03-11-2024 03:53 AM
It is only ethical be be transparent and ACCURATE when stating what % of fees is being taken out for sellers. This is provably shown what they state as fees taken out is incorrect . Which technically is fraud in a couple different aspects. Most importantly have to do the math correctly (which it is not) and use words correctly (like claiming to list am item for free when there is literally a listing fee of .$30 min taken out just to list an item. ** charging $ is the opposite of FREE btw) to be able to be honest with the sellers who are the life line of this entire platform. the fees taken out on the amount you say the fee is for is being multipled with the tax included. that money is not income or revenue for the seller (and never ever would see that money to be considered part of there revenue. In fact the IRS clearly states that taxes are not to be counted as revenue because they are not for a business or personal seller. But aside from that it's still incorrect the way that they do their math. eBay is incorrectly accounting for this. let me use you example given by eBay, then show the reality of this. If someone sells a 400 dollar item @6% tax (which is a ridiculously low amount for a tax of any state) =424+(.35+.30), so @13.5% seller fee as claimed on $424=$57.24+$.65=$57.89. eBay states it's about 84% margin before shipping. NOT TRUE. tax according to IRS IS NOT revenue sales EVER. so using this in the equation for the fee is unethical & incorrect. $400-57.89=342.11 after fees & before shipping. so not only is 13.5% actually 342/400=.855(14.5% Fees take out of our GROSS EARNINGS) but the correct math percentage would be calculated: 342/424=.806(19.4%) fees Before shipping& COGS. so if eBay did 10 billion in sales last year @ average 7% sales tax which they are taxing their fee of "13.5%" is=$700 million x 13.5. or in reality 14.5% minimum= that is $101.5 million profit off of charging a fee incorrectly as an income (when by
law it is not considered revenue EVER). This is not even the people that are below standard which is an extra 6%, which in reality comes out to about 30 to 50% more of the sellers profit being taken out because after shipping and the fees and not even considering the cost of the goods sold that they have to buy to resell their profit drops to 30 to 50% less by adding that 6% for a defect rate of .03% . And yes that is correct that they are seriously charging that much more if you are not meeting a 3% of 1% defect rate on the way they have it structured. That's absurd. 3% of 1% is obscene to charge that much if somebody does not fall in those requirements due to the buyers being unreasonable and illogical. Then having eBay not be on the buyer . Then having eBay not be on the sellers side for obvious reasons because look at the PROFITS that they're cranking out by siding with the buyer. This is a serious ISSUE. Listen I appreciate the platform that we're given through eBay I'm not being ungrateful but this is going to be a bad business move all around if it continues this path because people will not be able to make any money selling on here if something isn't resolved and then what happens is everybody's out instead of working together instead of focusing on greed so that everyone can make money and at least be somewhat satisfied.
03-11-2024 05:02 AM
Yours is about the 10,0001 posting on this same subject. But to address a couple of your statements.
It is only ethical be be transparent and ACCURATE when stating what % of fees is being taken out for sellers. This is provably shown what they state as fees taken out is incorrect .
There is nothing inaccurate about the way eBay states what % of fees they apply to a sale. Following is what the policy states.
"We charge one final value fee when your item sells, and you don't have to worry about third-party payment processing fees. This fee is calculated as a percentage of the total amount of the sale, plus $0.30 per order. The total amount of the sale includes the item price, any handling charges, any shipping costs collected from the buyer (some exceptions apply), sales tax, and any other applicable fees."
The policy, other than the $.30 order processing fee, is standard business process for every credit card company in the application of merchant fees to CC purchases and has been for years.
Which technically is fraud in a couple different aspects. Most importantly have to do the math correctly (which it is not) and use words correctly (like claiming to list am item for free when there is literally a listing fee of .$30 min taken out just to list an item. **
There is a difference between the pre sale insertion fees, which may or may not be free, depending on whether the seller has an allocation of free insertion fees. If they do not, or they have exhausted their free insertions a section at the bottom of each created listing will tell the seller BEFORE they post the listing of any fees that will be charged for the listing.
