Materially Different Buyer opened electronics and now doesn't work

[holsteinatlanta]

I sold a CD and Tape player as used but working.  I tested the CD player and the tape player and both worked fine.  So as I was driving to FedEx I got the cord caught in the door and it got cut off.  I told the buyer the cord is no longer attached.  They said send me a $30 discount and I'll take it.  So I did.  Now they tried to self repair it and made it inoperable.  The sent photos of it open and taken apart.  They said there is water damage inside.  Now I do not know if there  was water damage inside or not because I never opened it.  I tested it but never took it apart.  Why would I.  Now buyer is claiming SNAD.  I think once the buyer takes it apart its game over for their claim.  I'm goiing to offer them a refund of the cost of the item and they would have to pay shipping plus the $30 I paid FedEx to wrap it.  I paid FedEx to fragile it so that it would be perfectly wrapped and insured.  I could file a FedEx claim but I think the buyer messed it up.  What do you think ebay would say

[mam98031]

You are correct.  More has to be considered.  But your two examples are no where close to what this buyer did.

Let's say you sold a Radio to someone.  The buyer gets it and decides they can give it more power by opening it up and tweaking some of the wiring or adding another component to the radio.  Then it doesn't work as well after they did all that work.  So they file a dispute that it is a SNAD and want the rest of their money back.  That should not be allowed as the buyer is the one that altered the item and caused it to no longer work as it did when it arrived.

[mam98031]

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@inhawaii wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

I would contact Ebay.  You have proof they altered the item.  Make sure you give that proof to Ebay, don't just tell them it exists, you show them.  Your emails between you and the buyer too.

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I find that advice odd coming from an experienced seller like yourself.

Since when does ebay look at or consider "proof" in a INAD (damaged item) claim?

It would be great if they did, but they don't.

Well I guess no loss in asking.

My opinion/advice is to just refund the buyer for this item that is for sure damaged and may or may not have water damage and be done with it.  Why pay to have such an item shipped back to you? 

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A good CSR is capable of working with a seller to resolve this matter.  THe OP could submit the evidence they have for consideration.  But the key is getting to one that will work with the seller.  Which is why I usually suggest using Ebay for Business on Facebook or Twitter instead of the Call center.

[tobaccocardyahoo]

In my opinion you gave the buyer the right to alter the item by shipping him a defective item (cut cord) and lowering the price. If you had any restrictions associated with this price cut, you should have stated them as part of your offer.

IMO shipping an item you damaged is asking for a problem, even if you acknowledge it and make a price reduction.

It is common to cut the cords on defective products and not surprising that a buyer does not trust your statement the product worked before the cord was cut.

II doubt if FEDEX would pay an insurance claim on your item even if the buyer had not screwed it up.

This is a bad situation, and you could have avoided it by repairing the item yourself and then selling it.

[dqdistribution]

SNAD was used on eBay because Paypal was connected to it for many years.

According to paypal the term "significantly" had specific meaning and limitations.

eBays MBG I don't believe references SNAD once, it's only INAD.

Does it change things ? Actually yes, I have won cases on paypal where the item difference wasn't significant.

GL, winning that on eBay.

I never implied the buyer didn't say the item had water damage. The issue is the seller can't say it didn't have it before or after the sale which makes it an issue.

The altering item policy should apply to buyer remorse. It would be ridiculous if it applied to INAD, especially when you send a defective product.

[dqdistribution]

Your example is basically the item isn't not as described and they altered it to make it more powerful.

This is abuse.

However, that isn't what happened here. The seller sold defective/damaged product, and all the buyer did was try and salvage it. All information that wasn't even listed in the original listing.

[mam98031]

It is OK, we just disagree.

[holsteinatlanta]

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@johnrj1226 wrote:

Seriously doubt that an electrical cord would get cut off by closing a vehicle door.   There are gaps all the way around the door and rubber molding around the door opening and no sharp edges

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I went to the car wash before I went to FedEx and the cord was probably hanging out. When I got out of the car wash, I said, what is this wire hanging down from my car and then realized what had happened

[tdrake]

If the cord was cut off and the buyer was expected to fix it himself then the only way to properly repair it would be to open it and remover the remains of the old cord and solder or otherwise connect the new cord. 

Actually, since you gave him a $30 discount  to deal with it himself, you paid him to fix it for you.

[holsteinatlanta]

going back it worked when I left the house and I have to look and see if I have video but I have photos of it lit up and working. The buyer is claiming water damage ruined  inside components The item never got wet when I opened it it may have gotten wet before I owned it, but it did work when I listed it. The power cord getting cut off ‘yes, it actually happened’  is where I probably should’ve canceled it and re-listed it as damaged needs repair. there was also another email that I left out of this conversation where I kind of knew I would be in trouble anyway before hand. The buyer asked me if I tested every single component of the player and if every single piece of the item worked. I replied, I tested the CD player and I tested the cassette player. I did not test every single component of the item.  I had a feeling right then in there after that email that the buyer was going to find something wrong and try to extract money. I wrote down the serial number, so if they return the insides with the wrong serial number, that could be a problem for them, I just brought an old VCR to a local electronics shop to have him inspect it before I list it. his starting fee for just bringing it in was $30 so when the person said I’ll take it damage cord for 30 I figured it was the same thing but if I had brought it to the shop, the guy could’ve tested it again.  I don’t want to do this, but can I file a claim with Federal Express claiming it was damaged because it did work when it left my house missing the power cord. if the buyer is claiming nonexistent damage wouldn’t be, FedEx have to be the judge and jury on a that situation. i’m at FedEx every day of the week except for Sunday and I became friends with the manager so I’m going to ask him what he thinks of the situation tomorrow. 

[holsteinatlanta]

also, the reason for Federal Express rather than a me, wrapping the item myself with my own bubble wrap and box is that when they wrap it And I pay for fragile packaging. If anything happens to it, they cannot deny the claim, but this is a whole different situation.

[holsteinatlanta]

they took the partial refund the only money I’m out is the item. they ended up paying $30 for FedEx to wrap it $20 for FedEx to ship it. so if this was actually a legitimate claim and the item actually didn’t work, they wouldn’t of excepted a partial refund where they are on the hook for $50 for a ‘broken’ item,

I got the item added estate sale along with a bunch of other stuff. I’m absolutely shocked it sold at all. i’m not out any money really I’m just out profit. I bet it worked

[mam98031]

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@tdrake wrote:

If the cord was cut off and the buyer was expected to fix it himself then the only way to properly repair it would be to open it and remover the remains of the old cord and solder or otherwise connect the new cord. 

Actually, since you gave him a $30 discount  to deal with it himself, you paid him to fix it for you.

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NO the buyer said they were willing to fix the issue, the OP didn't "expect" them to fix it.  The OP was honest with them, it was the buyer that decided they still wanted the item.

[glorybells]

A guess here as to what happened . . . 

you said that the cord was hanging out of the car while you went through the car wash.  Water in the car wash could have migrated up the cord into the inner components while going through the car wash, causing the inner water damage.  It sounds like the car wash was the source of all the problems, so I would have the buyer return for a refund, or just refund them since it sounds like all the problems originated with going through the car wash with the cord hanging out.

[holsteinatlanta]

she showed me pictures of the inside and it was rusted And the grill you could see looks crappy on the outside, but on the inside it looks rusted. it was old damage or water damage probably did. I didn’t notice because I tested the item and it worked fine. read my last comment and see what you think of that because the person accepted the partial refund and ended up paying $50 for it so if it didn’t work why would you pay $50 for it