Idea for unpaid buyers

[hubbajubbajoe]

I've listed about 20 items this month and so far I've had to relist 4 because buyers never pay or even contact me back asking if they've changed their mind. 20% unpaid rate is a pretty pathetic and I have blocked buyers set up already.

How about a setting where sellers can specify in the listing how many days the buyer has to pay before it automatically cancels it? Hell, eBay loves fees so just charge for the feature. I'd love to be able to have it say "This listing requires payment within 2 days". That would be clear and concice to the buyer as it would be specified in the listing, and sellers get screwed less having to wait a week or more to close an unpaid case. I don't think this degrades the buyers experience either as eBay primarily focuses on the buyer and not sellers.

Example:

Before someone suggests "Require immediate payment" im talking specifically about auctions.

[ted_200]

I think many sellers would realize that the money would spend just as well next week as it does this week. That annoying buyers to get money a couple of days earlier is not good for the longevity of the site.

I am VERY patient on when they pay.  I'll wait 30 days if they just talk to me and indicate a willingness to pay.  I've had a couple take nearly that long too, but never has a buyer who replied to invoices/reminders in any way never paid.  It's the ones who just never respond to anything...  That said, I'm running auctions, I expect the bid to be treated as binding (as eBay says on their site).  Having to re-list items due to non-payment is problematic, it causes the appearance of shill bidding to other bidders when a "sold" item is relisted.  When it finally gets to the point I have to open an UID, they go on my BBL before I even open it.

Since the money spends the same (and sellers should have a float) then the only reason to harass buyers is a control thing. I sure see why some sellers get bitter and burned out when they cannot force payments today instead of tomorrow.

I have eBay's payment reminders turned off, and send my own reminders, for just that reason.  I am very careful to not have ANYTHING sound like I'm harassing them, and some of the versions of eBay's reminders over the years have sounded downright threatening.  Other than the initial invoice I manually send winners, I won't even contact them again until at least a week has passed.  The vast majority will have paid by then, so that cuts down on how many of these reminders/invoices I have to send out to buyers.  

[ted_200]

That's it, though, it may be that nothing can be done to inspire that communication or facilitate it if the buyer chooses to be uncommunicative.

Possibly they look at it as their having no more obligation to do so than when they abandon a cart in a B & M.  They don't go to the register and report that I was going to buy this but I changed my mind.  

Just some thoughts.

I agree, but that's why I harp about Auctions so much.  An auction is a very different thing than a B & M retail setting, and auctions do not allow for any "I changed my mind".  You can certainly refuse to pay, but you'll lose the $50 deposit you paid for the paddle, and you'll never be issued another one.   

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

Those sellers did you no service. They should have filed and closed unpaid item disputes instead of violating seller policies. They violated the rules. 

Set your bidder blocks to block anyone with more than one UID in the last year. If the same blocks apply in the UK. These are the US boards.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@ted_200 wrote:

That's it, though, it may be that nothing can be done to inspire that communication or facilitate it if the buyer chooses to be uncommunicative.

Possibly they look at it as their having no more obligation to do so than when they abandon a cart in a B & M.  They don't go to the register and report that I was going to buy this but I changed my mind.  

Just some thoughts.

I agree, but that's why I harp about Auctions so much.  An auction is a very different thing than a B & M retail setting, and auctions do not allow for any "I changed my mind".  You can certainly refuse to pay, but you'll lose the $50 deposit you paid for the paddle, and you'll never be issued another one.   

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A very valid point about auctions.  But I think the general public at large, buyers, just don't look at it like that.  For them, they bought something they changed their mind on, and in their minds, no harm, no foul.  I don't know if it is deliberate defiance, carelessness, a lack of knowledge of how the site works, or apathy as to how the site works.  Possibly they just think it is their right to do so.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@pens-n-gems wrote:

If Ebay could be proactive about identifying non-payers and do something about it then that might help. Two days ago I accepted a Best Offer (for a £125 item being sold on behalf of a friend), payment still had not arrived this morning so I took a quick look at the buyer's feedback. On the first two pages alone there were 8 non payments plus other feedback that was not very complimentary (but because of the Feedback setup, all coming under Positive Feedback).

This concerned me so I thought I would contact Customer Services to discuss whether I could cancel the order rather than risk a future issue. I spent 15 minutes being sent in circles trying to find a Contact Link that would take me to someone. As it turned out, when I thought I was going through a 'tutorial' on what to do to cancel, I clicked on the 'problem with address' to see what it said, it was not a tutorial but actually cancelled the sale. I then spent another 10 minutes trying to find a working Link to customer services to explain what had happened, but had to give up. There seems to be no email option or live chat available, the only option was to telephone, but when I clicked on that it was outside the PT opening hours (??)