The order fee of $.30 is post sale and as noted in the earlier response part of the transaction fees.
charging $ is the opposite of FREE btw) to be able to be honest with the sellers who are the life line of this entire platform. the fees taken out on the amount you say the fee is for is being multipled with the tax included. that money is not income or revenue for the seller (and never ever would see that money to be considered part of there revenue. In fact the IRS clearly states that taxes are not to be counted as revenue because they are not for a business or personal seller. But aside from that it's still incorrect the way that they do their math. eBay is incorrectly accounting for this. let me use you example given by eBay, then show the reality of this. If someone sells a 400 dollar item @6% tax (which is a ridiculously low amount for a tax of any state) =424+(.35+.30), so @13.5% seller fee as claimed on $424=$57.24+$.65=$57.89. eBay states it's about 84% margin before shipping. NOT TRUE. tax according to IRS IS NOT revenue sales EVER. so using this in the equation for the fee is unethical & incorrect. $400-57.89=342.11 after fees & before shipping. so not only is 13.5% actually 342/400=.855(14.5% Fees take out of our GROSS EARNINGS)
EBay is NOT claiming the sales tax is revenue to the seller and while the IRS does not consider it revenue/income it is reported on income tax filings but it is also written off as a business liability. What eBay is charging you is in essence a processing fee on the sales tax collected there is nothing unethical or incorrect about that process anymore than it is unethical or incorrect for CC companies to apply the merchant fees to the sales tax on any credit card purchase.
You do realize that eBay pays those merchant fees to the CC company for any purchase you make on eBay using a CC. This charge includes the sales tax. Some small errors in your math. For the $424 dollar total sale amount. The FVF's are calculated EXACTLY as the eBay fee schedule states on the TOTAL amount of the sale. Using your FVF %.
FVF = ($424 * 13.5%) + $.30
FVF = $57.54
FVF % = $57.54/$424
FVF% = 13.5%
* Note: If you are using PL of course these figures change dramatically.
If you are talking about the effective percentage rate then you are correct there is a difference and the calculation would be the items sale price - sales tax or in this case $400 so FVF calculation would be
FVF's = $57.54/400
Effective FVF % = 14.3%
but the correct math percentage would be calculated: 342/424=.806(19.4%) fees Before shipping& COGS. so if eBay did 10 billion in sales last year @ average 7% sales tax which they are taxing their fee of "13.5%" is=$700 million x 13.5. or in reality 14.5% minimum= that is $101.5 million profit off of charging a fee incorrectly as an income (when by law it is not considered revenue EVER). This is not even the people that are below standard which is an extra 6%, which in reality comes out to about 30 to 50% more of the sellers profit being taken out because after shipping and the fees and not even considering the cost of the goods sold that they have to buy to resell their profit drops to 30 to 50% less by adding that 6% for a defect rate of .03% . And yes that is correct that they are seriously charging that much more if you are not meeting a 3% of 1% defect rate on the way they have it structured. That's absurd. 3% of 1% is obscene to charge that much if somebody does not fall in those requirements due to the buyers being unreasonable and illogical. Then having eBay not be on the buyer . Then having eBay not be on the sellers side for obvious reasons because look at the PROFITS that they're cranking out by siding with the buyer. This is a serious ISSUE. Listen I appreciate the platform that we're given through eBay I'm not being ungrateful but this is going to be a bad business move all around if it continues this path because people will not be able to make any money selling on here if something isn't resolved and then what happens is everybody's out instead of working together instead of focusing on greed so that everyone can make money and at least be somewhat satisfied.
Like any business eBay exists to make a profit and maximize the profit of their shareholders. Like any business if they are unable to remain competitive in the marketplace they will cease to exists. The FVF on sales tax is small potatoes in the big scheme of things, on the sale of a $100 item in a state with 8% sales tax the FVF on the $8.00 in sales tax amounts to 13.525% * $8.00 or $1.08. If sellers profit margins are that narrow they need to adjust their pricing model. If they cannot sell at a competitive price then there are alternatives but the application of fees to sales tax is almost universal across ALL online platforms/venues.
03-11-2024 06:41 AM
Apart from ethics Chat GPT can be your friend when writing such a lengthy paragraph.
03-11-2024 08:21 PM
Do you enjoy being wrong or is it just a typical thing at this point in your life? Do you work for them it seems like you do or you're pushing some agenda obviously because in God's name why would you ever defend their incorrect fees. I'm using their example first of all so I'm basing it off of what they used for an example if you would open up your eyes in read correctly. But it seems to be a pattern of incorrectness I'm catching on with your statements. You don't understand how math works obviously and you don't understand how words work. So you can't claim that the listing is free when they are charging a fee. Do you understand this? Or is that too much for you to handle? Secondly when you state that it's 13.5 for the example given as I stated but the math doesn't show it being 13.5 as I showed you clearly. But it's kind of pointless to debate somebody who is not capable of understanding how numbers work and the reality of the situation. It does baffle me though and it's pretty suspicious that you were defending them you must like paying over the amount tax and fees of any other corporation or platform. Who knows why you would want that and defend them in that situation but there are a lot of Karen's out there and obviously we know you're right there with them.
