect and a returns ding when the buyer spent his own dime to return something, and requested a refund?
What does a seller do in that situation? Something like this:
Dear Buyer:
Thank you for taking the initiative and returning the widget and requesting a return!
Unfortunately we can not issue you a refund until you file a return request through the eBay system. When that happens, we will gladly issue you a refund.
If you have any questions about this process, please contact eBay Customer Service via telephone (see Help & Contact) or through a message associated with ebay's Facebook page.
We apologize for any inconvenience, but are just trying to properly follow eBay's policies and procedures!
Seller
How would you feel as an average unaware buyer if you got the above message or some form of it? (perhaps there is better verbiage - if so I am all "ears!")
Problem with creating "rules" or laws is that often they have unintended negative consequences for those who are "the good guys" to start with.
It is important to remember that when the so called recommendations of Ebay CHANGED, was just ahead of the Service Metrics being introduced. That is NOT a coincidence from my point of view.
Before the Service Metrics, Ebay had no problem with buyers and sellers resolving issues without using the claims process. That does NOT mean it is outside the system as they are now calling it. We are still within the system. Just not in the way they want us to.
Further in the cancellation process we use to have a reason we could select that was because we refunded the buyer. That is gone now as well when they revamped the process.
All stuff to consider.
@no_zero369 wrote:
@judydu2 wrote:
bigdeals.etc. wrote "I can confidently say that I've never received a defect for doing this."
This has been my experience.OK, but have you just lost your FVF fees or done something to get a refund?
(Sorry if this has been asked before!)
I can't answer for Judy, but I can answer for myself. Yes I have. But it hasn't been an amount that caused me any concern whatsoever. The couple of times it has been enough for me to be concerned with, I've called Ebay and gotten a refund on the FVF since the cancellation process has changed and there is now no valid reason we can pick to use the cancellation process.
@no_zero369 wrote:
@mam98031 wrote:I can't answer for Judy, but I can answer for myself. Yes I have. But it hasn't been an amount that caused me any concern whatsoever. The couple of times it has been enough for me to be concerned with, I've called Ebay and gotten a refund on the FVF since the cancellation process has changed and there is now no valid reason we can pick to use the cancellation process.
er, hope this doesn't sound wonky... but did you end up getting an OOS defect or a "return" noted on your service metrics as a result of contacting eBay and requesting FVF refund?
Good point on canceling the transaction! That as I asked in OP would be en efficient way to handle things, but sadly it is gone.
No that hasn't happened to me, knock on wood!!! But the fact is that the CSRs are saying it can. So we must all take that into consideration.
@Anonymous wrote:
@bigdeals.etc wrote:
@goodluckselling wrote:eBay staff has told us that returns need to be done through the returns flow process. Full refunds issued to buyers outside this path will result in a possible out of stock cancellation defect.
They also said if there is communications through the eBay message system prior explaining you plan to issue a full refund, that eBay might review that communications and remove a defect.
If you just refund outside the return process I do not think there is a way for eBay to credit you back the fees. This would be an action you took on your own. No way to attach your action to anything?
Good Luck Selling!
I don't agree with everything here. There's no policy that says returns need to be handled within ebay returns process. I double checked and asked my CS agent a few times, they all said going outside of eBay to do this isn't against policy... but it's risky for the seller. I agree with the agents that it is indeed risky, but allowed.
A full refund issued thru PayPal shouldn't cause an OOS cancellation defect. Because as far as eBay is concerned, the transaction didn't get cancelled and linked tracking info still shows the item was delivered. You just lose your FVF.
I don't recommend anyone do this method, but there may be weird circumstances that I'm not aware of in which someone might want to do this. So to answer the OPs questions: 1) Yes. 2) Generally no, but you might get lucky if you talk to the right agent.
Hi @bigdeals.etc, a full refund (which for the purposes of this topic include any refund of 80% or more of the payment) through PayPal without a corresponding eBay Money Back Guarantee claim or a cancellation can lead to an Out Of Stock defect being recorded. This was stated in the 2015 Seller Update where defects were first announced, more details here. There are some scenarios where a cancellation, item not received request, or return request would not be the best fit or are not available and in these situations, as long as there is communication between the buyer and the seller via eBay messages about the refund, an OOS defect will not be recorded.
