Interesting seller protection information/implications

[ittybitnot]

Key phrase: 

The protections associated with a Global Shipping Program shipment are for eMBG requests only.

Addressed yesterday in the weekly chat.  See message #35, and again confirmed in message #69. 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Weekly-Discussion-with-eBay/Community-Chat-September-22-1-00-pm-PT-Gen...

[dbfolks166mt]

     Agree 100%. The notation about it not being just eBay was not directed at you particularly but a lead-in to the web site reference. 

[gracieallen01]

@ittybitnot 

Yes, that does seem to be a long standing problem with many of the ebay policies - they do seem to be influenced by the fact that ebay has no money on the table, but appears to feel free to guarantee the funds of others.

[ittybitnot]

@dhbookds 

If you read the post from yesterday, it appears that if the buyer bypasses the ebay claim system and does a chargeback then the seller protection rules for chargebacks apply, not the protections for the GSP.  They provide a link to those policies that will be in place instead. 

Delivery to KY is not delivery to the buyer.  

Damaged in shipping is a Snad claim.  The buyer will be refunded, but not from the GSP since those policies do not apply to chargebacks. 

Maybe we will find out differently, or they will tell you to contact customer service to see what options are available to you (none?). 

[dhbookds]

@ittybitnot 

 I found it hard to understand...........so maybe Tyler can straighten me out.  The idea that GSP (Pitney Bowes) handles the item and it gets damaged in shipping from them,  but that would be charged to a seller is really WAY outside what protections I thought we had with GSP......... ditto on the not received claim..........

Just because these are chargebacks should not negate GSP protections.........that just makes no sense. 

[ittybitnot]

 but that would be charged to a seller is really WAY outside what protections I thought we had with GSP.

@dhbookds 

I understand totally what you are saying.  The "I thought we had" .... seems to be the issue.  If you think back, even PayPal would honor protections for a GSP sale when claims were made through them.  Now they are "Payment Disputes". 

[eleanor*rigby]

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@varebelrose wrote:

"If eBay did not divorce PayPal there would be seller protection. 

No, there wouldn't--not against a credit card chargeback."

I had several chargebacks over the years, and Paypal protected me every single time. I usually had to upload tracking or a screenshot of the transaction, but I never lost one.

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@varebelrose 

@flyingmvp 

Both of you posted that you had chargebacks for which PayPal afforded you protection. Do either or both of you remember whether those chargebacks were for INRs or SNADs or "unauthorized transactions," or something else?

[dhbookds]

Well, this is from the GSP info:

Benefits of the Global Shipping Program

More info

Besides making your items available worldwide, there are a number of benefits to using the Global Shipping Program:

• If an item is lost or broken during international shipping, eBay Money Back Guarantee cases will be resolved in your favour, and your seller performance standards won't be affected

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/setting-shipping-options/global-shipping-program?id...

Says nothing that I can see about other "payment disputes" such as charge backs.......not being covered, tho I guess "ebay money back guarantee" could be not inclusive of that........but if they aren't covered, it should certainly SAY that.....

[gracieallen01]

@ittybitnot 

Wasn't it the week before (or maybe 2 weeks) the Fall Update came out that part of the conversation on the 'weekly' emphasized that the new terminology for 'chargebacks' was now 'payment disputes'?  One might almost think that refunds are now going to get streamlined - all under one set of guidelines.

[flyingmvp]

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@eleanor*rigby wrote:

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@varebelrose wrote:

"If eBay did not divorce PayPal there would be seller protection. 

No, there wouldn't--not against a credit card chargeback."

I had several chargebacks over the years, and Paypal protected me every single time. I usually had to upload tracking or a screenshot of the transaction, but I never lost one.

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@varebelrose 

@flyingmvp 

Both of you posted that you had chargebacks for which PayPal afforded you protection. Do either or both of you remember whether those chargebacks were for INRs or SNADs or "unauthorized transactions," or something else?

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Sure, all chargebacks were due to "unauthorized transaction" 

[ittybitnot]

but if they aren't covered, it should certainly SAY that.....
@dhbookds 

Why should they?  They got the "eBay Money Back Guarantee" UNDERLINED in the statement you provided  (you don't need to underline anything to make it a link).  Perhaps nobody would use the GSP in favor of shipping directly so they could purchase insurance which would cover INR to the buyer's address, and damage in shipping on the way to the destination country in case of a chargeback situation.   The GSP doesn't say that for a Snad claim you have to front the money for a return from "somewhereistan" either.  They make it sound so wonderful ...ship it and your problems are over once it hits the KY hub and it is sent on.   Yes, they should qualify it to say UNLESS your buyer goes directly to their payment provider and bypasses the eBay claim system.  

As I said upthread, I became aware of this when others started reporting losing damage and INR claims when the GSP was used, and the buyers bypassed the eBay claim process.  I went to look at the protections for GSP myself, and noticed the underlined for "eBay MBG claims".  So I asked in the Weekly Chat.   

[ittybitnot]

 the new terminology for 'chargebacks' was now 'payment disputes'

@gracieallen01 

When they are 'delivered' to  the seller now they are called Payment Disputes.  That would be true if a buyer made a claim through PayPal, or directly with their credit card provider.  Both are Payment Disputes with the payment provider (PayPal or C.card)  not disclosed. 

[katzrul15]

Buyers have certainly figured out, especially international, how to make a chargeback work and stick.  All of our FF situations were chargebacks (did not recognize charge) - So international know how to do this easily, especially the 2 from the Russian Federation.

I truly "get" that there are so many Seller disadvantages to sell here.  What I find intolerable is that e-Bay continues to "sell" the advantages of the GSP, the Authentication programs, etc as a streamlined process for the Buyer and the Seller and they let the Seller believe their responsibility for this HV items and international sales are "better" than if the Seller handled these themselves.  

At first, I just thought it was the poor implementation of the Authentication programs and for weeks now, Sellers have been complaining about GSP and you read these threads and think well, - this Seller just does not understand how this program works.

Guess what?  We don't understand how this works, especially when something goes awry as the Seller expectation is that e-Bay will protect them and in some situations, there is "truth" to that.  But in many, and especially with chargebacks, there is none.  

More than ever, Sellers need e-Bay to "really" (not lip service) get into the "WEEDS" on these fraud issues.  And they need to do it SOON.  

[dbfolks166mt]

     EBay can call and label them whatever they wish to try and disguise what they are but in financial circles and legal terminology they are chargebacks. Even PayPal calls them chargebacks. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.......................... 

[gracieallen01]

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@katzrul15 wrote:

Buyers have certainly figured out, especially international, how to make a chargeback work and stick.  All of our FF situations were chargebacks (did not recognize charge) - So international know how to do this easily, especially the 2 from the Russian Federation.

............

More than ever, Sellers need e-Bay to "really" (not lip service) get into the "WEEDS" on these fraud issues.  And they need to do it SOON.  

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I wouldn't hold your breath, unless you look good in dusky-blue.  Unless it is 'Industry Standard' I don't think it is likely to happen unless someone else pays for it.

[katzrul15]

@gracieallen01 

I know...agree it won't happen.

It should though.  It really should.