GreedBay to raise fees again, when will the insanity end?

[secondlifetreasures-llc]

I've been making this post every January/February for years. eBay raises fees again. Match that with unreasonable rate increases from the post office and looking back just a few years ago, between the rising costs of inventory, shipping, supplies, and fees, you have to sell twice as much to make the same amount of money while executives are rolling in the dough. Anything to appease stockholders who eBay prioritizes over their sellers. If only there was legitimate competition. When eBay first switched from PayPal to Managed Payments, fees were 11.7% & 30 cents. Now they are 12.7% & 40 cents. Just a few more years and fees will be over 20% and it will cost $12 to ship a 4 oz item through USPS. Enjoy the last of it before it is no longer profitable. Buyers won't pay more for your items before your fees are higher. And if eBay ever starts buyer fees like a certain other platform did, we are all doomed.

[chapeau-noir]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

Liz, you think they might be able to come up with a technology to have the ads like flash on my ceiling from some light source from my computer when they run out of space? Just trying to get some humor out of all of this.

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Holograms that will surround the individual using the site on any device. They'll gibber like deranged spirits after the introduction of eBayVoice®️. They will have no sense of personal space or object permanence so will replicate. CEO Jamie will call this Magical®️. Fees go up .45 at spring update.

[cottagehillvanilla]

Hmm, the alternative would be to not list any items, problem solved, just a thought 🤔

[zamo-zuan]

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@mam98031 wrote:

Promoted listings is an OPTIONAL tool that can be used by sellers.  It is a different conversation from required fees such as FVFs and per transaction fees.  You can come up with any argument that you want.  They are not the same thing. 

PL is a separate conversation and much of what you have said is very valid to that conversation.  Something to remember about PL.  Most sellers don't use it.  Imagine the chaos that would be caused if the majority of sellers did!!!  

I know because there is so much clutter on listings due to these ads, it likely seems like more listings are being promoted than actually are.

The numbers you quote above IDK if they are for your own selling account or some other number.  I can't find where those numbers hold up for all the sellers using promoted listings.

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Optional is a different word that was used earlier, I was responding to voluntary, as what eBay is doing directly contradicts the definition of "voluntary" in the cambridge dictionary.

The word "optional" is acceptable an acceptable use in this case, but it's close to borderline. As they are very clear consequences if you do not promote, which does suggest outside influence upon your decision, so it's hard to say it's "completely" optional, but it is technically optional nonetheless. 

In regards to the amount of sellers using promotions, the total number of sellers who promote is misleading. The more important numbers are ones such as :

- What percentage of eBay's SALES are promoted (and not listings).

- What percentage of sellers coming up on the first 10, 50, 100 results are promoted?

The second question is very important. Because as I've shown data supporting in the past, ORGANIC traffic is influenced by promotions as well. So just because a sellers *listing* is not showing up as promoted, doesn't mean their *organic listings* are getting traffic without them investing in promotions. 

The fact that organic traffic is altered at all is quite alarming, and is also why I have a problem saying they're optional. Because organic traffic by definition is NEVER EVER supposed to be altered by promotions. It's "unpaid traffic" by definition. Having to pay for organic traffic is extremely shady and dishonest to sellers, and supports an argument that promotions are much more necessary than they imply.

And yes, those numbers are from our own account. An example to illustrate just how necessary they are for our business:

[mam98031]

I'm aware that some want to make this conversation more complicated than it is by bringing in other, important subjects, but do not affect the basics of what the thread is about.

What you want to discuss is important, I don't disagree with that.  But the OP and others are very upset by the recent FVF increase.  However small it is, it is a big deal for some.  IMHO bringing up other tools that may or may not be used has nothing to do with the basic concern about the FVF increase.

I realize that clearly you don't agree.  That is fine, but it is what I'm speaking to not the importance of one of Ebay's Ad tools.

[zamo-zuan]

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@mam98031 wrote:

I'm aware that some want to make this conversation more complicated than it is by bringing in other, important subjects, but do not affect the basics of what the thread is about.

What you want to discuss is important, I don't disagree with that.  But the OP and others are very upset by the recent FVF increase.  However small it is, it is a big deal for some.  IMHO bringing up other tools that may or may not be used has nothing to do with the basic concern about the FVF increase.

I realize that clearly you don't agree.  That is fine, but it is what I'm speaking to not the importance of one of Ebay's Ad tools.

