Simply-the-best-for-you Volunteer Community Mentor
I am tagging you as you were the one that originally worked with the shipping team.
Please pass this up to the powers that be. There are significant legal and financial risks to eBay and Sellers with how the new International Shipping has been implemented. This is a bit long but please bear with me.
Part of me hopes I am barking up the wrong tree but based on what I have seen with my own listings and responses from others, I fear I am not.
The below email was received about the new International shipping program on Nov 15
This infers that listings that I have in GSP will roll over to the new program. No mention of Business Policies. I took this as if I have GSP activated on my listing these items will be migrated over. There is no mention about listings that do not have GSP or listings not having a Business Shipping Policy.
The below email was received on Nov 22
The second email does not even speak about GSP and now it states eligible listings.
Nowhere in either of these emails does eBay mention anything about listings without Business Policies.
The second email also had this.
This leads you to the below page.
Again, this speaks to GSP and International Standard listings. Nothing about listings that do not have Business Policies or currently do not allow international shipping.
The below is what is written on the new eBay help page.
This does not even say what listings are eligible nor does it speak about Business Policies for shipping. Who decides what is eligible? It is also not clear on what an eligible listing is or what will happen to current listings that are listed as US shipping only.
Below is the excerpt on prohibited items from the same page.
There are a lot more items than just fragrances that cannot be shipped internationally due to hazards and flammability.
Some countries do not allow jewelry to be imported and others have restrictions on certain types of jewelry and that is before you even get to a monetary cap amount.
Other countries do not permit knives at all.
Then we have items that cannot be shipped out of the country due to security laws.
More on the risks with those later.
Below was a response from you to questions on items being included and sold internationally where they should not be.
This is a HUGE issue.
Instead of taking the logical route and only including listings with GSP or International policies, someone somewhere made the decision to do the opposite and blanket migrate everything, including listings that do not currently allow international shipping if no business policy is on the listing.
You have a large number of sellers that do not use business policies for various reasons. Business policies are not required at this time.
Sellers that do not use GSP, do not have excluded countries set up. People that do not use Business Policies also do not have excluded countries set up. There are Sellers that have never sold internationally and have no idea that you can exclude countries. So now you have listings that potentially can be sold to countries that have issues with certain items by sellers that have NO IDEA this is going to happen.
You have sellers that absolutely cannot by law, ship some of their items out of the country. None of that is in the list above and some of these items cross many different categories.
You also have Sellers that have no idea that the items they sell cannot ship internationally because they have never allowed international shipping.
Then you have the issues that have already been brought up such as the used Levi’s, toner and then there is jewelry that cannot be shipped to certain countries and a host of other nuanced issues that depend on the item being sold and where it is going.
eBay has arbitrarily taken Seller listings that they have set up in a specific way, such as only allowing US shipping options with no international shipping or sales and has now made those listings available to the world because someone made the decision to move these listings without regard to the legal ramifications behind it. Those legal ramifications are not only for the seller, but also eBay.
Why is eBay at risk? As I have shown above, there is nothing in writing, short of your response that talks of listings without business policies. eBay has made this change, not the seller. eBay has not communicated what that change entails.
There are also reports of listings that do have policies set up for no international that are rolling over as well.
eBay is also taking responsibility per your TOS for the new program.
But then there is this.
How can Sellers agree to not sell ineligible items when they do not even know their items are being offered with international shipping until a sale happens?
The emails about the new program are not clear and for many that currently do not offer international shipping, think this does not apply to them because they do not use GSP or other international shipping. They are not told in the email they are being mandatory opted in in the first place.
Then there is the “here” link takes you to the list I screen shot above with respect to prohibited items that is ambiguous and subject to change at any time.
Then we have the TOS in general.
You are opting Sellers into a program with an implied TOS agreement that the Seller is not required to acknowledge or agree to, that they cannot even find unless they go looking for it, for a program they have been opted into without their consent or knowledge? The link to the TOS that we are arbitrarily agreeing to is not in any of the emails and you must go hunt for it.
And now for the serious part
Skipping the whole Levi’s thing, there are some items that deal with militaria and technology that absolutely cannot leave the country, and not by just local laws or laws pertaining to agriculture or CITES. These items are varied and in many categories. None of which are listed in the prohibited list above.
Attempting to ship certain militaria and technology violates serious Federal laws and can result in Federal charges and/or convictions. Sellers of these items know they cannot ship these internationally, they have their shipping set to the US only. These sellers have brought up issues with eBay before with people using freight forwarders to bypass the rules. eBay has not been able to prevent these sales, even where the seller had the correct shipping rules in place and now eBay has just thrown all those listings out there as well regardless of what shipping the seller has on the item. If these sellers are not using business policies, you have just exposed them (and eBay) to some serious risks. Risks that include federal jail time and hefty fines.