03-11-2024 08:29 PM
Honestly it's painful to even read this because what else would you consider their fees being based off of it's the total amount of revenue that is generated. That includes the tax they are including tax as revenue when they charge you a fee. There's no other category you can put it in as far as how they do the taxation of the fee. It is total revenue generated but it's not in reality. But they are considering it as the gross revenue brought in. Like I said it's not even worth discussing somebody who honestly tries to make that claim when it is right in front of your face. Have you even taken any economics classes or any accounting before? I mean there is so much lack of intelligence when it comes to this subject that you're trying to defend. you have no idea what you're talking about. Your provably incorrect about this. And no every business isn't out to maximize profits just the ones that want to have less customers when the day is done. Read the rest of the comments goof you'll see how many people daily stop selling on here because the fees are not done right. There's no money to be made in most of these situations when it's said and done at the end of the day. You might as well go get a 9:00 to 5:00 or a different side hustle with most of the products being sold because the shipping is so outrageous and they always take the buyer's side. The only niche that they have is there certain items that cannot be sold very well on other platforms and I'll give them that and that is where they get a lot of people that have to stay on here if they want to sell those items. And that's a niche that they deserve to get credit for I agree with that but to gouge people the way that they do you can see the majority of people that are not happy with it. It's very rare to have cupcakes like yourself that think it's okay to do this and that's why the world's going the way it is is because of people that have the mentality like you do. You're obviously pushing an agenda for them or very lonely due to the way that you view the world and corporate America but to each his own so you might as well say what's on your mind while you can before you start defending people that take away our Free speech as well. I can imagine that would be right up your alley as well.
03-11-2024 08:32 PM
The Michigan state sales tax is 6%.
03-11-2024 08:40 PM
Listen - you're like the eleventythousand person to come on here complaining about the same thing. Different people take different angles. Some are SHOUTY, others try to sound lawyerly, some are simply confused, some have very strange political rants (those can actually get enjoyably bizarre) no one ever bothers to do the very brief board search that brings up loads of info about this. We listen patiently, we try to help.
We get called "shills", "eBay employees", rude inferences are made about our intelligence, worthiness as humans, etc.
You're just another one. Explanation upthread - @dbfolks166mt is smart and knowledgeable and more patient than I can believe.
You are welcome.
03-11-2024 08:56 PM
If ebay is so unethical, dishonest, nontransparent, fraudulent, I'm surprised that you'd still have 50 active and 204 completed listings. Why patronize a business you denigrate so?
My guess is that you posted this topic to try to get a reaction and you're relishing in it.
03-11-2024 10:11 PM
03-11-2024 10:15 PM - edited 03-11-2024 10:16 PM
@wholesale_tools_batteries your friend when writing such a lengthy paragraph.
White space and paragraphing are also friends.
Four posts before the inevitable "You disagree with me therefore you work for eBay" post.
Meh.
Average.
03-11-2024 10:19 PM
We want a touchdown!
We want a touchdown!
We're gonna get one!
We're gonna get one!
When Hell freezes over!
When Hell freezes over!
Quit Team Quit!
My high school was low on school spirit.
03-11-2024 11:47 PM
I get it that you are upset, but @dbfolks166mt took a great deal of time going through that wall of text you posted that is no simple task to read and get through. They also offered you some very good information. I realize it doesn't meet with your point of view, but if you take some time to read and digest it, you may see some things you never considered before that would be helpful to you.
Invoking God is really not appropriate. This has nothing to do with anyone's religion. Nor is insulting those that come to help you. You came here for some help and to seek out answers to questions. This would likely go better if you treated everyone with respect, even if you don't agree with them. There is no harm in doing that. We may be able to learn some new stuff from you and you may be able to learn new things from us.
Ebay's fees, whether you agree with them or not are very transparent. They haven't changed much since the Summer of 2020 when they started onboarding all sellers to the Managed Payment program. So the fee structure should not be new to you.
03-11-2024 11:51 PM
"But they are considering it as the gross revenue brought in."
If this is a comment about the 1099K, there is a misunderstanding. 1099Ks have NEVER reported Gross Revenue. They report Gross Receipts. That is the total amount that came into you MP account BEFORE any deductions. So you will need to subtract any refunds you processed to buyers, Ebay fees and shipping fees to arrive at an Adjusted gross income that you then need to subtract all your other costs from like shipping supplies, product costs, etc. To arrive at your Taxable Income amount.
