New Chargeback Scam with Raw Sports Cards

[wall25]

I have been selling on eBay since 1999 and had the pleasure of dealing with my first chargeback. Unfortunately, it was for a $2000 sports card. 

-Buyer orders item on Jan 5th. Item is delivered.

-Buyer messages me requesting a return on Feb 19th, because after receiving, they send the raw card to PSA for grading, received a grade they didn't like, and then claimed the item was not as described. They even showed me photos on the slabbed, and in this case altered, card.

-After speaking with eBay, they told me I can choose not accept the return since the buyer is outside of the acceptable window and that the item was altered.

-buyer opens a chargeback dispute on Feb 20.

-eBay advises me of what data and evidence to provide so they can fight the case.

-the buyer's bank rules in his favor on April 23rd. I lose $2000 and do not get the card back.

-eBay tells me that I am not eligible for seller protection, even though I followed policy and did nothing wrong.

So, to summarize, the new scam is purchase raw card, submit for grading, get a bad grade, then get refunded and keep the card. eBay will provide you no protection. And before some of you say I should have accepted the return, it was outside of the eBay window. Even when I have accepted returns, and there was buyer damage to the item, eBay has NEVER sided with me when I opened a case that the return item was not in the same condition. 

I have totally lost any confidence in selling anything on this site. At some point, eBay needs to ask themselves what is reasonable. I understand a chargeback dispute is Federal law but eBay needs to provide seller protection. That's what our fees should cover. I spoke to several people in different departments about this and got nowhere. Zero people at eBay willing to help me. The best I got was they were willing to refund my $20 dispute fee on a $2000 financial loss to me. 

[isaiah53-57]

---

@wall25 wrote:

I have been selling on eBay since 1999 and had the pleasure of dealing with my first chargeback. Unfortunately, it was for a $2000 sports card. 

-buyer opens a chargeback dispute on Feb 20.

-eBay advises me of what data and evidence to provide so they can fight the case.

-the buyer's bank rules in his favor on April 23rd. I lose $2000 and do not get the card back.

-eBay tells me that I am not eligible for seller protection, even though I followed policy and did nothing wrong.

I have totally lost any confidence in selling anything on this site. At some point, eBay needs to ask themselves what is reasonable. I understand a chargeback dispute is Federal law but eBay needs to provide seller protection. That's what our fees should cover. I spoke to several people in different departments about this and got nowhere. Zero people at eBay willing to help me. The best I got was they were willing to refund my $20 dispute fee on a $2000 financial loss to me. 

---

@wall25

In my opinion, get used to it - Seems the word is out and spreading fast that this is the site for fraudsters to do their shopping - My guess is its going to get worse - Its the main reason we quit selling here - We consider this site to be untenable with the ease of fraud and lack of punitive measures -

They need buyers bad - getting rid of a buyer here, ANY buyer, regardless of quality must be like cutting off a pinky. By our experience, I'll further postulate that the buyer you dealt with in this instance will continue on their merry spree and you likely weren't the beginning of it...

[gamersbaystore]

I'm sorry to hear of your situation, but due to consumer protections laws, the bank has broad authority to decide in the buyers favor because you don't accept returns and stated yourself you refused to accept a return.

Had you accepted the return and the buyer filed a chargeback without returning your merchandise, the buyer would essentially be committing mail fraud.

Because your listings state "Seller does not accept returns" the banks will automatically decide in the buyers favor.

Had you offered returns in the original listing and the buyer sent back something other than what they originally bought, you would then have had grounds to file a mail fraud report against them as well. 

Its more than likely your buyer targeted you because they knew you would not accept a return.

[sextons-sweet-deals]

I couldn't find your sale of this item.

A $2,000 card should automatically go through eBay authentication process. 

what kind of transaction was this? 

[tobaccocardyahoo]

A substantial number of the sales of RAW cards are to other sellers who plan to have them graded and resell them.

Almost all are past the MBG when they are returned from the grader.

Your buyer paid to have it graded so I doubt this is a scam, but many people who sell slabbed cards have no clue how to grade so there could be issues when they are disappointed. If you grade everything as NM or better there could be surprised, unless you have a feel for how a 3P grader will treat the defects which keep the card from being Mint.

Allowing a dispute like this to get to a chargeback is usually a bad move, as you have seen. You need to find an accommodation with your buyer before that happens.

[wall25]

It didn't go to the authenticator, which I cannot control. eBay was unable to provide me with a reason why, further adding to the fraud. I did some digging and it could be because the buyer's address was a PO Box. 

[wall25]

I'm within my right to decline a return. It was outside of eBay's allotted window. Would you accept a return if it were, say 180 days later? There's a clear time frame and the buyer was outside of it. As stated, I've gone that path with buyers spitefully damaging items they return, only for eBay to not side with me in my claim after I got the item back. The point here is eBay advised me to not accept the return and should offer chargeback protection to sellers, as they state in their policy that they will.

[wall25]

I don't think it's the seller's concern with what a buyer wants to do with the item after that receive it. A raw NM or better is different that a graded NM or better. eBay's card guideline's show this. 

The window should be outside the MBG window. You wouldn't able to sell cards on here if buyers were allowed to grade raw cards and then initiate a return when they got a PSA 8 or lower.

There's also no guarantee this was even my card. The buyer could have had a damaged version or already low graded version of my card, then bought mine, which they eventually got for free.  The card wasn't numbered so there's no way to be sure the graded photos he showed were the card I sent him. Since I never received it back, there's no guarantee the photo of the graded card he sent was even in his possession. 

Maybe this is all unlikely, but people committing fraud will go to great lengths to make money and hopefully these points raise questions and show that eBay's current system is broken, especially when they won't provide me seller protection as their policy states they will. 

[wall25]

I can't find public record of it either, even on 130 point. It's like eBay scrubbed to hide the fraud. 

[12345jamesstamps]

If it was outside 120 days of a credit card dispute I would have disputed it with eBay and the bank.

That's how I won a chargeback....as you are allowed usually only 120 days for a chargeback.

Some buyers will go beyond the 120 day limit...this is where experience helps in talking to the buyer's bank.

eBay steps back in a bank dispute. You are dealing with basically the bank.

I did win a  dispute back in December because of that window frame. I did not get my item back but won the dispute.

Apparently this buyer knew what to do. I assume the buyer does not sell on eBay.

Checking on a buyer's address and feedback is important.

Getting a written signature..not a digital signature for confirmation also helps...cost the same.

I assume this is your first chargeback.

You have the experience now like I do...use it next time.

I wouldn't give up selling on eBay.

[sextons-sweet-deals]

So, you somehow made this transaction to avoid the eBay authentication process?

Did you and the buyer try to deal outside of eBay to avoid fees?

[robbie31415]

Since you shipped directly to the buyer there is no evidence you didn't send what they claim.

The rep told you the correct information in regards to eBays money back guarentee.

There is no seller protection for item not described chargebacks unless you send the item via eBays authenticity guarentee program and if you did then you would have been covered.

[dnasilver]

Your actual loss is what you paid for the card, other associated cost to storing card and shipping. 

[wall25]

No, I didn't try to avoid the authenticator. I sent it to the address that printed on the label. I asked eBay about this and you cannot choose to send it to the authenticator. It should be automatic. In this case, the shipping label wasn't to the authenticator, just as if it were a $10 dollar card. When I asked eBay why, they could not provide me answer, but as I stated, if a buyer uses a PO Box as their address, it may not go to the authenticator. 

[wall25]

A seller cannot chose to send to the authenticator.  It automatically applies to high value transactions, but in this case it did not. eBay could not provide me with an answer as to why the system didn't have me send to the authenticator.