eBay

boscobosco12 · ‎02-11-2020

Hello sellers--- In the past, I have not had any problems with buyers that have used freight forwarders. I have a new sale mail. I have packaged and shipped. It was paid through a U. S. paypal account. The buyer has few but very good feedbacks. Buyer has been member since January 21, 2020 in the Russian Federation. I do not sell outside the 48 mainland U. S. and have marked that on ebay and paypal. I am mildly concerned because the good reviews were probably written before the items arrived in Russia and before problems could erupt. Is using a freight forwarder circumventing my sales parameters ? I know that previously using a forwarder negated some buyer rights but I think that has been changed. Any ideas? Thank you.

monster-deals · ‎02-11-2020

@Anonymous wrote:
@pburn wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Hi @pburn, a buyer's registration address is not an indication of if they had an item forwarded. It is not uncommon for buyers who make purchases while travelling internationally to have items delivered to a nearby freight forwarder for in person pickup. Also, members do not always update their registration address, so this is another reason why we are unable to look to the registration address as potential proof of an item being forwarded.

If a seller has concerns about an item being forwarded, they can contact Customer Service to discuss this in more detail and see what options are available.
@Anonymous

Thanks for those examples. Those are all understandable points.

What would be good documentation for a seller to submit to prove an item had been forwarded?

Asking for a friend . . .
Hi @pburn, I wouldn't be able to supply an all encompassing list of what would qualify as proof, but confirmation from the buyer of the item being forwarded, or documentation from the courier would be the most likely pieces of evidence to support that the shipment was forwarded.

Why not simply the address?

papermoneyforme · ‎02-11-2020

@monster-deals wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
@pburn wrote:
@Anonymous wrote:
Hi @pburn, a buyer's registration address is not an indication of if they had an item forwarded. It is not uncommon for buyers who make purchases while travelling internationally to have items delivered to a nearby freight forwarder for in person pickup. Also, members do not always update their registration address, so this is another reason why we are unable to look to the registration address as potential proof of an item being forwarded.

If a seller has concerns about an item being forwarded, they can contact Customer Service to discuss this in more detail and see what options are available.
@Anonymous

Thanks for those examples. Those are all understandable points.

What would be good documentation for a seller to submit to prove an item had been forwarded?

Asking for a friend . . .
Hi @pburn, I wouldn't be able to supply an all encompassing list of what would qualify as proof, but confirmation from the buyer of the item being forwarded, or documentation from the courier would be the most likely pieces of evidence to support that the shipment was forwarded.
Why not simply the address?

So if we can't get a hold of the buyer or he refuses info, we would need a registered letter from the forwarding company confirming what we already knew but Ebay won't believe.

lightlily_arts · ‎02-11-2020

Last year I shipped a brand name handbag to a buyer who used a freight forwarder in Sarasota, Florida. The package had shipping damage. However the pictures she sent me showed it wasn't in the original packaging. When I checked my buyer's profile I found she was located in Saudi Arabia. Therefore, if she wanted to return the item she would have been responsible to pay for the return shipping to the US and within the time frame required by eBay. You are only responsible to provide a return shipping label for the original address. It would have cost my buyer $78 to ship it back and still might not arrive on time. I had to tell her that although her handbag was insured that the insurance was voided because she had it reshipped out of the country. She decided to take it up with the shipping company. If you really want to avoid buyers using freight forwarders the most you can do to block buyers with Non US payment accounts.

boscobosco12 · ‎02-11-2020

Hi Trinton-- You write that confirmation from the forwarder that the item was forwarded might be acceptable proof. Could you please tell me how I can find out who the forwarder is ? I researched the ship to address and there is absolutely nothing that identifies it as a freight forwarder or who the freight forwarder is. There is only a suite number and each purchaser appears to have their own suite number. Anything mailed to the suite appears to go to an individual purchaser. I have contacted the purchaser asking if the address is a freight forwarder and if the item is being forwarded to another country. I doubt if I get a response. Use of a freight forwarder seems to be a slick way of circumventing my decision not to ship anywhere outside the 48 contiguous U. S. I am very disappointed.

a_c_green · ‎02-11-2020

@boscobosco12 wrote:
Use of a freight forwarder seems to be a slick way of circumventing my decision not to ship anywhere outside the 48 contiguous U. S. I am very disappointed.

