INR refunds and subsequent USPS delivery - how are Sellers protected ?

[oaktoncardinal]

I have FIVE (5) packages (to different buyers) mailed via USPS at the same time (at the counter) on 11/28/23 that are stuck in a 500,000 package backlog in the at the USPS Richmond VA Mail Processing Center. They are not lost.

Questions –

a: If I give a refund via the INR process and the package is delivered can I get my money back? What is the process?

b: Can I get my item back in lieu of getting my money back? What is the process?

Please if you can't answer my questions don't reply.

(I have contacted the USPS Regional Director, Plant Manager and Division Director.  I have created a Case and filed Missing Mail reports.  I have spoken to the Postmaster at my Post Office numerous times though nothing has any impact on getting the mailed moved. As I stated, they have a backlog so bad drivers are having a hard time dropping off the mail at the processing center.  USPS is diverting some mail to other processing centers, specifically Greensboro NC and I think Philly.  The backlog is bad.  I am told a contributing factor in the backlog is employees and new hires not showing up for work

Thru all of this I have kept my buyers informed of the situation but these purchases include items intended as Christmas presents and I have a couple of buyers that will need their money back sooner than later. )

[ebooksdiva]

If you refund the buyer and the buyer receives the item, there is no getting your money or the item back.

The only time you would receive payment or your item is when you’re dealing with an honest buyer.

Honest buyers are rare. 
If your buyer wants to pay for the item after you’ve refunded they can pay you through PayPal.

If the buyer wants to return the item they would simply refuse the package.

[centralperk781]

How valuable are these items? You could always put in for a package intercept and have the items returned to you. This will cost you money, but if you need to refund the buyers and also want your items back, it’s an option. 

If these are $300 items, then if it comes to it, intercept. If they sold for $10, it might not be worth the cost to have them returned to you. 

[az93]

Intercept won't work. I tried it once. The package can only be intercepted if it has not left in a plane or landed. At least that was my experience. There was a tiny time frame to intercept the package. In my case it was a pricey pair of sunglasses with instructions from buyer to hold his mail and not forward to the freight forwarder. I never got the package back and the buyer wouldn't answer me.

[oaktoncardinal]

Thank you.  I had forgotten about this service and have never used it.  I have two items of the five that I would most likely use this for if I am forced to give a refund.  I remain hopeful that items will start moving but with each day that passes my confidence in the USPS dims.

I am frustrated b/c eBay knows about the backlog in Richmond and should extend protections to Sellers like they do for natural disasters, in my opinion.

I also think a refund to the Buyer due to INR should reversed/reimbursed to the Seller if/when the item is delivered.  That would be a Seller protection.

Thanks again, this is helpful.

[dbfolks166mt]

If you refund the buyer and the buyer receives the item, there is no getting your money or the item back.

The only time you would receive payment or your item is when you’re dealing with an honest buyer.

Honest buyers are rare. 
If your buyer wants to pay for the item after you’ve refunded they can pay you through PayPal.

If the buyer wants to return the item they would simply refuse the package. Not the best idea for a buyer since under this scenario the seller is under no obligation to refund them. 

[mam98031]

Anytime there is an issue with the tracking via USPS on a package there are some steps you should take right away.

First go to the USPS website and call up the tracking number and review all the entries.

Second sign up for email notifications to any changes to the tracking.  Click on the down arrow to the right of "Text & Email Updates".  Fill in the info.

This serves to give you up to date info on the movements of the package.  It can be real handy if you end up closing the INR out and refunding the buyer because the item really was lost.  Then if the item gets delivered at a later date, you will be notified.  You can then contact the buyer and let them know you are aware that the item has finally been delivered.  Politely and professionally ask them if they want to repay you for the item and keep it or if they would prefer to return it to you.

If you don't hear anything from the buyer, there really isn't much you can do about pushing this, but you can notify Ebay and see if you can get Ebay to cover it.  Depending on the situation, they may refund you.

Now you need to go and file for a TRACE on the package.

https://usps.my.site.com/emailus/s/

Just fill in the info they ask you.  You will need the buyers address, so make sure you have that info ready when you go to fill in the info.

Make a note of the Tracking claim number as it could be handy later.

Contact your buyer and let them know that you have filed for a Trace on the package and you will keep them fully informed with any information you get from USPS.  Let them know it takes 48-72 hours for them to respond.

