Obviously fake police report submitted to ebay, ebay using it to deny my claim. Any recourse?

[wowsource]

Pretty much at wits end here. Here's what happened:

1) Sold a Garmin Fenix watch on Ebay for $690 to a buyer with an account opened end of September 2020 with no feedback. I'm a top rated seller with perfect 900+ feedback, 10+ year old account.

2) Buyer claims the box was empty on receipt

3) I contact buyer twice for more information, he does not respond.

4) eBay rules in buyers favor, takes $690 from my account. Found out later that he is also using an address that has been reported multiple times. I appeal but eBay say's buyer filed a "police report" so they have to rule in their favor.

5) Managed to get a copy of the police report from eBay. It is obviously fake. The police department doesn't exist, the address is of an empty residential building on zillow, and the phone leads to a voicemail that says "You have dialed police department" in Eastern European accent.

6) Tried to file an appeal and get denied again, they claim that they determined the "police report" was legitimate.

I tried to contact them via twitter, tried multiple times through the phone, and via email. Anyone have any idea what I can do? Does anyone have an experience with small claims or arbitration against ebay?

TL:DR : Buyer submits obviously fake police report to eBay, eBay claims it is legitimate and uses it to steal $690 from me.

[donsdetour]

How do you know this police report is fake??

[wowsource]

How do I know the police report is fake? I've attached it and it's obvious.

1) The police department name "hueviy police department" does not show up on google. Calls to Denver State Police, Dover Police, Wilmington police confirm that a "Hueviy Police Department" does not exist. There is no city or jurisdiction named "hueviy". It is an invented term with SEO tricks to point google to Dover police department.

2) The address is not of a police department

3) There are misspellings in the form (not in the entered text). No information about victim entered like contact #.

4) The item (verbally dictated) is "Garmin Fenix 6X Carbon Gray DLC with Black Band Multisport GPS Watch Sapphire", which is a copy-paste of the item title, along with the same capitilization.

5) The phone number leads to voicemail that answers "You have dialed police department" in an eastern european accent.

6) The police department address is in a city (Dover) that is in a different jurisdiction than the location (Wilmington)

7) The Address 403 Meco Drive is not "residence/home" like in the report, it is a freight forwarding location.

😎 I'm told the police officer's name "Pidorka" is Russian/Ukrainian slang/swear.

[wowsource]

Didn't consider talking to city council/mayor's office to get the police to take a report. Thanks for the suggestion, I'm putting it on the list of options. 

[patd3283]

What does it say about the amount of fraud on this site that most of the police departments are just washing their hands of it?

[ittybitnot]

 why did they have to manufacture a fake police report? They also provided no evidence to me that the package was tampered. 

Historically speaking, buyers are not required to provide "evidence" to  sellers or ebay.  All they need to do is select something from the dropdown menu that indicates a "not as described" issue.  The "empty box" is such an issue, and typically an auto win for the buyer.   Thus the comments up thread of why a police report was needed at all, when an empty box claim is all that is needed. 

Keep in mind as well, that ebay no longer considers any "evidence" a seller may submit to counter any not as described claim.   The process is basically automated, and the outcome quite predictable. 

I have seen a very few instances in the past where reportedly ebay would require the buyer to get a "police" report, but do not know if a refund is denied if that report is not forthcoming.  Obviously, the veracity of the submitted report is not questioned. 

The "buyer" in this instance is not in the US.  They likely could not get a real police report.  If they had claimed "item not working" they would be required to ship something back to the US, so the empty box claim was tried instead and apparently successful, but not as trouble free as usual  for the buyer. 

There is no seller protection for not as described claims, regardless of your tenure and reputation as a seller, what your description and photos depict, or anything else.   I have a feeling you were going to lose regardless of the reshipper issue or the phony report as soon as the buyer clicked the SNAD choice.  eBay has taken the stance that losses due to  "buyer fraud" are part of doing business on the net (for the seller).

Never post anything for sale here that you are not willing to lose.  
Truly sorry you are having to deal with this. 

[creeg1]

Regarding new buyers who make a purchase the same day they open an account: I’ve sold many items to buyers in the U.S. and Europe who opened their account the same day they made a purchase from me. I am suspicious when it happens but have not had problems with them so far.

The ones I have problems with are usually those who have had an account for open for several years but have zero feedback or less than 5 feedbacks. Also, buyers that never leave feedback for sellers can be problematic.

