Im being scammed and Ebay will not help:(

[dadrock75465]

Im going to just copy and paste my most recent message I emailed to customer service because my head hurts from explaining the story so many times. I’ve always had a no return policy by default but I think I’m going to change that policy because I continuously keep getting scammed and Ebay does nothing to help 😞 The response I got to the following email was just another misconception that I never received the item when I did in fact receive it. Im at my wits end. 

Copied and pasted message: Hello and thank you very much for messaging me and asking for more information. I am happy to provide it. The info you requested is below:

Item number: 

Item title:

Buyer UID: 

Seller (ME) UID:

IMPORTANT: Below i am going to write a description of the issue happening. Unfortunately there is a lot that has to be said since this has so many twists and turns in the story - so its very difficult to keep it brief. Please read everything entirely because there is a lot of valuable information in here! I would really appreciate that. Thank you!

Description of issue: before I listed the game for sale, I tested it to make sure it was working properly.. I actually ended up testing it for over an hour because my girlfriend and I had never played the game before. When the buyer received the item, they messaged me and told me it did not work. I did not believe this but told them that even though I have a no return policy, I would accept a return if I got the item back in its original condition. Nearly an entire week went by without hearing from them. Then suddenly they sent a message telling me they had spent $28 to send it express to me. I replied telling them that they should not have done this because all returns need to go through Ebay‘s return setup. So the buyer then opened a return and i accepted. A couple of days ago I received the item. Or at least, I received what was left of it. The case has a huge crack in it that was not there before. The desk has extra scratches that were not there before. The buyer has obviously damaged the item on purpose. My best guess is that they probably played it during the week they did not respond and now they do not want it so they damaged it and sent it back. Since there was no option to appeal the return on my end, I called eBay customer support. I spoke to a woman who told me something that sounded crazy to me. She informed me that i would not have to lose money but that there were hoops I had to jump through in order to do that. She told me that I would need to refund the buyer in full first. “Thats the way the system requires it” she said. After that, I would need to call eBay customer support again and request an appeal. This did not sound right to me at all. Why would I ever give them the money back? We spent a solid 15 more minutes on the phone due to me asking over and over if there was another way and telling her that it does not sound right at all that I should have to refund the buyer first in order to appeal the return. She was obviously getting annoyed with me and she told me my only two options were A) refund the buyer and THEN call back to appeal or B) do nothing and the buyer would be automatically refunded. I had no choice. I regretfully ended the call and then refunded the buyer as i was told to. I then called back support a second time and explained my story, then filed my appeal. 

Later that day, I received an email about my appeal. Whoever sent that email seemed to think that I was the BUYER and not the seller. They did not seem to understand anything at all about what was going on. I replied to that email and explained what was going on. I received a second email back a couple hours later. This email mistakenly believed that I had never received the item back at all. So of course I sent another email explaining that I had received it and trying to tell the full story of what had happened. A third email came through the next morning. This one told me how I should not have refunded the buyer and now there was nothing that could be done. But I WAS TOLD TO REFUND THEM. This was not a mistake on my part. An actual eBay customer service representative told me the only thing I could do was refund them and so I believed them. This was a phone call at 1:15 PM CST on Thursday, June 17 from my phone number, **********. If this call was recorded then please feel free to listen back to it and you will hear what I am telling you, I give my full permission and consent. 

Anyways, after receiving this email I called back again. The guy that I talked to was very kind and he completely understood what I was talking about. He is the reason that you have messaged me, he submitted another appeal on my behalf. Everything here is going wrong and it’s not fair to me at all. I feel that this buyer is trying to scam me and has seemingly gotten away with it. At the same time, I also feel as if Ebay has let me down by telling me the wrong thing to do. I am not blaming you personally, whoever is reading this, but the original person I talked to at Ebay did in fact tell me wrong. This is such a big mess and is nearly $100 that I have lost that I cannot afford. I really need help and I really hope whoever is reading this can figure out what to do. There was never any miscommunication or misunderstanding on my end, I did everything as i was told and I do believe I was the victim in this case. I understand now that typically cases that are refunded and closed cannot be reversed but I need it to be overriden somehow based on the circumstances of what happened. I never originally called with any plans to refund the buyer but I was told there was no other way   Please help me get this straightened out. Thank you so much for reading this and for your time.

end of message. 

as I said above, the response to this was just another misconception that I had somehow never received the item and that there’s nothing that can be done. I did everything by the books yet the scammer is keeping my money yet destroyed my game. I did exactly what Ebay told me to and now they are telling me I shouldn’t have done exactly what they told me to. Ebay is an absolute mess these days and is hurting very small sellers such as myself. As the kind and understanding Ebay support person I spoke to earlier today said, “ to be honest, I hear similar stories like yours every day and it is a complete mess over here at ebay”. 

