Notification of "counter offer" from buyer, however, there was no offer for them to counter?

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

Ok, here is the deal I've run into multiple times now.

I receive an offer from a buyer. Both the notification from my app (Android, if that makes a difference), and the email I receive say "Counter Offer" received from buyer. I immediately go into the listing to "manage offers" to see what offer had I sent them that they are countering. THERE IS NONE (to that buyer). Or at least it shows none. I see all the offers (active, expired and/or declined) I sent to and received from others, but I see no offer sent to this buyer. Normally I can see the offer exchange between a buyer and myself in the form of a thread, however there is none here and I'm inclined to believe this buyer never received an offer from me. 

You may say "so what?" I say, I want to know if I sent this buyer got a discounted offer already or not, to know where I am in the negotiation, that is critical. 

I do see below the notification, in the "body" of the message/notif that it says something about competing offers. My only logical explanation is that I have sent active offers to other buyers, it sees those as competing offers, and a glitch in the software picks it up and calls the new offer from the buyer a counter offer.

I just wish I didn't have to double check/not trust EBay's work to engage in my negotiations. I would love to see "counter offer" and it actually mean counter offer, and I'll know what I've already sent them and if I want to go any lower or not, but the fact that it's wrongly labelled a counter offer impedes my ability in negotiations by providing false info...not to mention I could never know if I already sent that buyer an original offer or not if I didn't get on my computer w/ a browser since the app is "handicapped" in so many ways including that one... (I've resisted posting a thread on here with my wish list for Ebay mobile app features...and I just mean the features the browser has, nothing not already offered somewhere...)

Frustrating...

[pjcdn2005]

Could they have been responding to an offer you sent out to watchers?  I don’t think that you  can see those in the same place as regular offers.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

@pjcdn2005 

Yes offers sent to watchers can be seen in the same place as "regular" offers. They are under "Manage Offers" near the top of a listing that has the "regular" make offer option enabled. All offers are shown in the same place there, there is a side bar on the left with what I call an offer "thread" where if you click on it, it opens the history of offers back and forth, all associated details (price, message, time, date, # of offers remaining for that buyer, etc...)

No he was not responding to an offer I sent out to watchers. I could see those two offers I sent to watchers on the left side bar. His active offer had no offer from me in the thread. Not the first time this has happened to me. 

[albertabrightalberta]

Do your "offers sent" show an offer having been sent to someone with the same feedback count as the person who made a counteroffer? 

[simply-the-best-for-you]

Do you possibly have automated offers set up?  Maybe you tried it once & forgot to turn it off.   

BTW, still doing some research but on the other topic we discussed the other day, I'm actually thinking you're right.  I've also been deep into the Offers help screens tonight & see multiple references to sending offers every 48 hours, when you do the automated offers.  

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

@albertabrightalberta 

Nope. If it was a genuine counter offer it would show up in the same thread of offers. I'm not sure if a buyer is able to by-pass a seller's active offer and click "Make Offer" organically, and I'm not sure how that would affect the continuity of offers if they are able to do that, but either way, yes I did check for that exact reason and no it was not the case. Total of 2 active offers sent to unique buyers other than the individual in question.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

@simply-the-best-for-you 

Nope, never did auto offers, never will. Also, as I just posted (was writing my post as you asked this), there were 2 active offers sent to buyers, other than the buyer in question. If the auto offer was on, which it wasn't, I would then respond with it not being able to send an additional offer to another unique buyer until those initial offers were completed.

Yeah, I should say, I really really really get deep into the "Manage Offers" Screen... like I literally check many of the listings I send offers on immediately after sending the offers, looking to see who I sent the offers to, because I have a couple regular buyers who I can spot immediately even though their identities are "anonymous/encrypted". I also look for patterns if I just got 3 new "send offer eligibles" I like to know if it's 1 person watching 3 items, 3 people watching 1 item each, etc... gives me a little insight into the performance of my listings so I'm not running totally blind and assuming tons of watchers means tons of attention when it could be one person watching tons of my listings.