If there is an open INR, ALL you communications with the buyer should be done inside the claim.  Even if the buyer emails you in regular Ebay emails, respond in the claim.

There is no reason this should be getting refunded anytime in the next few days.   Ebay will keep an INR minimally if there is movement / tracking entry within the last 7 days.  

[ebooksdiva]

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@dbfolks166mt wrote:

If you refund the buyer and the buyer receives the item, there is no getting your money or the item back.

The only time you would receive payment or your item is when you’re dealing with an honest buyer.

Honest buyers are rare. 
If your buyer wants to pay for the item after you’ve refunded they can pay you through PayPal.

If the buyer wants to return the item they would simply refuse the package. Not the best idea for a buyer since under this scenario the seller is under no obligation to refund them. 

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That scenario was if the seller has already refunded. 

[luckythewinner]

INR refunds and subsequent USPS delivery - how are Sellers protected?

Sellers are not protected if they refund and then tracking shows subsequent delivery. I believe eBay's Seller protection is limited to the expected delivery window. 

"If you ship an item within your stated handling time, and you upload tracking before the estimated delivery date from one of eBay's integrated shipping carriers that shows evidence of successful delivery, you won't be responsible for refunding the buyer."

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protections?id=4345

Read that carefully. It is worded a little ambiguously, but it essentially says that both the upload AND the successful delivery must happen before the estimated delivery date. 

If you or eBay choose to refund the buyer, eBay has no legal way to claw the money or the item back from the buyer. And they aren't likely to cover the loss for you unless you are lucky enough to get a "courtesy refund". 

[drinkwine1204]

I implemented the package intercept feature with USPS once and did receive my package back, it took about 2 weeks. The cost is $15, not cheap but worth it in some situations. 

Best of luck. I have 2 packages in limbo in the middle of the country on another site, one buyer was refunded by the site and I kept the funds, the other will have to wait a few more days for the outcome but no movement. Both are near the near the Richmond VA cluster. 

If you use the intercept, keep your receipt. You can take that on your taxes.

[kensgiftshop]

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@oaktoncardinal wrote:

a: If I give a refund via the INR process and the package is delivered can I get my money back? What is the process?

Only if the buyer will repay.

You ask the buyer if they'll repay since they received the item, but there's no way to make them.

b: Can I get my item back in lieu of getting my money back? What is the process?

Ask the buyer if they'll return the package.

If they will, send them a prepaid shipping label and hope they use it to return the item.

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[12345jamesstamps]

 I had some items that took forever to get to my buyers in Virginia. I was sweating bullets. I understand your items are outgoing and mine were incoming sitting in the Virginia hub.

I would not refund. Buyers are not going to refund you back. They need like a Pay Pal account or something and have to be honest.

I had tracking on my packages in Virgina and I couldn't see movement of them for a long time. I received no responses from the buyers and I did not email any of the buyers. The packages finally arrived and had no problems with the buyers. I also used USPS. It took like weeks for one package Priority to get to my buyer in Virginia. This is the holiday season and we should realize there will be delays.

I think unless a buyer contacts you I would not contact them. This is how you are going to get stuck doing refunds which are not necessary yet.

I just had a buyer leave me positive feedback saying it was a good sale but took a long time to receive and buyer stated it wasn't my fault...I guess the post mark shows that. And buyer stated he would buy from me again.

[mam98031]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

INR refunds and subsequent USPS delivery - how are Sellers protected?

Sellers are not protected if they refund and then tracking shows subsequent delivery. I believe eBay's Seller protection is limited to the expected delivery window. 

"If you ship an item within your stated handling time, and you upload tracking before the estimated delivery date from one of eBay's integrated shipping carriers that shows evidence of successful delivery, you won't be responsible for refunding the buyer."

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protections?id=4345

Read that carefully. It is worded a little ambiguously, but it essentially says that both the upload AND the successful delivery must happen before the estimated delivery date. 

If you or eBay choose to refund the buyer, eBay has no legal way to claw the money or the item back from the buyer. And they aren't likely to cover the loss for you unless you are lucky enough to get a "courtesy refund". 

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@luckythewinner 

You are interpreting that statement incorrectly.  That policy says NOTHING about a "successful delivery".  It says you need to have the tracking number uploaded to the transaction BEFORE the "estimated delivery date".  It says nothing about having to be delivered by that date.