[whattheactualfox]

So....Im going to tldr this for other users and myself.

You sold a game disc to a user. You tested it and it works. I assume the condition was marked as used in the listing too. When the disc was sold the buyer sent it back and said it did not work. You then advised the buyer to open up a return. (What was the return reason?) You accepted the return because an ebay rep told you to do that then open a return appeal (appeals can only be done if ebay stepped in and made a final decision.)

After phone calls and emails, it was noted that you should have not refunded the buyer until you got your item back.

Right so let me explain what can be done here. First off when you do a return, you do not refund the buyer until you inspected the item. If there is an issue, report the buyer and contact ebay on FB (https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/) as they are much more helpful with sellers. 

What I can tell you to do now is contact ebay through Facebook and let them know what is going on. Since a refund was issued, it is generally assumed that the issue was resolved and the case is closed, however, due to what is going on, they might make an exception. I cannot speak for them though

[katzrul15]

deleted

[whattheactualfox]

??

[dadrock75465]

Thank you for your reply. I will definitely try messaging them on Facebook. I just want to point out the fact that I did in fact receive the item back and inspected it. The the entire reason I wrote all of this is because upon inspection, the game had been destroyed by the buyer

[luckythewinner]

---

@whattheactualfox wrote:

So....Im going to tldr this for other users and myself.

---

I'm going to tldr this for the OP: 

eBay was not present to inspect what you shipped. 

eBay was not present to inspect what the buyer received. 

eBay was not present to inspect what the buyer returned.  

eBay was not present to inspect what you received as the return. 

Everything that you say happened could have been completely made up by another unscrupulous seller in a similar transaction who actually shipped a damaged game. 

When it comes to "He said, she said" eBay will almost always side with the buyer. 

I'm not saying it is good, and I am not saying it is fair. I'm just stating the facts. 

[kaltos1]

Hope you get this sorted out but one thing you should know, as an eBay seller there is no such thing as a no return policy when they include an INAD reason for return. Your better off to offer returns and get the little benefits they give you for doing so. Its sad but us sellers will always be 2nd to eBay and some buyers know it.

[dadrock75465]

Yeah thats what im starting to learn the hard way 😞 Appreciate your reply and keeping it real. 

[bearswatching]

What is a pand-EBay user?

[whattheactualfox]

lol im so glad you asked!

Panda/ebay user

[fashunu4eeuh]

When it comes to a damaged item, there is not much that the seller can do upon return. But it is not entirely hopeless. There are some actions you can take. There were also some things you could have done differently to mitigate the extenuating circumstances. I will mention them as your sharing your story may help prevent other sellers from facing the same difficulties.

When the buyer first contacted you, you could have sent them a pre-paid label with instructions on what actions they need to take to follow return protocols. You do this because it makes sense to take the buyer at his word. Even if you have suspicions, accusations will only complicate an already bad situation. 

You believe the buyer deliberately sabotaged the item. Why would he do so? Especially since you advised him the game needed to be returned in original condition? Did the two of you exchange heated messages or anything that would explain his revenge?

The two basic possibilities are he damaged it (either accidentally or otherwise) or sent it back with inadequate packaging and it happened in transit.

Could this have been damaged in shipping? If so, was there insurance? How much was this item worth? What carrier did the buyer use to return it? The USPS offers $50 in insurance free for every Priority package ($100 if you are a TRS).

(I will say in passing, that if you were a Top Rated Seller with 30 day returns, or offered Free Returns, you would have had the option to withhold 50% of the refund for an item not returned in its original condition. This is about the only seller protection available to mitigate a faulty return.)

 A return like yours is considered a “faulty” return by eBay, and therefore a cost of doing business here. They expect sellers to take shrinkage into account when managing their eBay concerns. It was a mistake to think that eBay was going to assist you with a fraudulent return. Ebay has the buyer’s interests first and foremost. Sellers, on the other hand, take all the risk. 