[valueaddedresource]

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@creeg1 wrote:

Regarding new buyers who make a purchase the same day they open an account: I’ve sold many items to buyers in the U.S. and Europe who opened their account the same day they made a purchase from me. I am suspicious when it happens but have not had problems with them so far.

The ones I have problems with are usually those who have had an account for open for several years but have zero feedback or less than 5 feedbacks. Also, buyers that never leave feedback for sellers can be problematic.

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Also remember that eBay does not differentiate between truly new accounts and guest checkout accounts - they will both appear as newly created 0 feedback user IDs.

Bad actors know about the guest checkout loophole and will often use it to circumvent blocked buyer lists and/or hide history of past shady activity.

eBay is very aware of how fraudsters use guest checkout to their advantage, they just don't seem to care.

[valueaddedresource]

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@valueaddedresource wrote:

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@creeg1 wrote:

Regarding new buyers who make a purchase the same day they open an account: I’ve sold many items to buyers in the U.S. and Europe who opened their account the same day they made a purchase from me. I am suspicious when it happens but have not had problems with them so far.

The ones I have problems with are usually those who have had an account for open for several years but have zero feedback or less than 5 feedbacks. Also, buyers that never leave feedback for sellers can be problematic.

---

Also remember that eBay does not differentiate between truly new accounts and guest checkout accounts - they will both appear as newly created 0 feedback user IDs.

Bad actors know about the guest checkout loophole and will often use it to circumvent blocked buyer lists and/or hide history of past shady activity.

eBay is very aware of how fraudsters use guest checkout to their advantage, they just don't seem to care.

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And those accounts that were created over a year ago with little to no feedback could possibly be dormant accounts that were compromised/hijacked by scammers as well.

[wowsource · Accepted solution]

Update (good news):

1) I contacted @AskEbay via twitter and explained my situation. I explained that the police report was fake and listed the reasons why. I also said that fedex insurance will not help because I can’t present a fake police report as evidence.

2) Initially, they responded to open an insurance claim with the shipping carrier. I objected since I specifically said that insurance will not help because they will not take a fake police report.

3) I asked to escalate the case, they responded that “For this case, I have requested a team to review the details of the case and the reports. I will reach out to you with an update when I hear back. “

4) I added that I filed an ic3.gov report since my local police department doesn’t handle eCommerce crimes.

5) Finally, a couple days later, they said the review was complete and the money was transferred to my paypal account. They didn’t explain what happened or why my appeals were denied, or why it was approved this time. I believe this was done by a higher level team, because the refund was not tied to the ebay transaction. It seems like someone with authority just told the accounts team to send me a check.

Thanks everyone for all their help/suggestions. I hope this doesn’t happen to anyone else in the future.

[wowsource]

If this happens to someone else I would recommend

1) Google the buyer’s address. If it is a freight forwarder or if there are results that suggest mail fraud occurs there, cancel the order.

2) Take videos/serial numbers/pictures of the item in as-advertised condition. Ideally take video of the manufacturer’s sealed box as it is placed into the shipping box and given to the carrier.

3) The scammer will state the box was empty on receipt. They might specifically mention “police report” when they open a case. For example, the scammer said “ I think my item been stolen and will contact with police in soon time.” The scammer will likely not respond to any requests for information.

4) Before the case is closed, accept the return and have him send the item back. If you don’t accept the return, eBay will refund him automatically and ebay will be reluctant to give the money back. Meanwhile, open a buyer report on eBay. Contact eBay and present evidence that you believe the buyer is a scammer, before eBay refunds their money.

5) eBay will likely refund the buyer once the tracking shows the empty box is returned. Appeal the case (via email) and explain the situation, present any proof you have that the item was as described when sent. They will likely deny your appeal. eBay replied with ”I trust that you have shipped the item in good condition …The buyer was able to obtain the police report we requested and this is why this was granted for a refund.”

6) Insist for a copy of the police report from eBay. Talk to your local police department and file your own police report stating that their report is fake, and/or file an ic3.gov report.

7) Request for an appeal of your eBay case again, I was told there were 3 levels of appeals. Armed with your own police report, present your case.

😎 If step 7 doesn’t work, contact Askebay via twitter or ebay for business via Facebook and explain your situation. Include that you have your own police report. They may give you a copy-paste response but it seems like they have the ability to escalate the case and have it reviewed by a competent team. This step worked for me.