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Kind of confused by the first paragraph. The thread is about fees, and the conversation had already reached the subject of sellers considering promoted fees being voluntary or not, at which point I chimed in and directly responded to you on that subject (as shown in my initial quote reply) and am still replying on that subject.

Our seller fees are BOTH the FVF's and the ad fees, and the fact that nowadays many sellers fees are approaching 30% in order to even get traffic/sales should be taken as a a legitimate concern on this topic, should it not?

You might not consider the ad changes a fee increase, but many of us do. For reasons I'd already mentioned there's no difference whether it's FVF or the ad practices, either way is increasing the seller fees and are all part of the same subject of fees. There's legitimate dispute as to if sellers are really "forced"  or not when they actually are "paid" for promoting. We can't truthfully say that it fits the literal definition of "voluntary" anymore, shouldn't that shift the discussion?  I'd hope you could understand how calling it "optional" truly diminishes the situation that sellers are in. Because the distinction between "optional" and "voluntary" is extremely important, especially in business. The difference is being "without any form of coercion". The problem with the the fees is lost and diminished as soon as you lose that distinction, which isn't very fair to sellers in that position.

[mam98031]

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

I'm aware that some want to make this conversation more complicated than it is by bringing in other, important subjects, but do not affect the basics of what the thread is about.

What you want to discuss is important, I don't disagree with that.  But the OP and others are very upset by the recent FVF increase.  However small it is, it is a big deal for some.  IMHO bringing up other tools that may or may not be used has nothing to do with the basic concern about the FVF increase.

I realize that clearly you don't agree.  That is fine, but it is what I'm speaking to not the importance of one of Ebay's Ad tools.

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Kind of confused by the first paragraph. The thread is about fees, and the conversation had already reached the subject of sellers considering promoted fees being voluntary or not, at which point I chimed in and directly responded to you on that subject (as shown in my initial quote reply) and am still replying on that subject.

Our seller fees are BOTH the FVF's and the ad fees, and the fact that nowadays many sellers fees are approaching 30% in order to even get traffic/sales should be taken as a a legitimate concern on this topic, should it not?

You might not consider the ad changes a fee increase, but many of us do. For reasons I'd already mentioned there's no difference whether it's FVF or the ad practices, either way is increasing the seller fees and are all part of the same subject of fees. There's legitimate dispute as to if sellers are really "forced"  or not when they actually are "paid" for promoting. We can't truthfully say that it fits the literal definition of "voluntary" anymore, shouldn't that shift the discussion?  I'd hope you could understand how calling it "optional" truly diminishes the situation that sellers are in. Because the distinction between "optional" and "voluntary" is extremely important, especially in business. The difference is being "without any form of coercion". The problem with the the fees is lost and diminished as soon as you lose that distinction, which isn't very fair to sellers in that position.

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Are you saying that other fees were raised in the January Seller Update other than the FVFs?  If there was, then I missed it, my apologies, I'll go back and re-read it.  How did ad fees increase?

I didn't see anything in the update that said anything about ad fees.

https://www.ebay.com/sellercenter/resources/seller-updates/2025-january/final-value-fee

I still see that it was the FVFs that changed and not ad fees, so what did I miss?

[zamo-zuan]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@zamo-zuan wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

I'm aware that some want to make this conversation more complicated than it is by bringing in other, important subjects, but do not affect the basics of what the thread is about.

What you want to discuss is important, I don't disagree with that.  But the OP and others are very upset by the recent FVF increase.  However small it is, it is a big deal for some.  IMHO bringing up other tools that may or may not be used has nothing to do with the basic concern about the FVF increase.

I realize that clearly you don't agree.  That is fine, but it is what I'm speaking to not the importance of one of Ebay's Ad tools.

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Kind of confused by the first paragraph. The thread is about fees, and the conversation had already reached the subject of sellers considering promoted fees being voluntary or not, at which point I chimed in and directly responded to you on that subject (as shown in my initial quote reply) and am still replying on that subject.

Our seller fees are BOTH the FVF's and the ad fees, and the fact that nowadays many sellers fees are approaching 30% in order to even get traffic/sales should be taken as a a legitimate concern on this topic, should it not?

