I believe I figured the real WHY on the GTC change, and its not what you think..

[crownsfieldcellular]

I've been on these boards voicing my extreme dissatisfaction with the loss of listing time options for several days.  I've called ebay multiple times, and I've ranted and raved.  I think a lot of this came out of shock and confusion, as I just could not figure out why in God's name they would have done this.

To ME, in my mind, eliminating the urgency that short duration auctions provided was basically suicidal for eBay, and homicidal to my business by eBay's hand.

It's taken me a few days to digest this change, and really put it into perspective.   I think I have finally come up with the bigger picture answer here, and I have begun to see this from eBay's perspective.

Let me start this by saying this:  eBay is not an evil, greedy corporation, looking to suck everyone's blood and destroy everyone's businesses. 

eBay is simply a BUSINESS themselves.  But eBay is a different kind of business than any of us run on their site (unless any of you are running a global, publicly traded corporation on eBay - then you are excluded from that statement). 

They are a Multinational GIGANTIC global corporation, which is publicly traded on Wall Street.  They have shareholders to answer to, board members, and also of course almost 7 million sellers. 

So while I may not agree with everything they do (all of us might not)?  It's important to try to think like them, and consider that they are trying to keep eBay afloat and viable for EVERYONE, including their sellers that depend on them and this website.

If they do not produce profits, growth, dividends and good stats for their shareholders (who may be some of you too), and get their stock price to go up?  There will be no more eBay. 

We will just wake up one day and our favorite market place will be gone.  It's a sobering reality to think about.  I would be extremely, extremely upset and crushed if eBay were to be no more personally.

That said, many of you may become very angry at what I am going to reveal here, some not so much, and some of you might not care.  But understand I am not writing this to "unmask a villian" here and reveal the "evil master plan"..

What's going on here is simply a calculated business decision, and it actually makes a lot of sense (whether you agree with it in full or not).  

What I've seen on these boards (and some of these opinions were previously espoused by me as well) are some basic (incorrect I believe) assumptions, and judgements as to why eBay instituted this GTC change -  and took away our previous options:

1) "It's a sneaky fee grab because they are depending on my unwanted GTC renewal fees as a cash cow because they can't produce more sales!!"

I don't believe this is true.  I firmly believe eBay will remedy this unwanted consequence somehow, because I do not believe this was their intention.  They have also come out vehemently that this was NOT their intention by doing this.  I do not think they are lying to our faces that blatantly.  This was not their real intention for this change (In my opinion).

2) "They're idiots who have no idea how to run this website!!  They arent actual eBay sellers and they are making changes just to make them without realizing how much they are going to hurt my (and their) sales!!"

I was one of the people saying this initially.  I do not think this is the case anymore.  One thing is for certain at least?  They are NOT idiots.

3)"They are trying to push all the small sellers off the site!! They dont want us here anymore!! They just want big China companies (Big corporations, etc)!!"

Again, no I do not think this is their real intention either.  Although it might be an unfortunate collateral consequence it seems, to early to tell.  I do not believe that this was the "spirit" behind this decision though.  It just doesn't make enough sense.  "Casual" sellers who create bad buying experiences for customers are already being weeded out by their other systems, so it just wouldn't make financial sense to axe 30% of your sales force in this way.  The revenue losses would be tremendous, and there would be little to no way to make up for them (again in my opinion that is).

4) "They want to force me to buy a store subscription even though I don't want one!!"

This is probably true, but it's not the whole picture.  Us buying store subscriptions though makes them more money, so obviously if this was one of the reasons for the change?  It would make sense, and I couldn't argue with it as a capitalist understanding they are running a business as well, and knowing all the things I said initially.   So this one?  Probably true, but not the main intention (in my opinion again)

Why is eBay really doing this?   Here is my synopsis:

I believe now that forced GTC is a way to basically nudge more sellers to start using promoted listings.

It's a very covert way of raising their Final Value Fees without actually announcing that change (and really pissing people off)...

I think they thought the change to GTC really wouldn't upset too many people, because they claimed that 80% of listings on the site are already GTC anyway.

I think they underestimated how many people would be upset about this though, and this amount of backlash was not what they were anticipating. 

It's just ironic that all that backlash has been coming from complaints that were incorrect about their agenda (in my opinion).

I believe eBay figured something out here as far as the short term listing duration options go:  I believe that they figured out that sellers were getting "free" organic boosts on the site, using these options.

