mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
Buyer was trying to extort me. Left negative feedback admitting it.
I made a request to eBay to remove feedback. They removed the Buyer's extortion message but left the Negative (that was even worse). Buyer did not use profanity in their feedback or anything like that.
eBay's Decision:
"We reviewed your request and the buyer’s feedback content will be removed, but not their rating. The feedback content goes against our Seller performance and feedback policy and our Seller protections policy, however there was no violation found in the rating. Please know that this won’t affect your seller performance. We know how important your reputation is as a seller and appreciate your understanding as we work to keep our marketplace fair."
So, if a buyer extort a seller, they get to leave negative feedback when we don't do something they want, even if it violates eBay's policies? That doesn't seem right and I don't know if I can/should contact eBay to dispute this outcome.
I just had another buyer try to extort me, reporting an issue 45 days after receiving item, refused to send images, and wanted it shipped to different name and address (that was a drop ship warehouse).
Do we have any way to get Negative feedback removed (the rating, not content)? So far, my initial requests to remove are denied (doesn't seem like they look into it very hard). Can the decision be appealed? If so, how?
Update: FILED AN APPEAL Feb. 1st, 2024
Are they passive aggressive or just don't read the issue?
The negative rating is still there... it amazes me how CS seems so thrilled that the comment was removed (that made the buyer look crazy and removing the comment content didn't help us one bit).
Happened again... even worse this time.
eBay won't remove this.
Buyer never contacted me before it was shipped, or even received. They messaged later, in response to a Thank you message I sent. They said the wouldn't leave us Positive feedback because we don't accept returns... then I confirmed we do not & they left Negative feedback.
Here is the listing (we couldn't be more clear about what we were selling & our Return Policy): https://www.ebay.com/itm/256073751225
She said she ordered by mistake and didn't need it.
I even contacted "eBay for Business" and they said only way is for me to "work it out with the buyer" and get the buyer to remove negative feedback (i.e. give them whatever they want, even if I have to break policy).
Really? No. This Seller Protection policy and feedback removal doesn't seem to known/recognized by any eBay Support Agent or enforced.
I can completely understand why you are upset I can also understand where the buyer is coming from as well. It also seems your buyers don't know their rights with sellers that have a no return policy.
With a no return policy, if a buyer files a proper Buyer's Remorse return, the seller can choose to either process the claim or deny it.
The same is NOT true if the buyer files an INAD, the seller would have to process that claim just like any other seller with any other type of return policy.
There are many buyers that don't know this. Which you may have been able to avoid those 4 negs if you had of informed your buyers to file a Request for REturn due to their issues with the purchase.
Specifically the one you quote above [2 others posted after this one] IMHO there is no breach of any Ebay policy within what they said. You could have completely avoided this by instructing them to file for a Return Request. There reason for wanting to return it was a Buyer Remorse reason. It is likely this buyer would have selected the appropriate reason for the return request so it would have been a Buyer's Remorse reason. Then you could decide to deny the claim or process it. Either way, that would have protected your FB.
I don't see where they buyer "demanded a change to what you originally offer", or are you considering your return policy being the change they wanted? That is not something that would fall under this part of the policy. Same with the last statement you highlighted above.
You hold your return policy in too high of an esteem. Ebay requires ALL sellers to have a return policy that meets or exceeds the MBG. You are not an exception to that.
Your response to this FB likely did a bit more harm for you with potential buyers that come in and see the FB and comments.
As for the most current neg you got. This neg would likely of been avoided to by just telling the buyer to file for a Request for Return. FYI to file for a Request for REturn, buyers now have to submit at least one Pic.
While I would agree that if the buyer was having you ship to a different address than was on the original purchase, that would have been a problem for me too. But in general, shipping to a Freight Forwarding [not drop shipper as you said in your FB response] is typically not an issue.
If you had told them to file for a Request for Return, that would have resolved the issue without having the hard feelings and negative FB.
You really need to study the subject of what a No Return Policy actually means on Ebay as you are not applying it correctly and it is getting you into more and more trouble.
The return policies options are as follows.
- No Returns
- 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
- 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
- 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
- 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping. AKA Free Returns
- 14 Day returns in certain categories
With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request. Or if they want to they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping. If the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.
On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return. Plus if the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they options 2 or 3 as their return policy.
On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns. If a seller that has either of those policies they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return. A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping]. Also Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below. In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.
ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception. Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.
All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!
14 day return policies are allowed in certain categories: Jewelry & Watches, Collectibles & Art, Cameras & Photo and Medical, Mobility & Disability Equipment.
For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added protection benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.
This year, Ebay CS is consistently saying they will only remove feedback, like this IF
It's listed in Feedback Removal Policy AND
Buyer has to actually threaten seller to leave negative feedback in messages
It doesn't matter if Buyer does it as a result of not getting something ridiculous they were denied OR if their threat IS IN their feedback content (i.e. If buyer writes "I asked Seller to refund me and let me keep item because I'm broke. They refused, so I'm leaving this negative feedback for them"). That is being treated as fine feedback by eBay CS, and not Buyer Abuse.
Ebay IS NOT removing feedback, as it's stated in the Seller Protections Policy:
I submit Abuse claims, but haven't seen a single feedback be removed.