Yeah...I get way too in depth with this... meh *shrug*

[simply-the-best-for-you]

@ajs_coins_and_alchemy 

Well, I've never seen what you're describing, but after our conversation in the other thread, the other day, I totally believe you.  You clearly know your way around this & even taught me something & I send out a million offers.   Unfortunately, I'm not help in this case, as this has never happened to me.  

I've actually never seen this "Manage Offers" screen you speak of, nor can I find it after a ton of searching.  I came back & re-read what you wrote & if I'm understanding correctly, you must have BO turned on for your listings & when you get into a listing that has BO, you see this "Manage Offers" option.  Do I have that right?  

If so, I do think it's something involving the fact that you allow offers (BO) as well as Send Offers.  I never allow offers & I have never seen this.  As a fellow science-geek, I know you realize that correlation does not equal causation.  It's just the one piece of info I can share with you. 

BTW, just out of curiosity, does this manage offers screen give you a date/time stamp for when you SEND an offer?  As I'm trying to prove or disprove the other thing we discussed, I would really like to see this info, but all I can see is when an offer expired, not when it was sent.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

@simply-the-best-for-you 

(I need to dissect this and respond to each part ... sorry for length)

That is correct, if BO is enabled you have "Manage Offers".

If you do not have BO enabled you'll see the blue banner across the top saying "Your item is for sale".

If you have BO enabled, it will be blue and say "Your item is for sale | Manage Offers" (if no offers are pending) OR it will be green and say "You sent X Offers. | Manage Offers" (if offers you sent are pending). 

If you received an offer/s that are active, you'll see something to the effect of "You have X New Offer(s) | Review Offer(s)" and I think it's green...? I can't confirm right now since I don't have that scenario.

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I completely understand you not having "Manage Offers" on a BIN w/o BO, I'm seeing that on my current listings w/o BO.... but now I'm trying to think of how you access completed offers you sent out to "interested buyers" (let's all be politically correct, because they aren't all "watchers"...LMAO) ...If not through "Manage Offers"? I've not experienced this much but trying to wrap my head around where you go to see active and expired offers you sent on such listings...?

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Yes I agree correlation is not causation -- and yes this has to be because I have BO on. The whole scenario is about a BUYER sending ME an "unsolicited" or organic offer. (Meaning via BO). It reports in the notification and email that it is a counter offer when it is a purely organic "New" Offer... and I only see this "error" occur when I have active offers sent to other unique interested buyers.

I have seen the instances when a buyer counters my "unsolicited" offer, and have been able to see my original "unsolicited" offer to them with their counter in the "thread" of offers/negotiation with that buyer, and that's all normal and fine and dandy. So I know if I sent this buyer an offer, it would show with his "counter".

But it isn't a counter, it's a new organic offer through BO. Just says in the email and app notification as "counter". When I receive regular offers like this and there AREN'T any "unsolicited" offers I sent pending, then it says "New Offer Received" which is correct. However, the error isn't due to having BO on, but yes BO must be on for it to occur or I couldn't get an organic offer from a buyer, the error is due (I think) to having other active offers I sent (which makes no sense but that's my only correlation) when the new organic BO is received.

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YES this screen gives me detailed info on date/time stamp (sent & completed), offer messages, time remaining before offer expires etc on every offer and nicely places all offers back and forth in a negotiation (in order) under the thread I'm talking about. The threads can be accessed from a list of offers (categorically organize by active, declined/expired, etc) on the left hand side and thus are expanded when you click and choose any given one.

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YOU DON'T NEED TIME STAMP FOR WHEN YOUR OFFER WAS SENT. OFFERS FROM SELLERS EXPIRE AFTER 48HRS IF NOT ACTED UPON. (i.e. offer was sent 48hrs prior to expiration. Tells you time sent). Offers from buyers expire after 24 hours if not acted upon btw. 