Especially the 3 day option, which is basically all promoted organically..You get the newly listed boost for a while, and then pretty much right after that ends you are getting a free ending soon boost as well.  Plus you are getting free buyer urgency to help you make a sale.  You were charged nothing for all this before (except the FVF fee and a nominal listing fee if you had no store)

I believe that eBay  came to the realization and made the decision: "Why give sellers something for free?  when we can start charging them to promote instead?" 

I think this the biggest reason they have done this now.

Also, and I know this is true for me; I don't use promoted listings for shorter duration BIN listings. I don't have to really.

So by allowing those duration options there for my (our) use?  They were actually losing money on a big segment of sellers who they believe will now start paying for promotions instead. 

They were leaving money on the table before.  This closes that gap.

Now with this change?

It totally levels the playing field for everyone and there are NO organic boosts anymore.  (outside of "newly" listed, but how long does that last when all your listings start going through the GTC cycles, if they do?)

With everything GTC there is no longer ending soonest boosting, as nothing ever technically "ends". Plus there's no more organic urgency. If you think how great that is for eBay, with their promoted listing structure in place to fill the gap?  It's almost astonishing.

It's a complete win - win for them. Now as a seller you can have slow or moderate sales compared to what you had before with your short duration's? OR you can promote your listings to get them to sell faster, and pay higher Final Value Fees voluntarily.

And of course? You can always lower your prices to get faster sales. Either way? eBay wins (in their minds at least I think).

Eliminating the shorter duration's to me now is just eliminating a few freebies they were giving away for a long time - Organic listing boosting is definitely one of them.

In one fell swoop they took that away completely, and also took away the free URGENCY that those listings created for buyers as well. 

I couldn't figure out why in god's name they would have done this.  Until this all hit me.  Because that URGENCY?  Is also a FREE TOOL they had been giving us. 

Now?  No More.  Now it's basically just paid promotions.

eBay has very, very brilliantly changed the entire landscape of their market, in a very simple way.  To accommodate and usher in a whole new "promotion" game it seems to me. 

And they are proving that there is no free lunch out there big time.

I'm not as angry now that I understand this.  I'm not thrilled about it either, but I'm also not as confused.  Now this all makes sense from their perspective at least.

I've also heard that they will be initiating a feature where you can send offers to watchers.  I think this is brilliant, and it will actually help very much to convert GTC listings (which in the past you simply could not do at all, except running a sale maybe). 

I also like the idea that every listing now with have automatic Make Offer included for free (at least this is what I heard they are going to start doing site wide). 

I think these two features will help with sales a lot.  I don't use best offer too much now, but admittedly in the past it has helped me make a lot more sales when I did.  So they aren't wrong about that.

In a nutshell?  I think what I listed above was the "master plan" though..

It's really the only thing that really makes sense from a big picture, macroscopic lens that eBay sees the world and the market place through.

All in all, I do not think it's a bad idea.  I think it balances out their needs as a business to survive, and our needs to make sales and money pretty well.  If you think of it in those terms, which you really have to.  If you want eBay to be here to sell on.

If this truth **bleep** you off?  I'm sorry, but it seems it is what it is at this point.

I can't say that I am definitely going to start promoting my listngs, but maybe I will at 1 or 2% to compensate for the other lost free tools.  Luckily my profits on my items are usually good enough, and my FVF's in my category are pretty low as to where I wont really feel a 1% increase or so in FVF's.

But that's just me. 

I have no idea how others will fare with this, and I doubt eBay does either. 

This seems like a very calculated "hail mary" play, where if it works?  It might work wonders. 

If it blows up in their face with the sellers?  It could also spell catastrophe as well.

I guess we'll see how it plays out. 

That's my new take on all this.  It's their sandbox, and I need and want them around as a venue to sell on.  

So I'm going to stick around and see how this all plays out.

It could wind up being for the best. Or it could wind up being the worst thing they have ever done/tried and sink the entire website.  That's the cold reality of all this.

We shall see

Good Luck to you all.

[crownsfieldcellular]

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@extraordinarilyyou wrote:
Couldn't you have done this post in a way that did not require reading a book? It is all speculative, so you may as well have gotten right to the point and been done with it. I feel like I just wasted 10 minutes of my life.

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Well, certainly no one came on here and forced you to read anything.  Did you check the length of the post before you made the decision to read it? 

If you don't like my posts?  Simply don't read them.  You still have that freedom in your life. 

Luckily for you?  Your life probably isn't very valuable anyway (judging by your attitude and the way you talk to people).  So the 10 minutes really shouldn't be a "big" loss for you.

Of course that is 10 less minutes you get to spend in the closet **bleep** with your farm animal porn magazines.