The argument last time this was brought up was that the FF was the exporter and therefore they were responsible. eBay is now the exporter.
What needs to happen and happen soon.
The default should not be Opt Out, it should be Opt in. If that is not an option, at a bare minimum the following should happen with future migrations.
Clearly communicate the default is opt in with a link to opt out or instructions on how to do so on the welcome email. It must be made clear to a Seller that does not currently sell internationally that their listings will be migrated, even if they currently do not allow international sales or GSP. A seller should not have to go hunt and peck and post on a forum when they have been arbitrarily enrolled in a program to find out how to opt out.
Cleary communicate to the sellers what listings will migrate in the welcome email. This needs to include verbiage and direction on listings that do not have Business Shipping Policies set up. A link to information on the process for excluding countries also needs to be provided and not be buried behind 4 clicks to find the information.
eBay needs to abide by the sellers current shipping on the listing when the shipping is set to US only and not migrate these listings, or make Business Policies mandatory so that the seller can correctly identify those listings that cannot be shipped internationally.
eBay needs to update the eBay International Shipping page to clearly outline all of the above.
eBay needs to provide clear guidance on prohibited items and when the list is updated, this needs to be communicated.
Lastly, what Seller protections for the Seller account are going to be in play because of the lack of communication around what listings will migrate and when? If a VERO is filed or there are issues because a seller is cancelling transactions with problem with addresses initially because they were not notified that certain listings were being migrated, is eBay going to protect the seller and remove account dings due to eBays migration of ineligible listings to a mandatory program?
I am going to end this with I sell internationally and am not against the program, I am however, really, really concerned at the risks involved for sellers on how this is being implemented.
@semisurplus wrote:Honestly we don't keep track of how long something takes to arrive, that would be too time consuming for us. We ship very fast though which helps. We figure everything is all good unless we hear that something went wrong, which isn't too often. Ebay is a secondary sales channel, we use it as our small order desk and a way to unload old inventory. Honestly we like helping out the people who are doing repairs, hobbyists, prototyping etc. Sometimes we actually sell something to a big company but for the most part we chalk our store up to mostly helping other people by allowing them to buy a small quantity at a cheap price. At one point we were doing about 300-400 orders a month. Rising shipping costs have put a damper on that, and we've been losing money on the shipping on most low dollar orders over the past few months. Yet we still have people complain about our shipping prices. Shipping cost is the only 5 star review where we actually have a 4.9 instead of a perfect 5.0 rating. For some reason the public seems unaware of what things cost to ship. We are now slowly moving to "calculated" on all shipments, even on 1st class, as we're tired of trying to keep up with cost changes, as you know USPS has changed prices 3 times now since July and I'm tired of having to change our costs every time. Ebay is too time consuming as is.
Thank you. I get that. Even though I don't have the volume you do, I don't normally keep watch either. I just have been b/c they were my first EIS shipments & in the case of Japan, the buyer wanted it to wear to a holiday party. Luckily I told her I could not say how long it would be, but that Japan was usually very quick. Well, it wasn't & it didn't make it in time. She was still happy, but that's why I'd been keep an eye on it.
I have used Calculated Shipping for about 8 years or so, on everything & I love it! I hated having to do updates every time rates changed & esp with the rate changes being twice a year now, it's the way to go!
As for the public not knowing about rates, I constantly see on SM GenZ'ers who have no idea how to mail a letter. Some thinking they just drop it in a box (no postage) & the USPS will text them how much to Venmo. I wish I were kidding. I even heard a Boomer the other day, who mailed a pkg for the first time in years, he knew how, but he was shocked by the price. People don't mail much anymore.
@reallynicestamps wrote:
FWIW- There is a scam, I've heard it called the customs scam, where the buyer does not pick up the shipment, instead claiming Not Received.
Once he has his refund, he pays the customs, and gets his item before it is returned to the seller.
The GSP stopped this scam by having import fees paid up front.
elizabeth@ebay How does EIS prevent this scam?
Note that I am posting from Canada and don't really have any skin in the game.
Also, it is Standard Business Practice that the importer/buyer should know what can and cannot be imported into his own country.
Not the seller.
How does EIS deal with shipments returned as not allowed? Does the buyer have to wait until the seller has the shipment back? That can take months since returned shipments are not a high priority with any shipping company.
Hey @reallynicestamps. We review the tracking information, which would show it's awaiting pickup (or something along those lines) and we would close the case in the sellers favor. Of course cases are reviewed on each individual basis, but the seller is often protected in this scenario.
Elizabeth,