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

@simply-the-best-for-you 

This is my best example of "Manage Offers" Screen.

Left hand side has what I'll call "negotiation records" for each buyer. There are "unsolicited" offers I sent to buyers and one buyer sent me 5 offers that all got auto-declined (no back and forth). That buyer's username shows so i blacket it out, unsolicited offers have encrypted usernames to protect buyers from further unsolicited contact.

Anytime you click one of those offers it expands in the center where you see this "thread" of declined offers from this specific buyer (auto-decline) Any offers associated with that buyer appear there in chronological order. (Including back and forth offers between buyer and seller).

I was wrong about initial time stamp of every offer. Offers I send unsolicited don't show initial time stamp, but offers I receive and counter with do. Unsolicited offers show timestamp of when offer expired or was declined as you said. Of course seller offers last 48hr so offers expired were sent 48 hrs prior to expiration so you can trace it back.

Any offers RECEIVED also show up in "History" which is on the main listing somewhere near price depending on your listing set up I think? For me it shows under "Condition" and above the listed price.. I click that and it shows up with offer history in similar format to the purchase/sold history of a multi-quantity listing with previous sales.

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

@simply-the-best-for-you 

OH MY GOD 🤣🤣🤣

I went and found one of my few listings without BO enabled (I raised the price before I sent an offer so I wouldn't actually have to send an offer for a discount -- im soooo bad, it was justified in the name of science and experimentation!). 

The "Review Offers Sent" in the Seller Hub under "Send Offers-Sent" is the EXACT same thing as "Manage Offers"...except you don't get any organic offers and they have you access it differently. 🙄🙄🙄 OMG. I have NEVER used that because i basically never have BO enabled (only started recently) and i rarely if ever send offers on BIN w/o BO listings. I only send offers on BO listings. My solution is drop price on BIN w/o BO instead of sending offers.

Holy (things that will get bleeped). Blah... that was a long post to realize you know what it is its just called something different... ugh 😅😅😅

[reallynicestamps]

Do you have a computer or laptop to cross check your phone notifications?

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

@reallynicestamps 

Thanks for the input, yes I do. I know my OP was long, but that was discussed at the end of it, and that was a big point because that is the only way I am able to go in to my offer history and verify what the truth is and notice there is an issue at all..

If not for having the laptop, and taking the time to go on and check the offer history in detail when in question, I would not have the accurate information I seek and lack from my phone notifications. 

If I get a "counter offer" according to my notifications, and I don't already firmly know that the buyer received X offer from me, then I go on my computer to either see what my original offer to them was or to verify if there even was an original offer and if it's just this glitch again.

It's feasible but absolutely ridiculous. I'm already irritated by how handicapped the app is in terms of missing features the full browser site has, it's even worse when the app supplies false info...

[simply-the-best-for-you]

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@ajs_coins_and_alchemy wrote:

@simply-the-best-for-you 

OH MY GOD 🤣🤣🤣

I went and found one of my few listings without BO enabled (I raised the price before I sent an offer so I wouldn't actually have to send an offer for a discount -- im soooo bad, it was justified in the name of science and experimentation!). 

The "Review Offers Sent" in the Seller Hub under "Send Offers-Sent" is the EXACT same thing as "Manage Offers"...except you don't get any organic offers and they have you access it differently. 🙄🙄🙄 OMG. I have NEVER used that because i basically never have BO enabled (only started recently) and i rarely if ever send offers on BIN w/o BO listings. I only send offers on BO listings. My solution is drop price on BIN w/o BO instead of sending offers.