But you can simply "double down" on that activity to make up for the 10 minutes you lost today.  No worries.

Good Luck with that!

[crownsfieldcellular]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:
click2buyusa,
I'm not going to get into why ebay did this, just want to correct something you said:

'With everything GTC there is no longer ending soonest boosting, as nothing ever technically "ends". "

As has now been explained many times on this Board, for purposes of the "Ending Soonest" search, a GTC is treated the same as a 30 Day Fixed Price listing. As it closes in on 30 days, it shows up in Ending Soonest. Technically, a GTC ends after 30 days, but then auto renews. So ebay treats it like a regular 30 day listing. If a watcher is watching a GTC listing, as the GTC listing approaches its renewal date, the watcher is notified that the listing is about to end...which can create a sense of urgency for that watcher.

For purposes of a "newly listed" search, a GTC is treated as new ONLY when it is first listed, in other words, when it really IS new. Its auto renewals are not treated as if it were a new listing. In this way, (assuming all sellers used GTCs without listing them early and relisting), a buyer searching "newly listed" would actually see only listings that are new to the site, not listings that are being relisted over and over again to get a bump in newly listed. Many buyers have expressed a desire for this over the years, as many are tired of seeing items constantly relisted, often with no change to the price, photos, or anything else.

---

Point taken, but then my theory still holds.  They they took away the front end organic boosts with GTC, but back end is still (if you are correct) in place.  Doesn't really change my reasoning, it's just a different boost they did away with using the change.

Also, it has to be pointed out that the 30 day ending boost is ludicrous for items you are looking to sell and turn over fast.  A 30 day auction would be your last, worst choice to move an item like that, because you wouldn't get that ending boost until 29 days later.

So this plays into my theory as well very neatly.  You want a boost now before 29 days?  Pay for it.  Very simple.

My ideas on this have not changed.

[crownsfieldcellular]

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@the_boatwiser wrote:

You have way to much time on your hands to come up with that pile.  The best thing for ebay is to have sellers sell and sell quickly - period.  More sales = more FVF for them, less sales or slowed sales = less FVF for them.  A good business decision is quicker income not slower sales.  3-5 day BIN sales = quick sales.  What do you think, everyone now will go Oh Boy, I'll spend all kinds of money paying for listings I never spent before to sell the same amount or less than I was selling before this loser of a move by ebay went into effect.  I doubt too many people will spend more to make the same or less.  And if you don't know the stock is doing just fine without this idiotic GTC.

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Wow, great attitude and response.  Very beneficial also and thought provoking.  If you missed it (which you most likely did, given your intelligence level you displayed here), I was in no way "advocating" the change, nor was I in anyway saying I thought this was a great idea.  The entire jist of the post was to relay that I thought I understood the motivation for this change on eBay's part, outside of the norm of what I had been reading on here.

No where did I say that this was a "good idea", nor that I didnt want my options back.

Given your response, again, I'm not surprised that this went entirely over your head.

Good luck to you in life Sir, as you will certainly need it given your obvious "limitations"..

[crownsfieldcellular]

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@kathieskorner wrote:

I would never presume to post about what the current eBay's management was "thinking" with the GTC change.  I tried wading through the OP's convoluted "real why on the GTC change, and it made as much sense as the kitty cat flap the eBay VP has posted.   

And personally, I could care less about the "Why" - it makes no sense when the option has been available for those who wish to use it for years, and those not using GTC probably have equally good reasons for not doing so.  

---

Who asked you to "presume" to make that kind of post?  And who asked for your opinion on this one? 

You rude, low life, clown shoe?  This post is for adult people with "working brains"..It does not apply to you, and it's obviously out of your "depth"..

Run along now, you still need to fasten your helmet as the short bus will be arriving soon.

[crownsfieldcellular]

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@auctionpet wrote:

clicktobuyusa wrote ".......To ME, in my mind, eliminating the urgency that short duration auctions provided was basically suicidal for eBay, and homicidal to my business by eBay's hand....."

Ebay has NOT eliminated short duration auctions!  It's Fixed Price that have become only GTC.  You rant and rave, yet you don't understand the difference. Your post was WAY too long, reading the first few paragraphs with you claiming auctions have been eliminated was all I needed to read. 

---

Oh my god, here we go again..Are you really serious?? 

Do you really after reading the post not know what I was talking about when I said "short term auctions"...SHORT TERM BUY IT NOW AUCTIONS...

Get it now??

If you dont understand this?  A Buy It Now listing is still technically an AUCTION on eBay..It just has a fixed price.