9) If step 8 doesn’t work, the remaining options would be: Contact the BBB, contact your local news and see if they have a consumer help department, check if you have any options with your local police, and contact any government agencies that might take a report.

[moondogblues]

"

9) If step 8 doesn’t work, the remaining options would be: Contact the BBB, contact your local news and see if they have a consumer help department, check if you have any options with your local police, and contact any government agencies that might take a report."

I once had to take on the State of California over the Earned Income Credit.  The back and forths lasted for months, even though my son's SS# was right on the tax forms and had been for TEN years.  My final letter I wrote PLEASE DO NOT LET A ROBOT READ THIS...get a human.  On the outside of the envelope.  Twilight Zone time.

And after including all the info for probably the tenth time I added:

CC: my mayor

CC: my senator

CC: several news stations

CC: the governor

CC: several newspapers

Sometimes pulling in the BIG guns helps.  I won.  And no robots were hurt but I hope they were fired.

[furreherai0]

This is why I stick to selling boring stuff like nuts, and springs and washers.

There's not much profit in it, but the less "moving parts" an item contains, the better.

It seems buyers today are easily confused and where moving parts are involved, oh boy.

Even with nuts and bolts we've had buyers claim we sent the wrong size when we in fact did not.

You can't argue with these individuals, they pulled out a ruler and you can clearly see they are measuring metric instead of SAE while claiming it's the wrong size (which tells me they either ordered the wrong size to begin with and either can't or won't admit to their error or they're too stupid to figure out the difference between metric and standard) but I suspect they are actually quite bright and it's all just a way of getting a refund with the shipping covered...

The stupid of it is, we offer free returns.

The shipping's covered anyway!!!

So why LIE??!!!

Or perhaps I should say, why be stupid?

So... I am sorry to see about your situation, I do find the buyer's fake police report interesting, however I suspect the buyer lives in another country and thus there's little fear of prosecution... My question however, is why didn't you accept the return?

If you fight a buyer on a case, they will win.

Every time, they really don't even need a police report.

So, lets see here:

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@wowsource wrote:

1) Sold a Garmin watch on Ebay for $690 to a buyer with an account opened end of September 2020 with no feedback. I'm a top rated seller with perfect 900+ feedback, 10+ year old account.

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None of that matters, if you are focusing on this to determine right and wrong you are in the wrong direction.

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@wowsource wrote:

2) Buyer claims the box was empty on receipt

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Right then you should have approved the return.

No more communication, let them return it.

I suspect you fought this case, and that's why you lost.

@wowsource wrote:

I suspect that since he is a brand new account with zero history, while I am a established account, there is a good chance that ebay would rule in my favor. In addition, I can defend against these INAD claims by taking pictures of the sealed box, or recording video of me packing the sealed box and dropping it off at the post office.

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No.

Again it doesn't matter.

Ebay rules in favor of the buyer 99.999999999% of the time.

Don't fight it, always accept a return immediately, do not speak with the buyer.
Communication such as asking for pictures only adds fuel to the fire.

Just accept a return, and if a buyer has any complaint respond with "I am so sorry please return for a refund."

[7606dennis]

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@bargainnation wrote:

eBay no longer allow sellers to block buyers with zero feedback. At one time sellers could do so but eBay quietly removed that option.

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Actually, I don't believe that eBay ever allowed sellers to block zero feedback buyers.  The could, and still can, block those with a negative feedback score, but not those with a zero score.  Of course, sellers can individually block anyone they wish for any reason by putting them on their BBL.  However, that really isn't feasible on a large scale.

[kako_5344]

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@wowsource wrote:

5) Managed to get a copy of the police report from eBay. It is obviously fake. The police department doesn't exist, the address is of an empty residential building on zillow, and the phone leads to a voicemail that says "You have dialed police department" in Eastern European accent.

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Jeff jfrick@ebay.com, can you escalate this to the Trust department to review?

[mtgraves7984]

"It seems like someone with authority just told the accounts team to send me a check."

@wowsource 

Your reimbursement was generated from a pool that all sellers pay into... of course, your buyer keeps the refund they received, and keeps the item you sent. In a case like yours, I don't mind pitching in to make you whole.

Glad this worked out for you... you only did what you were supposed to do.