Multiple buyers asking to change shipping address after purchase (scam?), help!

[darthus]

Hi all,

I'm trying to sell a $1,200 laptop. First time I did free shipping, buy it now. Buyer purchased with 0 feedback (though oddly member since 2016) and paid immediately, was responsive. Once the item was due to arrive, messaged me and said, "Oh hey, you forgot to add my apartment # to the addresss, Fedex won't deliver it, please call fedex and either add the apartment number, or say I can pick it up." I called Ebay to check and ebay said, "Do not change the address or you will lose seller protection, just let it come back, and it's up to you if you want to refund the person."

So, I wait a week, it comes back (I had to specially plan to be at home to sign for it), I refund the buyer and lose shipping costs, but Ebay says they will refund the fees.

I re-post the item (for 50 dollars less, buy it now), this time with the buyer paying shipping. Within one day, a different person buys it, immediate payment. I check.... sure enough, 0 feedback, member since 2016. I message them saying, "I just want to confirm, is this your address?" and of course they say, "Oh wow thanks for pointing that out, no that's not my correct address, here's my new address, please change it." Again, since they already paid, the shipping info is locked and if I ship somewhere else, I will lose seller protection. Buyer is similarly very responsive, trying to resolve the issue to get me to send it, even similar one line quick, friendly responses.

This time I just decide to cancel the transaction and refund immediately, citing "address issue". Ebay's auto refund fails, so I have to refund from Paypal. I call Paypal to see how to proceed, and they basically tell me that I owe the almost $40 Paypal fee. When I point out that I would have actually transfer money from my bank account to cover the fee to refund the person, Paypal finally relents and says they will credit me the fee, but that this would be a ONE time refund and they would put a note on my account. Looking back, I believe I was actually charged the paypal fee the first refund and didn't even realize it (I think Ebay just refunded the listing fees).

So now, I'm out at least $50, would have been out $100 without fighting, through no fault of my own, many hours of handling this, and weeks delay on selling the laptop. What should I do differently in the future? I have every restriction under the sun turned on for the auction, nobody less than 5 feedback who's had buying complaints, no international sales, no returns etc etc.

This could all just be a coincidence, but it almost feels like a scam (have me ship the laptop to a different address, then the buyer say they didn't receive it and get both the laptop and the refund). Even if it's not a scam and these are legit careless buyers, I see no way that this could not continue to happen to me every time and Ebay just slowly drains me of time and money. I was lucky this second person told me the address was wrong BEFORE I shipped the laptop. They could have said, "Yep that's right.", then once it was shipped say, "Oh wait I'm so sorry, that is an old address I just realized, I wasn't looking closely." and I'd be in the exact same situation.

Thanks for any thoughts!

[nkmipgolf]

"buyer say they didn't receive it and get both the laptop and the refund"

Happening way to often thanks to eBay policies to protect the buyer. 

[coffeebean832]

Your feedback is very low (22 for selling, 94 overall) for selling an  expensive item and you have no other items listed for sale. That will make you a target selling pricey electronics.

The first time it was returned you should have only given the buyer a partial refund less the cost of shipping and eBay/PayPal fees.

At this point you're likely to end up in the same scenario if you list it again so it's your call to move forward or not.

[fashunu4eeuh]

Glad you have good instincts. Never change the address for an expensive item. You will lose what little seller protection there is.

There are plenty of scams out there when it comes to selling computers, a high fraud category. First, I don't recommend a new seller list an expensive scam-magnet item. Second, if you must list it, use Fixed Price with Immediate Payment Required. Third, also be aware that a variation of the address change fraud is that a person not your buyer, will scour Sold listings looking for a new seller of a high dollar item, and then contact the seller posing as the buyer. So always check to see if the message originates from the actual buyer to prevent your cancelling a valid transaction. Fourth, new zero feedback buyers are not necessarily scammers. There is not enough information to judge. 

[thotup12]

It doesn't feel like a scam, it is one.  Good on you for not falling for it, but bad on eBay / paypal for being the predatory organization they are.  There's obviously no justice in crafting policies that say we are unprotected if we break the rules... and then punishing us for following them.

It's too bad there aren't any viable alternatives, because neither eBay nor Paypal deserve our business.

[darthus]

Thanks everyone for the feedback.

Seems like a common theme is that I'm a relatively small time seller, so shouldn't be selling an expensive laptop on Ebay. I hope that's not the case. I am not really a seller, I'm an average person who buys and sells on Ebay. I upgraded my laptop and am trying to sell it. I'd sell it locally, but I live in a pretty high crime city and if selling on Ebay makes me a target for scammers, selling locally makes me a target for muggers.

Thanks for the advice, just to note, these were definitely fixed price auctions with immediate payment required (no offers, but I still get all kinds of low ball direct message offers). Also, I definitely have received a number (I think 4 on the first auction) of messages post auction from random people pretending to be the buyer asking me to ship to a different address. Fooled me for a half second but thankfully I noticed and now just ignore them. Lastly, I totally understand these may just be new eBay users who don't know what they're doing, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm helpless in the current structure to being out a good amount of time and money.

The only thing I can think to do is to put in the listing of the auction itself, "NOTE: Please ensure your address is correct in your account before you purchase, or I will have to cancel the transaction." Though if these are scammers, that would just lead them to hide that the address was incorrect until it was in transit hoping I already have sunk time and money (which I would have).

This may not be legit in the Ebay forums, but if there are other services people have had good experiences with as alternates to safely sell something like this, I'm all ears.

Thanks again for all the replies so far!

[thotup12]

I understand right where you are, and I get it.  But it's not safe to sell it on eBay - it really is not.

You need to read the eBay policies.  First, by even having an incorrect address on eBay these buyers are violating policy, and you can report them based on that fact alone.  Here's the specific text of eBay's policy:

"Contact information: All eBay members must keep their account details up to date. We take action when we know that a member has false or missing contact information."

Also:

"You can't use eBay if your account contains false contact information. Buyers and sellers sometimes need to be able to get in touch with each other, and we need to be able to contact our members"

Also:

"You never have to agree to any changes to the terms in your listing (e.g., adding additional items or discounts). If a buyer demands a change to what you originally offered, you can choose to either cancel the order, or you can complete the transaction under the original terms. We will remove feedback and canceled transaction defects when we can see the buyer's demands in eBay messages."

The point is they are in violation of the policy the minute they acknowledge to you that they have an invalid address in the system and they don't update it.  They are in violation of the policy by asking you to change the address you ship to, because their use of the system is an implied agreement to follow the preceding points and is ALSO an attempt to get you to agree to terms other than those agreed upon... which include the implied agreement that you will ship to the address of RECORD. 

You don't need to place in your listing that you won't change the address - they are in violation for asking you to do so, and for failing to change it themselves.  Report them, and do us all a favor.