So trust me?  It's not ME who has the problem here.  It's you who can't comprehend simple terminologies outside your "box" of understanding, and use basic reading comprehension skills to ascertain what someone is talking about.

It's a shame that we have to live in world with people like yourself, who couln't out think an eggplant on their best day.

and if the post was too long??? 

DONT READ IT IN THE FIRST PLACE.

For a normal rationale human being?  They would understand that they had that choice.  However, we have to keep in mind we are dealing with someone like yourself.  So all "intellectual" bets are officially "off".

[rubyfriday]

Good till cancelled

[sharingtheland]

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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@sharingtheland wrote:

I was told long ago, by someone in the know, that having preowned/new sites - basically two websites - would cost ebay too much.   The inference was the preowned site would never pull its weight.

---

As a life long software developer/database manager, this is definitely just misleading PR. The amount of hardware it would require would be comparable.

The biggest developmental work would be in the API itself. But given that Motors already functions independently/separately in the API as is, they can reuse most of that code.

Beyond that, as a matter of fact, if the second site "didn't pull it's own weight", that would make it much more affordable. Collectibles might not be as lucrative as new items, but eBay was known for many millions per year in sales of collectibles. It would take nowhere near even a months amount of investment to get it up and running.

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Ah, zamo, don't shoot the messenger.    I agree with what you're saying; it was an ebay person who told me that.   

The ebay person also told me the biggest money maker (at the time, 8? years ago) was Motors and that justified the expense of running two platforms, or whatever the tech word is.  Ebay would have to hire more people and CS to handle yet another site.  Again, not saying I was told the truth but there are kernels of correctness in the spiel I received.

Logically, if ebay thought having a separate site for preowned would increase the bottom line, ebay would do it.  Yes, I know the use of the word "logically" can cause eyeball rolling.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

click2buyusa,

As my post stated in its first line: " I'm not going to get into why ebay did this, just want to correct something you said"

You say "point taken", which I assume means you agree with my correction about how GTC functions as it comes up on its renewal period.

My post was not meant to change your mind about your theory. I have no desire to change your mind about your theory. It's your theory, and you obviously spent considerable time devising it, and working through it, and you are satisfied with it, and that right there is a wonderful thing. So much dissatisfaction in the world today, it's quite pleasant to see someone satisfied with something. Everyone's entitled to their own theory, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm just happy you found yours.

[mr_lincoln]

@crownsfieldcellular   Interesting viewpoint on many angles of GTC ...  my comments

1. I completely agree that they are a multi-billion dollar global corporation

2. You mentioned 7 million Sellers ... eBay has published 25 million ... where did you get that number?

3. I agree that GTC is a business decision BUT: they have tracked and know on "average" how many Sellers wind up having double Relistings in a month that generate Fees for them.  They know that by forcing all other Sellers in to GTC it will generate a certain amount of revenue from fees.

4. Regarding them rectifying this GTC mandate regarding fees ... go back to #3 ... they knew ahead of time what it will do for their bottom line, they knew ahead of time how the calendar works based on 365 or 366 (leap year) days a year with a 30 day dividend ... they could have INCLUDED a Fee Waiver with the "early" announcement to put people at ease who know how the calendar works ... they made the "early" announcement AND activated the mandate prior to the beginning of April ... which just happens to have a high number of days that will result in double relisting months this year:

April 1 listings will double in May

April 2 listings will double in July

April 3 listings will double in August

April 4 listings will double in October

If that wasn't a calculated move I don't know what is

5. I am on the fence as to how much extra work this will cause ... I am  not convinced that ending and relisting GTCs will affect sales in lower saturated categories and things may wind doing better by letting them sit and Relist automatically with GTC.  I think there is a big difference in Sellers who are say  1 of 1000 selling men's T-shirts compared to say 1 of 20 Sellers who are selling a rare toy.  If the rare toy is searched they should all come up on one page ... not so with men's T-Shirts.

6. I feel the same about Promoted Listing Campaigns ... I think they will have less effect in highly saturated categories as more Sellers use them, they'll be splitting hairs on the PL % where as lower saturated categories may see a better return on PL if not for the items Promoted but the traffic it drives to a Seller's listings ... the latter is why I think I have seen with my work on PL Campaigns ...

[zamo-zuan]

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@sharingtheland wrote:

---

@zamo-zuan wrote:

---

@sharingtheland wrote:

I was told long ago, by someone in the know, that having preowned/new sites - basically two websites - would cost ebay too much.   The inference was the preowned site would never pull its weight.

---

As a life long software developer/database manager, this is definitely just misleading PR. The amount of hardware it would require would be comparable.

