05-13-2022 09:16 AM
Has anyone heard from eBay about our complaints about the new listing tool?
I absolutely dread doing listings now. It is so glitchy and it takes too many clicks to do anything.
Item specifics are a nightmare. I'd rather get a root canal than add a brand name from a search menu.
CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK CLICK
You can't even press enter to accept the brand name you typed in. Please ebay, just leave a text box open for brand and MPN. These are required for every listing, so every listing I do has to have an absurd amount of more clicks just to add brand and part number.
My entire internet slows down when I crop or change the brightness of the pictures. Change the category and sometimes the page randomly refreshes, losing all my work.
I am a professional lister. This is my day job and my profession. Listing items on eBay is how I pay the bills, and I am frankly insulted and dumbfounded by these changes. Not only does it dumb down the listing process, it is so time consuming to do the most basic things that I am avoiding them completely.
I am no longer editing my photos because it takes too long and slows my internet to a halt. I am no longer adding any item specifics other than the required ones because the process is just so clunky and complicated.
I have 10,000 items in my warehouse ready to be listed, and I am dreading it due to this slow, ugly, click click click show of a new listing tool. All I want to know is if eBay is hearing our cries.
05-13-2022 11:41 AM
Yes, thank you for also for confirming this, Jasmen. If it would be possible to still allow the classic view, that would be helpful to some especially those who still are using a desktop, large screen computer. I have switched over to the new view for a while and am now back to classic. The type of items I list have need of high quality images and the classic view is better and more convenient for someone like me to use in this endeavor in preparing them.
05-13-2022 11:49 AM
The listing tool doesn't bother me that much (I do simple listings) save the weird first class glitch (which might be template mediated) but the 'wheels within wheels' aspect of sub-menus and sub-sub menus for common listing changes (i.e., @a_c_green example of toggling IPR) is just poor design. Changing preferences should be global and an opt-out for that preference a simple, easily accessed option - that would go for web or mobile.
Also, templates are a bit obviated with user-created item specifics are simply dumped out and one has to type them in over and over.
Thanks for checking in jasmen@ebay !!
05-13-2022 11:59 AM
Yes, they hear you/us. Can you hear the yawning? I can...
05-13-2022 12:01 PM
@a_c_green wrote:
jasmen@ebay wrote:Our teams are hearing you loud and clear @partempire we appreciate the honest feedback!
jasmen@ebay : Good to hear, though unfortunately we have seen zero evidence of any changes or corrections being implemented, or even whether any are on the way.
Specifically, these teams need to acknowledge that they recognize or understand the specific problems that have been reported. Itemize them. Have a punchlist of reported problems and where they are in the resolution process for each. Meet regularly (once a week or more) to go over the list, and determine which fixes will be in the next release. Communicate your progress back to your users.
You have a good thing going in problem tracking with Khoros for the Community boards here; now someone needs to get the same process up and running for the main eBay site. I have to say that the only indications I can glean suggest that there is a heavy reliance on offshore programming, with the usual timezone issues of management trying to make decisions in the U.S. while their actual programmers are all asleep in Europe, and a shortage of direction or management to focus on key issues, as well as QA and testing of new releases.
For example, it should not take this long to fix the error of announcing that "Your listing is now Live" for an item with a Scheduled Start Time that is not, um, Live. An item uploaded with a start time in the future should be acknowledged as "now Scheduled," so that the seller doesn't wonder what happened to the start time that he just plugged in.
That's just a minor issue. A more significant error is to make unactivated options (e.g. Item Quantity, Scheduled Start Time, Sell as Lot, Immediate Payment Required) completely invisible up on the main form, leaving the seller to wonder where they are. Guessing which submenu contains which desired option is problematic, too, as some seem located elsewhere for no apparent reason.
For example, when setting a BuyItNow price, it's a good idea to set the Immediate Payment Required option so that no one can snatch your item off the market without actually paying you for it, but the IPR isn't there. It's actually down in the "PREFERENCES" section, as an invisible item under the "Payment" submenu, which you can find by clicking on "Edit all options," then "Payments managed by eBay," which finally reveals a checkbox for "Require immediate payment when buyer uses Buy It Now."
Now, really, how could anyone with any knowledge of the eBay selling process possibly think that that was a good, logical or intuitive design? Why not put the checkbox option with the BuyItNow option that it serves?
This is the sort of disorganization that normally gets resolved in the very first design review. To have this make it all the way into Production begs the question of who is responsible. Is there no one at eBay willing to stand up and defend their work? Who, for example, was the Project Manager for the Listing form redesign? What is their name? Why are they not communicating on the status of their troubleshooting?
