HELP! with return request

[sandytexas1961]

I just had a return request from someone who I think may have filed SNAD.  As you can see, I responded by showing her that the listing did indeed note the expiration dates.  But is this enough for customer service?  Should I just go ahead and pay for the label and let her return this without any further action, or should I call customer service and explain that while I accept returns, it should be on the buyer's dime, not mine.  Note: my message is first, hers follows. 
Any advice welcome!

Here's what happened

Aug 28

You sent a message

Message

HI, I received your request for a return due to a problem with the item. Here is the exact wording from the listing: Two bottles of Hydroderm Original age-defying wrinkle serum. both sealed. Each is 1 fluid ounce or 30 ml. The bottom of one box is torn. One expired 1/2017. One expired 2/2017. This clearly states that both are expired, so this is not a return for a defective product. I did not deceive you in any way (you can go to the original listing and read this for yourself if you like). I do have a policy that accepts returns for any reason (or no reason at all), but that return policy says that the responsibility of the buyer to pay return postage and to return the product in the same condition in which they were mailed. (sealed). Do you plan to return these items?

Aug 28

The buyer (4everlookn) created a return (5063353551)

Reason for return

Doesn't work or defective

Comments

these items are beyond their expiration date. I did not realize his until I opened the boxes, to put the items in my vanity. Clearly printed by manufacturer, on the bottom of one is exp 0117 and the other exp 0217. Had she posted this information I might have bid, not sure, as there was another bottle for sale by another seller that truthfully noted their hydroderm was expired and there were 0 bids on that item. I would never have paid this price for these had the seller noted that they were expired.

[helpingrescuedogs]

since she mentioned that she considered bidding on one that was expired, perhaps ask if she would be interested in a partial refund. 

[nowthatsjustducky]

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@plumbingspecials wrote:

Accept the return, and when you receive the items, you can report a problem with the buyer for the reason that you do "Not Agree with Buyer's Reason for Return".

This will automatically report the buyer, and you should be able to deduct your return shipping fees, and a restocking fee, if you have your listing set up for it..

But seriously, why would you sell something that is expired? Even if it is stated in the listing, isn't that a bit unethical to sell a product that is of no use?

Neither of you is in the right. 

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That depends on how long it has been since the sale.  The OP has a 14 day return policy meaning they accept returns for any reason whatsoever.  If the return request happened before the 14 days were up, then there is nothing to report.  If it is after 14 days, then they may possibly be able to fight it as a buyers remorse occuring outside the terms of their return policy.  But since the item is past its declared sell by date (very likely still perfectly usable though, but there are already a couple other recent discussions on that), calling CS could put the OP at risk.  Tough choice really; depending on how much $$ we are talking here.

[deep-garnet-red]

I feel like I walked into the Twilight Zone here. 

This is NOT a valid SNAD. Call customer service and have it closed in your favor.

I have no idea what some of these people are thinking. You can win this one. But you have to call. You can't just put a message in the case.

[hidy-hoo]

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@deep-garnet-red wrote:

I feel like I walked into the Twilight Zone here. 

This is NOT a valid SNAD. Call customer service and have it closed in your favor.

I have no idea what some of these people are thinking. You can win this one. But you have to call. You can't just put a message in the case.

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This thread took a left hand turn when castlemagicmemories stated that selling expired cosmetics was against eBay policy and that by calling eBay CS the seller would draw attention to her policy violation...emerald seconded the comment and the thread went downhill from there.  I really wish that responders would include a link to the policy that they are talking about to avoid these situations.

[d-k_treasures]

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@emerald40 wrote:

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@varebelrose wrote:

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@sg51 wrote:

But is this enough for customer service? 

I sell expired film (which is a bit more sellable than expired drugs).

The word Expired goes 

1. in the title

2. in the condition

3. as the first line in the text.

The goal is to make sure your buyer wants expired stuff, because CS isn't going to save you based on some bad news buried down in the text.

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I literally this past weekend sold some expired film (it was clearly identified as such). Some people are looking for that specifically. YMMV.

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Expired film is probably a collector item.  I doubt you could say the same about this product.  It is something you buy to use, not collect.

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Some people use the expired film. But (hopefully) they don't rub it all over their face or body.

[d-k_treasures]

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@hidy-hoo wrote:

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@deep-garnet-red wrote:

I feel like I walked into the Twilight Zone here. 

This is NOT a valid SNAD. Call customer service and have it closed in your favor.

I have no idea what some of these people are thinking. You can win this one. But you have to call. You can't just put a message in the case.

---

This thread took a left hand turn when castlemagicmemories stated that selling expired cosmetics was against eBay policy and that by calling eBay CS the seller would draw attention to her policy violation...emerald seconded the comment and the thread went downhill from there.  I really wish that responders would include a link to the policy that they are talking about to avoid these situations.