The biggest developmental work would be in the API itself. But given that Motors already functions independently/separately in the API as is, they can reuse most of that code.

Beyond that, as a matter of fact, if the second site "didn't pull it's own weight", that would make it much more affordable. Collectibles might not be as lucrative as new items, but eBay was known for many millions per year in sales of collectibles. It would take nowhere near even a months amount of investment to get it up and running.

---

Ah, zamo, don't shoot the messenger.    I agree with what you're saying; it was an ebay person who told me that.   

The ebay person also told me the biggest money maker (at the time, 8? years ago) was Motors and that justified the expense of running two platforms, or whatever the tech word is.  Ebay would have to hire more people and CS to handle yet another site.  Again, not saying I was told the truth but there are kernels of correctness in the spiel I received.

Logically, if ebay thought having a separate site for preowned would increase the bottom line, ebay would do it.  Yes, I know the use of the word "logically" can cause eyeball rolling.

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Apologies if it seemed I was shooting the messenger!

Haha, I'm more calling THEM out for making those claims.

Collectibles sellers have been suffering, and considering they are not just a large part of what made eBay what they are today, but they were a large part of the "serious" eBayers, and probably the #1 sellers that spread "word of mouth" for eBay, it's ridiculous that they are not supporting those types of sellers anymore.

How often have you heard sellers of new products praising eBay and encouraging others to buy? I've rarely if ever heard it outside of our own business. If I consider customers praising eBay? It's usually ones looking for best price (which you don't see anymore), and most customer feedback is horror stories from bad experiences/taking a huge amount of time for returns (which eBay has no system to handle, as they don't consider feedback in search AT ALL, and don't differentiate between "fraudulent" and "legit" returns). 

But I would constantly hear about eBay from collectibles fans, work at home retirees, people who used eBay as a supplemental job, etc.

Not anymore though 😕 It's so sad they are giving away their advantages.

Whether it's a top priority or not, they are losing money by applying all the the catalog/policy changes to them, and that could have been avoided if they simply forked them off to a different platform before focusing on "new" items. 

[originaltexan]

click2 buy...looks like you have three auctions running?  

[crownsfieldcellular]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:
click2buyusa,

As my post stated in its first line: " I'm not going to get into why ebay did this, just want to correct something you said"

You say "point taken", which I assume means you agree with my correction about how GTC functions as it comes up on its renewal period.

My post was not meant to change your mind about your theory. I have no desire to change your mind about your theory. It's your theory, and you obviously spent considerable time devising it, and working through it, and you are satisfied with it, and that right there is a wonderful thing. So much dissatisfaction in the world today, it's quite pleasant to see someone satisfied with something. Everyone's entitled to their own theory, as far as I'm concerned, and I'm just happy you found yours.

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Hey yes I 100% agree and thank you for your correction, and thank you for the kind words.  I may be wrong completely, but I firmly believe a good portion of that theory maps onto reality well.  And yes, I'm sticking to it lol.  I'm glad you enjoyed it and finding it.  Thanks

[mod-designs4u]

Here's an update regarding the newly invented "send offers to watchers" feature. It's worked for me a few times with success. I've found that the more watchers there are the greater likelihood of success (the phenomenon of mathematics and probabilities). If there's only a few watchers the likelihood of success is diminished due to the probability factor of the watchers not seriously interested in the item (lookie-loos and other sellers peddling the same merchandise). I'll give credit where credit is due...this was a good idea from eBay. Perhaps eBay is reading our constructive criticism comments on this forum. I remember commenting on the eBay Community Forum several months ago with respect to a seller "lowering their price" (editing the listing) and "how would watchers/potential customers" be notified. Good luck everyone!  

[castlemagicmemories]

There may be more success with sending an offer to a buyer, IMO, because that is more direct than simply lowering the price and then the buyer gets a message saying you viewed at that price, but now it is this price. It seems more targeted, and specific as opposed to the later.

[flo_mingo]

I realized this during the first few days. I had never been savvy enough to use the short 3 day listings. I am sorry I Missed that logic- brilliant! WHAT I NEED NOW IS 30 DAY LISTINGS LIKE I ALWAYS HAD. I was not one of the brilliant marketers who got "free boosts" I wish I had been. But to succeed with my business model I need the option for my items to end in 30 days. I do not want the added task of counting days and ending my listings like this as an on-line "Whack - a-Mole game. Ebay could have just as easily added a listing fee for short duration sales. As the do for 1 or 3 day  auctions. The big sellers can afford that added cost. The small sellers do not want this GTC with the added tracking and canceling.