@Anonymous
This is a change over Ebay's position on this subject that was extensively discussed on the Weekly Chat most recently in mid February. My opinion on this has always been the same and I feel strongly about is as you are painfully aware.
Before the Service Metrics, as long as the seller communicated with the buyer within the Ebay email system regarding a refund not covered by an open claim, the seller was fine. No defects. So I see we are going back to that, which I personally think is appropriate.
So this also means that while Ebay "recommends" that a claim always be opened it is still a recommendation and not a requirement as was previously thought and communicated to us on the Weekly Chat and various other threads?
From the link you provided: Any transaction cancelled through eBay or refunded through PayPal because the seller no longer has the item or chooses not to ship the item will count in the defect rate as a seller-cancelled transaction. Transactions that are cancelled because the buyer no longer wants the item are not counted in the defect rate.
Will Ebay give sellers back a reason in the cancellation process to accommodate this as it was taken away last year?
@fab_finds4u wrote:Here it is, in black and white- not info from a CSR, but from eBay
What should I do if a buyer contacts me through email or by phone to return an item instead of going through eBay?
If a buyer contacts you directly, advise them to request the return in My eBay. Doing so helps safeguard both you and your buyer by giving eBay visibility into the transaction in the event that we need to step in and help. It’s also important to remember that if you issue a PayPal refund without a return request through the eBay return process, eBay may conclude that you have cancelled the transaction, which would count as a defect.
https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/getting-paid/cancelling-transaction?id=4136
See Trinton's post # 39.
@mam98031 wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@bigdeals.etc wrote:
@goodluckselling wrote:eBay staff has told us that returns need to be done through the returns flow process. Full refunds issued to buyers outside this path will result in a possible out of stock cancellation defect.
They also said if there is communications through the eBay message system prior explaining you plan to issue a full refund, that eBay might review that communications and remove a defect.
If you just refund outside the return process I do not think there is a way for eBay to credit you back the fees. This would be an action you took on your own. No way to attach your action to anything?
Good Luck Selling!
I don't agree with everything here. There's no policy that says returns need to be handled within ebay returns process. I double checked and asked my CS agent a few times, they all said going outside of eBay to do this isn't against policy... but it's risky for the seller. I agree with the agents that it is indeed risky, but allowed.
A full refund issued thru PayPal shouldn't cause an OOS cancellation defect. Because as far as eBay is concerned, the transaction didn't get cancelled and linked tracking info still shows the item was delivered. You just lose your FVF.
I don't recommend anyone do this method, but there may be weird circumstances that I'm not aware of in which someone might want to do this. So to answer the OPs questions: 1) Yes. 2) Generally no, but you might get lucky if you talk to the right agent.
Hi @bigdeals.etc, a full refund (which for the purposes of this topic include any refund of 80% or more of the payment) through PayPal without a corresponding eBay Money Back Guarantee claim or a cancellation can lead to an Out Of Stock defect being recorded. This was stated in the 2015 Seller Update where defects were first announced, more details here. There are some scenarios where a cancellation, item not received request, or return request would not be the best fit or are not available and in these situations, as long as there is communication between the buyer and the seller via eBay messages about the refund, an OOS defect will not be recorded.
@Anonymous
This is a change over Ebay's position on this subject that was extensively discussed on the Weekly Chat most recently in mid February. My opinion on this has always been the same and I feel strongly about is as you are painfully aware.
Before the Service Metrics, as long as the seller communicated with the buyer within the Ebay email system regarding a refund not covered by an open claim, the seller was fine. No defects. So I see we are going back to that, which I personally think is appropriate.
So this also means that while Ebay "recommends" that a claim always be opened it is still a recommendation and not a requirement as was previously thought and communicated to us on the Weekly Chat and various other threads?
From the link you provided: Any transaction cancelled through eBay or refunded through PayPal because the seller no longer has the item or chooses not to ship the item will count in the defect rate as a seller-cancelled transaction. Transactions that are cancelled because the buyer no longer wants the item are not counted in the defect rate.
Will Ebay give sellers back a reason in the cancellation process to accommodate this as it was taken away last year?
@Anonymous
Just a little bump as I'd like a response / clarification to this as it is an important issue for sellers.