So two things that Ebay could do ..... i)  Look at how someone with so many Non-Payments and Negative Feedbacks (which actually at first glance show as being Positive Feedbacks) can continue as an active member, and have some sort of obvious Flag that identifies these members   ii) Make it easier to contact Customer Support.

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Years ago, it was three strikes and you were out.  There is much more latitude given this these days.

There was a post by a buyer that said they had been put in the "Buyer's Program", supposedly by mistake and it was very hard to get out of it.  It seems this would be done through buyer's limits as they were only allowed to buy fixed price, immediate payment required listings, and they were kept in the program until they learned good buying behavior.  But what point generated those restrictions was never clarified.

[michael_atw]

..payment still had not arrived this morning so I took a quick look at the buyer's feedback. On the first two pages alone there were 8 non payments plus other feedback that was not very complimentary (but because of the Feedback setup, all coming under Positive Feedback).

Against the rules.  If buyer cared, they could have them all totally removed.  

[michael_atw]

That's it, though, it may be that nothing can be done to inspire that communication or facilitate it if the buyer chooses to be uncommunicative.

Only thing funnier than demanding payment is demanding communication.  I intentionally ignore excessive or otherwise pointless messages from sellers.  It's fun because once in a while one will drive their own self ballistic; four messages blast you and an hour later they cancel the transaction (this being perhaps 48 hours after the purchase was made).   You hear about the ways to spot trouble buyers; well, these are ways to spot trouble sellers. 

[michael_atw]

I'm not looking to force a payment, if they dont want the item so be it.

Then what's the problem?  What's the difference between two days of silence and a UPI strike at 6 days?  

Thing is this probably isnt an issue for sellers who's job is to sell on eBay. From my perspective, I'm selling some stuff that didnt sell at a garage sale or I felt would just make more money online. That means I've got all this stuff out of storage boxes that I've uploaded pictures of and now its just sitting around on my floor waiting to be shipped.

So someone who sells as a hobby things that are of no use and cost very little has a bigger issue with this than someone who has a life hinged on it?  Nope.

Having a buyer not respond is when I get bitter.

I get messages an hour after an auction ends.  Happens easily 40-50% of the time.  I know exactly what is the perogative is regarding this.  Then, if I don't respond, the seller will just as often launch invoices or send a message or more within the next day.  Sellers are not as forgiving as you imply they are by using your experience as an argument.  

Small sellers could not have to put up with peoples antics if they dont want to, and businesses could keep it at 30 days (or anywhere in between).

The ratio of unpaid buyers is the same regardless of size of seller. 

[7606dennis]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

@hubbajubbajoe

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@hubbajubbajoe wrote:

Thanks for all the positive comments everyone!

I normally list most of my items as a fixed listing, but its a shame because auctions are what eBay is know for and currently the experience could be better. Seems like most sellers prefer to do fixed listing too, so eBays going to lose what differentiates itself from other marketplaces. I definately agree though that they've been going in the right direction by shortening the wait to 6 days but I just want to keep nudging them in that direction .

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I prefer Auctions ... to me there is no difference between an Auction that ends in 7 days or a Buyer who purchases a Fixed Price listing on Day 7 ... the starting price is what I would list as fixed price so that part is a wash BUT, an Auction has the potential to bid higher and yeild more profit for the Seller & eBay in FVFs ...

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Actually, I would recommend using a starting bid of what you would have set as a reserve (lowest amount you will take for the item) and if selling fixed price, setting the price at what you actually want for the item.  In the case of an auction with a BIN option, I suggest that you set the BIN at the amount you would expect to get for it in a high street shop.

[michael_atw]

I am VERY patient on when they pay. 

I am very skeptical of that. 

I'll wait 30 days if they just talk to me and indicate a willingness to pay.

I am very skeptical of that.   I can say that I have waited weeks for a payment.  I have waited a month for payment at least once.  That is the manifestation of "patience", IMHO.  I doubt you would hold your position if these were true. 

It causes the appearance of shill bidding to other bidders when a "sold" item is relisted

If you get that many bidders on it, then second chance it to the next one.  Otherwise, it doesn't look like shill bidding.  

I have eBay's payment reminders turned off, and send my own reminders, for just that reason. 

For what reason?  Why would you turn off eBay's auto-program when it works just fine? 

I am very careful to not have ANYTHING sound like I'm harassing them

I'm sure that's what all the sellers say.  Especially the ones I can honestly say are pestering and harassing.  They always justify their behavior.  It's really crazy how bad now sellers act like cornered badgers.  I had one try to emotionally manipulate me just last week after I called her out for lying multiple times about the shipping costs she charged me.  I bet she'd be in here claiming all sorts of negative things about me.  10 bucks says there is a thread, I'm not on enough to see them all. 

and some of the versions of eBay's reminders over the years have sounded downright threatening. 