03-12-2024 06:03 AM
Honestly it's painful to even read this because what else would you consider their fees being based off of it's the total amount of revenue that is generated. That includes the tax they are including tax as revenue when they charge you a fee. There's no other category you can put it in as far as how they do the taxation of the fee. It is total revenue generated but it's not in reality. But they are considering it as the gross revenue brought in.
Sorry for your pain. Nowhere in either eBay's or any other entity that charges fees on sales tax is the word "revenue" mentioned. It is the total amount of the sale nothing more. While the sales tax is not part of what is included on your 1099-K eBay, from a corporate perspective treats the sales tax as a "liability" which is also not "revenue" from their perspective or the IRS's but it is funds they have received for which they have a liability to disburse.
Like I said it's not even worth discussing somebody who honestly tries to make that claim when it is right in front of your face. Have you even taken any economics classes or any accounting before? I mean there is so much lack of intelligence when it comes to this subject that you're trying to defend. you have no idea what you're talking about. Your provably incorrect about this. And no every business isn't out to maximize profits just the ones that want to have less customers when the day is done.
Regarding my knowledge I have **bleep** degrees in computer science and mathematics along with a Masters in Business Administration accompanied by a number of certifications from major universities on business and scientific subjects. Those degrees also included courses on business writing and how to utilize paragraphs and punctuation. I worked in various areas of commercial and private business including personal and corporate tax preparation.
My error on stating "every" business is out to maximize profits the statement should read any for profit oriented entity their primary goal is to maximize profits. For publically traded companies that goal is to maximize the companies value to their shareholders. From a simplistic view there are two primary ways to do that. You increase revenues or you reduce costs.
I am by no means defending eBay and if you read some of my other postings on this forum that becomes pretty obvious. There are aspects of eBay that I despise but this topic is not one of them. They are applying the fees just as their policy and fee schedule dictates at least it is disclosed and in writing. To be fair to your buyers why don't you put in your listings what percentage of profit you as a seller are making off of an item and see what your potential buyers reactions are. I am of course assuming you are selling in an attempt to make a profit.
Read the rest of the comments goof you'll see how many people daily stop selling on here because the fees are not done right. There's no money to be made in most of these situations when it's said and done at the end of the day. You might as well go get a 9:00 to 5:00 or a different side hustle with most of the products being sold because the shipping is so outrageous and they always take the buyer's side. The only niche that they have is there certain items that cannot be sold very well on other platforms and I'll give them that and that is where they get a lot of people that have to stay on here if they want to sell those items. And that's a niche that they deserve to get credit for I agree with that but to gouge people the way that they do you can see the majority of people that are not happy with it.
Sellers leave eBay for a variety of reasons and it is not because the "fees are not done right" it is because they are no longer able to make an acceptable profit or ROI and remain competitive in the marketplace. EBay used to be my primary selling platform but due to some factors, fees being one of them, I now only sell about 20% of my items on eBay. The constantly growing list of restricted and prohibited items as well as the VERO program pretty much forced me to seek out other venues.
The risk factor on eBay also curtails me from listing high value or high target items for the scammer community. Those I sell on other forums or venues where the risk is less. I have never found anything that I wanted to sell that I considered a "niche" item that I could only sell on eBay.
It's very rare to have cupcakes like yourself that think it's okay to do this and that's why the world's going the way it is is because of people that have the mentality like you do. You're obviously pushing an agenda for them or very lonely due to the way that you view the world and corporate America but to each his own so you might as well say what's on your mind while you can before you start defending people that take away our Free speech as well. I can imagine that would be right up your alley as well.
I love cupcakes. I have no agenda here but I never discuss politics or religion in any of my posts. I also take a larger look at the world other than just corporate America. It has a direct impact on my own business activities. You may find the following an interesting article.
https://www.coljohnboyd.com/static/documents/1976-09-03__Boyd_John_R__Destruction_and_Creation.pdf
03-12-2024 06:15 AM
"But they are considering it as the gross revenue brought in."
If this is a comment about the 1099K, there is a misunderstanding. 1099Ks have NEVER reported Gross Revenue. They report Gross Receipts. That is the total amount that came into you MP account BEFORE any deductions. So you will need to subtract any refunds you processed to buyers, Ebay fees and shipping fees to arrive at an Adjusted gross income that you then need to subtract all your other costs from like shipping supplies, product costs, etc. To arrive at your Taxable Income amount.
Well stated. I get a number of 1099-K's from various third party financial processors: PayPal, Venmo, Google Pay.... for the sale of other items I have sold on other venues other than eBay. None of them are, as you stated reporting revenue they are simply reporting the total amount of financial transactions processed to me as the account holder. If the OP looks at the 1099-K this should be pretty obvious. This is what it shows.