Holy (things that will get bleeped). Blah... that was a long post to realize you know what it is its just called something different... ugh 😅😅😅

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@ajs_coins_and_alchemy  Believe it or not, all your posts made perfect sense!  Well, except the parts where eBay doesn't make perfect sense.  You & I would be great together in person.  We'd bore the hell outta anyone near us LOL, but we're clearly on the same level.  My DH is the same & I am so lucky to have someone who can match me in intellect & diagnostic capability (and vice versa).  Of course, he's luckier 😉  

Yes, I use the the 2 buttons you just found.  But beware - the Send Offers - Sent (can I just say how POORLY named that is), is NOT always accurate as to what's in there.   I *think* it's intended to be Currently Active sent offers.  However, I frequently have months-old items in there.  Not usually many, just 1 or 2.  The rest all seem to fit the criteria I think they intended.  

Usually though, I just use the Review Offers on the dropdown for each item.   Typically if I'm looking something up, it's specific to the item.  I want to know what price I offered before & what note I used so I can copy it (my note's are specific to the item), so I find the Review Offers dropdown to be more useful. 

Thanks for the screen shot & the explanations of the top banner, that helps a lot.  

Total non-sequitur, but since GMTA, you'll like this.  I found a bug in the programming of the radio control buttons in GM vehicles with 6 CD changers LOL.  The actual button's function is not what the Owner's Manual says it should be & I KNOW what they meant to do, but they didn't succeed LOL.   They generally use the same systems for YEARS & for many models including sister-brand models & I found this in 2007, right after I got my vehicle, so I suspect it affects TENS of MILLIONS of vehicles & yet I have no idea who to contact to tell them they programmed it wrong!  Or at least should change the Owner's Manual to indicate what it *really* does, rather than what they meant for it to do & failed.   

Don't even get me started on how poorly designed 99% of podcast apps are.  Yeah, I can't use anything without my mind immediately diagnosing the entire system & re-engineering it in my head, b/c the original design is so bad.  Good thing I found the career I did 🤣

[ajs_coins_and_alchemy]

@simply-the-best-for-you 

🤣🤣❤️❤️I love it! I feel so bad for anyone else reading our posts back and forth, they are probably like **bleep** are these 2 doing? Maybe they'll learn something though!? I studied as much as I could about EBay before I began selling and then studied as much as I could when I did start selling so EBay worked for me and I didn't work for it. That's why too many people complain, they don't know how to do something or why it happens, I just complain because EBay's software is being stupid LOL.

I noticed a new unique problem for me in offers, and I've never faced it before, where now I couldn't access any offers on this one listing other than the active/pending one even though there were back and forth offers with this buyer, and I have never ever ever experienced that before. I used to read through my offer threads and read the messages and just in general use them during my negotiations and watch what the increments were in offers and what someone had said and get a feel for if they're willing to go up more etc... Just noticed it and it seemed to only be on one listing but I haven't found a scenario on any other listing where it occurs or would occur, don't think I've had any back and forth negotiations like I used to a month or more ago, dynamic has changed for me.

... But I'm so done with figuring out the offer system for now 🤣 I'm just going to let it go and worry about it another day. I'm starting to convert over to a lot more BIN w/o BOs... I always did BO cuz my stuff wasn't selling as quickly as I wanted it so I took less ... now I do a BIN w/o BO, if it doesn't sell, I raise the price a couple bucks and it sells. ... WTH!?!? LOL Ok, if I want to sell it faster, why not take the option that gets me more money and not less.

Also wayyyyyy too much stuff to list the next couple days to worry about figuring out EBay software ... 🙄🙄

OMG I could only imagine what GM would say if you got ahold of them... JESUS LOL. The wrong thing in the GM manual would just annoy the living "SHEET" out of me, my biggest pet peeve is errors and typos in published things like books, manuals, signs, OR EBAY LISTINGS...😡😡 I refrain from contacting people to change those types of things LMAO (most of the time). Sometimes I can't resist pointing out the errors in people's listings, or I make sellers fix errors before I buy something from them so there is no confusion on the details or description. They just love me, LOL. 

Oh, I can't wait until we find the next thing to diagnose and babble on about and annoy everyone else with on this forum. 😄