I, for one, can't say I've ever read one.

I won't even contact them again until at least a week has passed.  

And in that 7 days time, you can open a UID, close it, and relist it a full day.  So there is no problem with eBay's program.  

[castlemagicmemories]

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@michael_atw wrote:

That's it, though, it may be that nothing can be done to inspire that communication or facilitate it if the buyer chooses to be uncommunicative.

Only thing funnier than demanding payment is demanding communication.  I intentionally ignore excessive or otherwise pointless messages from sellers.  It's fun because once in a while one will drive their own self ballistic; four messages blast you and an hour later they cancel the transaction (this being perhaps 48 hours after the purchase was made).   You hear about the ways to spot trouble buyers; well, these are ways to spot trouble sellers. 

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I just don't see how you can mandate communication from anyone.  JMO

[michael_atw]

And why?  The old adage is, silence is golden.  How I love silence from buyers.

[ted_200]

I am very skeptical of that. 

I am very skeptical of that.   I can say that I have waited weeks for a payment.  I have waited a month for payment at least once.  That is the manifestation of "patience", IMHO.  I doubt you would hold your position if these were true. 

I'm not sure what you're saying there, it soulds like you're suggesting I'm lying?  I'm not. 

If you get that many bidders on it, then second chance it to the next one.  Otherwise, it doesn't look like shill bidding. 

I've sent these out (SCO) in the past, never... not even once... has anyone taken me up on it.  If relisting suggests there might be shill bidding going on in the eyes of other bidders, sending out SCO just screams it.  Is that what EVERY ONE of them thought?  Probably not.  No doubt, a few anyhow, simply were not interested since it has now been a week (in my case, 2 weeks) since the item ended. 

I've received a couple of them myself, as the buyer, and they all looked like shill bid listings to me (was happening frequently, "winner" was suspicious looking bid pattern, and I don't think the sellers were getting 10% or 20% unpaid items!).  The ones I received within hours were even funnier!

For what reason?  Why would you turn off eBay's auto-program when it works just fine? 

As I already explained, they sounded threatening and harassing.  And they will send them to bidders I've been in contact with and we've already agreed they can wait to pay (usually until next week, so they can combine more items).

I'm sure that's what all the sellers say. 

Usually it's boilerplate. 

Hi (bidder's actual name), Your item is packaged and ready to be shipped.  However it cannot be sent until it has been paid for.  If there is any problem, or you have any questions, please let me know.  Thanks for the bids, I really appreciate it!

Regards, Ted. 

Most frequent responses, in order:  1. Payment.  2.  Nothing.  3.  I tried to pay, it won't let me.  4.  (Lame excuse), I want to cancel (which I agree to, 100% of the time, immediately after adding them to the BBL). 

I, for one, can't say I've ever read one.

I've never received one myself, and since eBay doesn't copy the seller on the bot generated spam they send my buyers... however, they've been the subject of DB posts, and some versions they've sent out in past years were quite threatening and demanding.  I don't even know what they currently look like, but I don't want them going out at 48 hours or to bidders I have made arrangements with anyhow.

And in that 7 days time, you can open a UID, close it, and relist it a full day.  So there is no problem with eBay's program.  

I'd rather get paid, and relists almost never get as much money - most bidders won't come back the next time.  There are PLENTY of problems with eBay's program, too many to go over here on a post that's too long already.  I'll just leave it at:  100% of the negative f/b I've received (over a dozen) was a direct result of eBay's Unpaid Item process. 

[ted_200]

I just don't see how you can mandate communication from anyone.  JMO

You can't.  But refusing to communicate is the ONLY way you'll ever end up with an Unpaid Item Strike from me.  Of course, the Unpaid Strike is utterly useless, so that's not really much incentive to communicate, is it? 

[castlemagicmemories]

I'd rather get paid, and relists almost never get as much money - most bidders won't come back the next time.  There are PLENTY of problems with eBay's program, too many to go over here on a post that's too long already.  I'll just leave it at:  100% of the negative f/b I've received (over a dozen) was a direct result of eBay's Unpaid Item process. 

That is so true but I just can't fathom why.  If there were several bidders and spirited bidding, where did everyone go?  Wouldn't you look again to see if it was relisted if you lost?  I would.

There was a listing years ago that perfectly illustrates this.  It was a Halloween porcelain doll from Joanne's, just beautiful, and I was amazed to see the very spirited buying on this.  The dolls sold for $10.00 at Joanne's and went for well over $50.00.  Now whether it was a no pay or not, maybe the seller had another one just like it, it was relisted.  And the poor thing didn't get one bid!

I wondered what happened there~as in, where did everyone go?  I know other things may come up, but...