You might not consider the ad changes a fee increase, but many of us do. For reasons I'd already mentioned there's no difference whether it's FVF or the ad practices, either way is increasing the seller fees and are all part of the same subject of fees. There's legitimate dispute as to if sellers are really "forced"  or not when they actually are "paid" for promoting. We can't truthfully say that it fits the literal definition of "voluntary" anymore, shouldn't that shift the discussion?  I'd hope you could understand how calling it "optional" truly diminishes the situation that sellers are in. Because the distinction between "optional" and "voluntary" is extremely important, especially in business. The difference is being "without any form of coercion". The problem with the the fees is lost and diminished as soon as you lose that distinction, which isn't very fair to sellers in that position.

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Are you saying that other fees were raised in the January Seller Update other than the FVFs?  If there was, then I missed it, my apologies, I'll go back and re-read it.  How did ad fees increase?

I didn't see anything in the update that said anything about ad fees.

https://www.ebay.com/sellercenter/resources/seller-updates/2025-january/final-value-fee

I still see that it was the FVFs that changed and not ad fees, so what did I miss?

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Couple things to note...

First... Changes to their ad strategy have been never-ending and are almost never something they publicly announce. That doesn't mean it didn't happen. As mentioned, they admitted on here that they "tested" on us and we had to pay more ad fees than our competitors for ONE YEAR LONGER than everyone else had to. This wasn't in any public announcement either. And except for the one announcement they made since then, they've said nothing, but as I've reported on here their ad requirements have changed drastically since then.

Second...Again, the seller fees are the FVF and ad fees, the fees WERE increased, and I had just stated that the issue was that many sellers are approaching 30% as the problem. As the OP said, buyer's won't by the items if fees are higher, and the reality of the fees is exactly what I just mentioned.

Third, It doesn't seem that anything was "missed", rather my words were instead misrepresented when seeking to find a correlation between the update announcement and ads, focusing on only a single sentence to once again try to diminish the situation, seemingly with the intent of (for the second time in a row) trying to make a claim that my comments are "not on subject", when they are the same exact subject I quoted you mentioning in my first reply to this thread. It's very odd to make that claim. Wouldn't that mean your comment wasn't on subject either? Just because I don't agree with your statement on it doesn't mean I'm "not on subject".

Anyway, the same old song and dance of trying to say things aren't on subject in order to diminish sellers experiences is just tiring.  I've said what I had to say, and since these replies are attempts at downplaying rather than genuine conversation, I don't think anything constructive will come up continuing it, so I'll step back from taking this discussion further. 

[theteamsetguy]

@vintagecraze50 ,

I do buy quite a bit on Teemu and have been very happy with everything I have bought. Quality has been been very good in my opinion and you can't beat the prices. I think they get a bad rap.  Most of the stuff seems to come from warehouses in California.

[bgt_masters_of_tiki_d]

That is something that is not talked about enough. When you charge a percentage based fee structure you technically shouldn't have to keep raising the rates you charge because percentages should be keeping up with the inflation of the goods being sold. 

It would really only make the most sense if the gross total sales has gone down and instead of trimming fat they have to keep the lights on doing something else and they chose to do so by taking more from sellers. This site isn't for everyone and finding other places to sell doesn't work for everyone but if people do have that option it only makes sense to cross list items and utilize multiples sites. 

[mam98031]

Look, I'm backing out of this conversation.  This thread was about the FVF raise in the recent update.  It is ALL I was speaking too.  It isn't more complicated than that.  You want to talk about more than that, which is your right.

I realize you have lots to say and some very good information.  It just wasn't what I was speaking to.  

[mam98031]

@bgt_masters_of_tiki_d 

That is something that is not talked about enough. When you charge a percentage based fee structure you technically shouldn't have to keep raising the rates you charge because percentages should be keeping up with the inflation of the goods being sold.

That sounds good in theory, but in reality simply doesn't happen as often as you seem to think it does.  I have many listings that I have priced the same today as I did a few years back.  Then others the price did go up but mostly not because of Ebay fees but because my vendor had a price increase.  This is usually a combination of things that cause prices to go up.

[vintagecraze50]

Zamo. I totally understand your point here and they are good points to bring up. When sellers are considering selling on ebay they must take into account all the costs of doing business here. Those cost may or may not include ad fees but the entire scheme of things on here HAS to be considered, including costs to advertise, if one chooses to do so. With Liz reporting that approx half of sellers on here are using ads, that says a lot about where this scheme of things is going. It’s exactly what ebay needs to hear on here as well. It means their plan to get this going is working. Good for them, and good for some sellers on here as long as they are smart and know how to use it properly.