The customer service rep was not far off the mark when she advised to refund and then appeal. But the appeal must be carefully prepared and sometimes eBay will suggest opening it for you and when that happens, it is usually just a rubber stamped NO. Below is the link on how to appeal a case. Never let a CSR open one for you since you will need new evidence to give yourself the best chance to win an appeal.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/appeal-ebays-decision-return-missing-item...

When appealing, it is helpful to have case numbers or documented evidence from the authorities showing your side of the story. If you feel fraud has taken place then you should report and get case numbers from the US Postal Inspectors, the police in your and their jurisdiction, and the Internet Crime Complaint Center at ic3.gov.

It used to be these reports gave sellers a slam dunk on their appeals, but no longer is this the case. However it still shows your resolve that you have been defrauded, and that you deem it serious.

Good luck to you moving forward. I am very sorry this dreadful experience happened to you. 

[justafarmgirlatheart]

If you think eBay will ever side with the seller these days you are mistaken. They 99.9% of the time do not even read your rebuttal and go ahead and side with the buyer no matter how ludicrous the actions are by the buyer. All the buyers have to do is request the refund or return and you are pretty much on the hook to refund them no matter what! eBay even pushes top rated sellers to automatically accept the refund and automatically send the refund once the return is delivered. That should tell you that you are in a no win situation. I have been selling since 1998 and have seen the full swing From when you had some protection as a seller to now basically being forced to accept any return, accept being scammed, and issue a refund to the buyer no matter if the buyers claims are outright lies or not. Or if they are scamming you, Recently I sold an antique item that the buyer resold Immediately, then that person attempted to restore it and damaged it  So wanted a refund from the guy I sold it too so after 30 days he requested a return and refund and I had to eat it. Out 300$ plus now have an item I cannot resale. Really it’s so bad , You could present a case that would win in any courtroom in America and ebay will 30 minutes to an hour later side with the buyer without even reading it. Trust me they couldn’t have read my rebuttal, looked at all the photos, made an objective observation of the facts as they should be doing and then made a response in that amount of time, no way. Not even close.  I’ve had it done over and over again to me. That’s why I sell more on Mercari and Facebook Marketplace these days. But they are not perfect either. I remember the good ol days on eBay when the seller could actually leave negative feedback and call out Problem Buyers for there attempts at scamming people And when eBay actually looked at each case and made a fair, objective  and honest ruling based on there policies and facts, but Not anymore because as a seller eBay has changed tremendously, Tomthe point where you have zero protection for yourself as a seller at all Anymore. And trust me I’ve seen almost every scam in the book and had to issue refunds even when they don’t even ship back the same product, it’s not in the same condition, has been damaged, parts removed, empty box, requested the return after the 30 day policy, Wanting to keep item but get partial refund, etc. etc. etc. I could go on and on! I cannot wait until The day Feebay (LOL) is A thing of the past and a new company without their Ridiculous policies and exorbinant fees surpass them. Fingers Crossed. 

[willsonestop]

Really sad to say but it's true.

We've had competitors buy under fake accounts and then literally threaten us because to "get out or else"

eBay did nothing. Buyer's put feedback as positive so it can't be removed, then make absurd comments with lots of bold letters bells and whistles so everyone can see it.. claim we a TRS of some scam I've never heard of saying we aren't shipping their order. But tracking shows delivered. Can't remove the feedback because it's shown as positive.

For God's sake we donate proceeds to charity and some competitor buys a . 99 set of trading cards and before it's delivered leaves feedback like the world has ended.. yet for the past 18 months we had perfect metrics across the board, only when we start selling stuff for charity that undercuts competitors everything unravels. We follow every guideline and every agreement. TRS is not an easy level to achieve but it's really easy to lose when eBay allows this to happen. They don't care about your track record, they don't care about your seller level, they don't care about all the honest feedback that's overwhelming with buyers that who have gone out of their way to emphasize how much we did for them or how much they were happy with their experience with us. But they means nothing to eBay. Never has never will. It's really simple for eBay to see through these ridiculous actions because the Gap between the real honest feedback and this obvious attack on us is not even close. They say they look at track records of both sides but that is blatantly untrue. I've been so wrong about eBay and the changes they proclaimed they are making. It's really devastating because we create jobs, we donate to charity through eBay charity donations and work tirelessly 24/7 just so we do everything right. But we get no help from eBay.

Buyer's literally threatening us and making outrageous demands, we report to eBay and nothing happens.

I've had to hire security for our office for God's sake.

What is going on here!!!! 

[krazzykats]

Old thread from 2021.

[kh-stanley1]

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread HERE if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.