"Demands" should include written "requests" that result in negative feedback from a Buyer... just because seller didn't agree to give more than what listing "orginally offered" (like a remorse return on a No Return policy listing).
eBay CS is now only enforcing the
Seller performance and feedback policy.
Protections for Sellers is being ignored.
You aren't seeing them get removed because they aren't abusing the FB system. The clause you are hanging your hat on does NOT apply to the FB you want removed.
Your buyer was willing to return the item to you at their expense and you would not allow them to do that. It is highly likely that if you had told the buyer to file a Request for Return, it would have been a properly filed Buyer's Remorse claim. They would have paid the return shipping. You would get your product back so you could resell it, you would have gotten your FVFs refunded and likely you would not have gotten the negative FB.
The buyer did NOT "abuse" the FB system. They didn't "demand" anything, they just wanted to return the item.
"... just because seller didn't agree to give more than what listing "orginally offered" (like a remorse return on a No Return policy listing)." That was NOT something that falls under the policy you seem to think it does. They did NOT request something that was NOT offered in the original listing. That is reserved for your actual item being sold, not your TOS [terms of sale].
You just have some serious misunderstandings about what a No Return policy actually means. Hopefully my previous posts will help you get a better understanding.
I just read your post. Yes, I guess I must be misunderstanding what the No Return policy actually means, by your response. Maybe you can tell me what's wrong here...
My understanding of the eBay "No Returns" policy is there are no returns allowed unless there is a SNAD (which wasn't what the buyer claimed ever). There is different return policy option for "Returns up to 14/30 days, buyer pays shipping" but that is not the same as "No Return" policy.
Had Buyer filed a Return Request, it would've been denied (and eBay would've supported Seller on that because it was a No Returns listing).
Am I misunderstanding that?
As far as FB protections for return policy... eBay specifically cites an example that talks about a buyer demanding something not in the Return Policy:
https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/feedback-policies/feedback-extortion-policy?id=4230
I don't think I'm making mental gymnastics to say it's non-sense that eBay doesn't remove feedback from a buyer who is using FB for extortion (buyer would gladly revise their feedback if I gave in and went against the TOS "No Return Policy" and accepted their return) because we refused to give them something not promised in the sale.
Buyer didn't come out and clearly threaten to leave negative feedback. But, they said they thought it was unfair, even though they admitted understanding the Policy, and then left negative feedback, hoping we would concede. That is extortion, all the same.
RETURN POLICY is absolutely part of the deal. You correctly called it part of the Terms of Sale (TOS). A buyer asking for the Return Policy terms to be changed after the sale IS asking for something different than what was in original listing.
What part am I misunderstanding?
I explained all the different return policy you could have on Ebay in detail in this post.
There is nothing in any policy that says a buyer can not file for a return if the seller has a No Return Policy. Buyers can open a Return Request any time they have the need and no matter what the return policy is adopted by the seller.
As previously explained, IF the buyer files a proper Buyer Remorse return request on a seller that has a No Return policy, the seller can CHOOSE to process it or deny it.
You are reading the buyer's FB left on your account as "extortion" but it isn't. I respect it is your opinion and it is how it made you feel, but it isn't. What your buyer stated was their experience with you. They found you to be "rigid" and "unwilling to negotiate". That is their opinion and it apparently is how you made them feel.
I'm not judging you in any way, maybe how you responded to the buyer was totally professional, IDK. But it does appear that something in the way you approached this with them really upset them.
Did the buyer send you and email that said if you don't allow them to return the item they would post a negative FB on your account? That is what it would take to prove extortion.
The buyer said in the FB they left that they would pay for shipping charges. So that last highlighted statement doesn't apply either. Now they did word it badly in the FB, but it still says they would have paid return shipping.
You have every right to view this in any manner that works for you. This was a simple issue that was turned into a big issue. It wasn't necessary, but you wanted to stand on your Return policy and what you felt it meant. Which is your right. But in doing so you need to accept the consequences.
Similar to the other negs you have. There is a common complaint on how you deal with them. All of which is your right, but then you shouldn't be surprised when they reiterate that in the FB they leave.
"What part am I misunderstanding?" IMHO good customer service. I realize you won't agree with me about that, but you asked, I answered.
@sumsum70 wrote:You aren't misunderstanding anything. eBay expects sellers to follow a set of rules, but eBay and buyers don't.
"Our feedback system plays an important role...we're committed to making sure it isn't misused"
There is one of the biggest examples of hypocrisy on eBay. Some sellers get their negs removed on a regular basis whether they are deserved or not. This is a fact. I triple dog dare any eBay employee to reply to this post that it is not true.
In this particular case, that is not true. The buyer did not extort the seller. By the seller's own admission, the buyer did not threaten to leave negative FB if the seller didn't do what they wanted.
What we do not know is HOW the seller dealt with the buyer. How did they speak to them?
" Some sellers get their negs removed on a regular basis whether they are deserved or not." You are correct on this. Some of the larger sellers got this perk. A certain number removed each month or quarter, IDK which. However that perk was taken away a few months ago.
Ebay allows sellers to have "No Return" policy (as you have stated).
There are plenty of sales, both in and out of Ebay, that have "All Sales Final". Usually with rock-bottom prices, like we have. That's not bad customer service. That's the deal. We always allow returns if Not as Described though (that's the service we promise).
You're saying our customer service is bad for not going against eBay's stated Terms of Service (TOS)? Think about that.