"Here's why we are redesigning the Listing form, here are the changes we have made, here are where you find the options from the old form, and here is why we think this is a good thing."
The silence from the Engineering side has been deafening. When your user base is in the millions, you owe them a lot more professional representation than what has been seen to date.
Have you ever wondered when eBay is reviewing issues for some sort of technical glitch if they have to go through a myriad of check boxes to determine what the problem is and how to fix it? Maybe it's considered "fair play" in scheme of things when they do that to us.
Sorry!!! Major apologies!!! Bad mee!! Had to ask though?
-Lotz
05-13-2022 12:12 PM - edited 05-13-2022 12:13 PM
@chapeau-noir wrote:The listing tool doesn't bother me that much (I do simple listings) save the weird first class glitch (which might be template mediated)
I think it is. It won't offer the domestic First Class Package option if the declared package weight is greater than one pound, zero ounces. Things get a bit sticky when you're doing a Sell Similar of a listing that offered it, but then set the new listing to be heavier; I think it shows the option (as it's been brought in from last time) but won't let you select it, or something like that. I was messing about with it last week but didn't really get into it in detail.
@chapeau-noir wrote:the 'wheels within wheels' aspect of sub-menus and sub-sub menus for common listing changes (i.e., @a_c_green example of toggling IPR) is just poor design. Changing preferences should be global and an opt-out for that preference a simple, easily accessed option - that would go for web or mobile.
In the old form, you couldn't even leave the IPR box checked if your new listing was not going to have a BuyItNow price (such as when reusing or Sell Similar-ing a prior listing that had a BIN/IPR price set). It would get all offended and make you remove the IPR checkoff before it would accept the listing, requiring you to remember to check the box again the next time you needed it in conjunction with a BuyItNow. Why it couldn't simply allow the IPR to remain checked in case the BIN was needed in the future, I have no idea. They could at least add a reminder message or a Best Practices "Tip" to the seller right there on the form where the BIN price is added. I have not tested to see if the new form has that same limitation.
@chapeau-noir wrote:Thanks for checking in jasmen@ebay !!
I think I should add here that I did not mean to sound like I was yelling at jasmen@ebay in my previous post. That was aimed at the Development/Engineering folks on the other side of the impenetrable wall.
05-13-2022 12:26 PM
I would like to point out that hearing and listening are not the same action.
05-13-2022 12:57 PM
...forever...K.I.S.S..."Keep It Simple Stupid"...the golden rule I preferred...
05-13-2022 01:51 PM
I sell dishes and glassware and usually in a lot of 4, 6, or 8 pieces. The old form had a checkbox for selling a "lot" and a box for how many in the lot. Now you have to drill down in an obscure menu, and I can never remember where it is. I suppose I'll learn it, but nothing is intuitive. And I really miss having all the information in a row. Has ebay ever reversed a major change?
05-13-2022 02:16 PM
@a_c_green wrote:
This is the sort of disorganization that normally gets resolved in the very first design review. To have this make it all the way into Production begs the question of who is responsible.
jasmen@ebay It's good to hear that we are being heard, but ^^^ This. A million times this. This keeps happening at Ebay OVER & OVER & OVER, with the outcomes being foisted upon your users who have never asked for the changes, have no input to the changes & are dealing constantly with MAJOR changes being put into production with no testing whatsoever.
Does Beta test not exist in Ebayland? Giving this "tool" to 100 users for beta, would have quickly & clearly shown it to be unusable.
The biggest difference between Ebay & most companies implementing changes is that a typical development life cycle STARTS WITH THE USER. The user is the one who requests the changes. Changes are not initiated by the development teams just because or because someone thinks screens should be "updated". In fact, one of the first rules of IT is to change the UI (user interface) as LITTLE as humanly possible! Why can't Ebay get this through their heads? Millions of dollars are being wasted & millions of users are affected negatively.
Ebay, your users, your customers did not want this & did not ask for this. What you had worked quite well. WE, your users could have told you that having 1 tool for all platforms is a bad idea. Different platforms are different for a reason. They have different O/S's for a reason. They are intended to be different & those differences should be respected. Also, real polling of your user base would have made it clear to you that most of your users continue to use a desktop or laptop to list & that many of them (not me) do not have the fast internet required to make some of your ideas function.