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Because I'd bet that if they called CS, regardless of if it's a PV or not, it WILL be one if they get the wrong CS agent.

[emerald40]

https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/productsingredients/products/ucm388826.htm

No, it is from the FDA, link above.

[dtexley3]

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@emerald40 wrote:

Some products are marketed with claims that they will make people look younger. But are these products cosmetics? It depends.

• Products intended to make people more attractive are generally cosmetics. For example, moisturizing is a cosmetic claim. So, if a product is intended to make lines and wrinkles less noticeable, simply by moisturizing the skin, it’s a cosmetic. Similarly, makeup or “primers” intended to make the signs of aging less noticeable just by hiding them are also cosmetics. 
• But, products intended to affect the structure or function of the body, such as the skin, are drugs, or sometimes medical devices, even if they affect the appearance. So, if a product is intended, for example, to remove wrinkles or increase the skin’s production of collagen, it’s a drug or a medical device. 

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Without knowing the exact product, manufacturer, etc I couldn't comment further here.... hehehe.

On a slightly different note, the buyer claimed the item didn't state expired.  How much ya wanna bet they didn't click the stupid, moronic "See Description" button and read the description?  We've all been waiting for INADs (or SNADs) because the description is now "hidden" in mant cases....

[emerald40]

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@hidy-hoo wrote:

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@deep-garnet-red wrote:

I feel like I walked into the Twilight Zone here. 

This is NOT a valid SNAD. Call customer service and have it closed in your favor.

I have no idea what some of these people are thinking. You can win this one. But you have to call. You can't just put a message in the case.

---

This thread took a left hand turn when castlemagicmemories stated that selling expired cosmetics was against eBay policy and that by calling eBay CS the seller would draw attention to her policy violation...emerald seconded the comment and the thread went downhill from there.  I really wish that responders would include a link to the policy that they are talking about to avoid these situations.

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This thread was put on the right course when I pointed out that this product is not a cosmetic but a health product.  And I directed people to the health and product link on ebay.

And then you said I was wrong, but posted nothing to back it up.  So I posted the link to the FDA.   I hope you are not implying I caused this thread to derail.  

[994john]

The best course is to pay the return, or if low money just refund and block.

There are many products that are discontinued that are still good for years past the expiration date.

There is a good market for these products because you just can't get them anymore.

And the alternative new products are not as good, don't have the same colors, don''t work as well,etc..

Sort of like ebay changes. Most of us want the discontinued format.

I think there are certain buyers who have been successful at duping sellers out of these items by using the buyer protection route, and they simply look for more and  do it time and again.

That is why it is wise send a complaint about them to ebay. They may eventually get caught at it.

Please ignore any PC commentary from people about selling expired products.

That type mentality is spawned by a mind like in the picture.

Expired huh?

[kitschy*loot]

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@hidy-hoo wrote:

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@deep-garnet-red wrote:

I feel like I walked into the Twilight Zone here. 

This is NOT a valid SNAD. Call customer service and have it closed in your favor.

I have no idea what some of these people are thinking. You can win this one. But you have to call. You can't just put a message in the case.

---

This thread took a left hand turn when castlemagicmemories stated that selling expired cosmetics was against eBay policy and that by calling eBay CS the seller would draw attention to her policy violation...emerald seconded the comment and the thread went downhill from there.  I really wish that responders would include a link to the policy that they are talking about to avoid these situations.

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The tone of your post comes across like you are very eager to point fingers and name names, in my opinion.

[castlemagicmemories]

@hidy-hoo

No secrets here.  I checked before I posted, to confirm my understanding and recollection.  Also see the Please stop selling expired cosmetics on the Buying Thread.

Simple google search, can you sell expired product on Ebay?

If he doesn't cancel/refund, when you receive the items, you will just have to send back for refund. Are you saying the expiration date was in the listing, and you still bought? Of course not, you cannot clean out the garbage can and sell it on eBay.

[castlemagicmemories]

@kitschy*loot

Thank you!

[emerald40]

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:

@kitschy*loot

Thank you!

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[castlemagicmemories]

What is the shelf life of cosmetics?

There are no regulations or requirements under current United States law that require cosmetic manufacturers to print expiration dates on the labels of cosmetic products. Manufacturers have the responsibility to determine shelf life for products, as part of their responsibility to substantiate product safety. FDA believes that failure to do so may cause a product to be adulterated or misbranded. 

Voluntary shelf-life guidelines developed by the cosmetic industry vary, depending on the product and its intended use.

Consumers should be aware that expiration dates are simply "rules of thumb," and that a product's safety may expire long before the expiration date if the product has not been properly stored.
Sharing makeup increases the risk of contamination. "Testers" commonly found at department store cosmetic counters are even more likely to become contaminated than the same products in an individual's home. If you feel you must test a cosmetic before purchasing it, apply it with a new, unused applicator, such as a fresh cotton swab.

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