A modicum of testing (which never seems to happen) would have made it very clear that this is unworkable on many different levels. I recently had problems with a screen that changed (not a part of the new listing too, just one of your daily 'changes for no reason'), your developers contacted me, there was 'zoom type' call, they saw the effect of their change & how it messed up my display. When I asked them why the completely unnecessary change had even happened in the first place, the response was 'to update/modernize the screen'. Developers just do what they've been told to do. IT is not understood at Ebay. You don't make UI changes to modernize/update screens. EVER. You only make UI changes that are required due to legal changes or b/c your users requested it or you are implementing a new user requested feature. Please somebody listen & QUIT CHANGING interfaces! That is NOT how real IT works. In the non-Ebay world, programmers bend over backwards to NOT AFFECT the User Interface. You want to create as little disruption as possible for your users.
Instead we have constant untested changes going into production, it seems daily, constant daily if not hourly glitches that are rarely if ever, acknowledged, even though they are widely known & huge multimillion dollar projects being created for things no one in your user base ever wanted or needed, like the new unified listing form, like Seller Hub, like the 'new' 3 or 4 times over, shipping label screen that got progressively more complex each time. THIS IS NOT how real companies do IT. Please put a moratorium on changes unless they are user requested & THOROUGHLY tested prior to production (by developers, dedicated business unit testers & users (sellers) ). Just STOP & hire someone who actually understands IT, to steer this IT nightmare correctly.
Also, offshore programming generally garners you results that make no sense in the US market. Many Fortune 100 companies have already learned this lesson. Isn't it time for Ebay to learn it?
05-13-2022 02:21 PM
@winterpalace25 wrote:I sell dishes and glassware and usually in a lot of 4, 6, or 8 pieces. The old form had a checkbox for selling a "lot" and a box for how many in the lot. Now you have to drill down in an obscure menu, and I can never remember where it is. I suppose I'll learn it, but nothing is intuitive. And I really miss having all the information in a row. Has ebay ever reversed a major change?
I have posted that question several times on both boards...CA/COM. Got crickets for a response. Multiple places in the past where I've worked the programmers were able to do a go back. To my mind/ non-alcohol included observations that doesn't seem possible within eBay. At least I've never seen it happen.
Similar to any billing issues being quickly proactively reversed.
-Lotz
05-13-2022 02:24 PM
Ebay needs to hire some established sellers BEFORE they change the listing page.
05-13-2022 02:32 PM
Hopefully eBay has enough guinea pigs in the new clunky tool to be able to work out the kinks over the next couple of years before forcing more users into it.
05-13-2022 02:43 PM
Hear, hear, amber_resin-fossils!
I ONLY use my laptop for ALL eBay purposes, since I don't own a "smart" phone (nor do I want one!).
If the new listing tool necessitates using a "smart" phone, that's the end, for me.
(And, just as a side note: When I started selling on eBay twelve years ago this month, I was listing 15 items a day. Then eBay began "improving" the "listing experience," and I dropped down to 10 items a day. With the latest round of "item specifics" changes during the last couple of years, I'm now down to listing only 5 items a day. C'mon, eBay, knock it off -- all these cumbersome changes don't make our lives any easier -- they just add more complications to the listing process. Selling on eBay shouldn't be rocket science; but all this additional tomfoolery is certainly making it seem more difficult than it should be. If I am only listing 5 items now, in the same time frame in which I used to list 15 items, there's definitely something wrong with this picture -- and my money is on all the additional "updates" forced upon sellers within the last twelve years. Cool it, man.)
05-13-2022 02:45 PM
"All I want to know is if eBay is hearing our cries"
If a tree falls in the woods and there is no one around to hear it, does it make a noise?
05-13-2022 04:10 PM - edited 05-13-2022 04:11 PM
@a_c_green In the old form, you couldn't even leave the IPR box checked if your new listing was not going to have a BuyItNow price (such as when reusing or Sell Similar-ing a prior listing that had a BIN/IPR price set). It would get all offended and make you remove the IPR checkoff before it would accept the listing, requiring you to remember to check the box again the next time you needed it in conjunction with a BuyItNow. Why it couldn't simply allow the IPR to remain checked in case the BIN was needed in the future, I have no idea. They could at least add a reminder message or a Best Practices "Tip" to the seller right there on the form where the BIN price is added. I have not tested to see if the new form has that same limitation.
I actually can understand that - there's no provision in auctions for IPR and BIN is an auction function. Setting aside the beta immediate payment program, only FP can use IPR. Adding IPR *in case* a BIN is chosen just adds a layer of complexity by requiring that auction payments be re-tooled. I'm thinking that this may be coming along on the buyer side instead. We'd be check and unchecking it, anyway, at this point. We'll have to see what happens with the beta payment program to see if that fiddly intermediate step is taken out.
ETA: If it hasn't been taken out already, though that seems out of the remit of a simple form re-design.