I don't know if I'd call it a "slick" way, but that is indeed the whole point of a freight forwarder: to handle international shipping of items bought in the host country. Nothing more and nothing less. It's not interfering with your decision to ship only within the contiguous U.S.

boscobosco12 · ‎02-11-2020

-- thanks for all your responses. I just found out the identity of the company at the address. There is a website with numerous postings about the company and ots address. All of the postings are about sellers who were scammed or barely evaded being scammed. They found the site before they shipped. I did not. Many were ebay sellers and found that ebay did not protect them. This is a well known address to ebay. Some of the posters were able to discover that buyers would open new ebay accounts over and over so that they appeared to be different buyers. Some were hacked once their paypal accounts were accessible. I know most foreign buyers are honest. As I originally wrote, I have had very good experiences with them and their use of freight forwarders. However this is a known problem address to ebay. Many of the posts on the other website asked why ebay did not do anything.

pburn · ‎02-11-2020

Keep in mind that, generally speaking, people post only about scams. That could be why you didn't see any posts that said, "Hey! I just shipped a package to a freight forwarder in Delaware, and everything went swimmingly! Really smooth! Just as expected!"

And, if you were reading one of those "eBay Scammer" websites, doesn't it make sense that 100% of the posts about this freight forwarder would be problem transactions?

You do whatever you want. No one else can make any decisions for you. I'm just suggesting you consider the source of your information.

wastingtime101 · ‎02-11-2020

@boscobosco12 wrote:
-- thanks for all your responses. I just found out the identity of the company at the address. There is a website with numerous postings about the company and ots address.

I'm sure if I looked up every freight forwarder I've ever shipped to I would find the exact same thing, yet I've shipped hundreds, if not thousands of packages to forwarders and never had a problem.

The problem generally stems from the buyer, not from the forwarder. The chance of scam from this transaction is the same as any other transaction you ship to a buyer located in the US.

GLORIOUS!

a_c_green · ‎02-11-2020

@boscobosco12 wrote:
-- thanks for all your responses. I just found out the identity of the company at the address. There is a website with numerous postings about the company and its address. All of the postings are about sellers who were scammed or barely evaded being scammed.

You need to put that in context. People who have no problems with a company are not going to go on-line to announce that. Of course there will be complaints posted, but the vast majority of dealings with a reshipper go through just fine. I have been shipping via such companies on a low but steady basis for years.

@boscobosco12 wrote:
Many were ebay sellers and found that ebay did not protect them. This is a well known address to ebay.

While there are a lot of justifiable complaints about how eBay favors buyers over sellers, sometimes to absurd lengths, a reshipper is generally not the source of the problem. A buyer who wants to return something will have to get it back to his reshipper first, because that is where your package was delivered and that is where your return label will originate from. In comparison, had you shipped the item directly to Outer Franistan someplace yourself, you could be required to send the buyer a PayPal payment in order to buy the return postage to you, then hope he actually does so.

@boscobosco12 wrote:
Some of the posters were able to discover that buyers would open new ebay accounts over and over so that they appeared to be different buyers.

That's true of scammers anywhere, regardless of whether a reshipper was used. It's not difficult to set up a new eBay account for any purpose.

@boscobosco12 wrote:
Some were hacked once their paypal accounts were accessible.

A seller's PayPal account is never "accessible" to a buyer regardless of their location, and regardless of whether a forwarding address is used. At most, all you will see of someone else's PayPal account is their payment address, but there is nothing to be "hacked" there unless somehow the seller can be fooled into giving up his account login. Again, this is not related to a freight forwarder in any way.

@boscobosco12 wrote:
As I originally wrote, I have had very good experiences with them and their use of freight forwarders. However this is a known problem address to ebay. Many of the posts on the other website asked why ebay did not do anything.

While it may be a known forwarder address to eBay, it is no more of a "problem" address than any other. A lot of scammers reside offshore, and freight forwarders are simply a way for them to buy from sellers who do not themselves ship out of the country. Sellers who themselves ship internationally are undertaking a greater risk than those who ship via forwarders.

gracieallen01 · ‎02-11-2020

Keep in mind that a freight forwarder who's main objective is to scam, assist with a scam or look the other way during a scam, will not be in business long. Most forwarders have been around for years and have a reasonable reputation.

I believe the problem we are seeing here is that ebay, by using their (questionable?) rationale, is attempting to distance themselves from any responsibility, what-so-ever, of having to take any type of action that might cost them money and that can not be handled by a 'bot, with one-size-fits-all programming, to remedy whatever situation may arise.

A major aspect of that problem is that when scammers see the possibilities, there could be a much better than average chance that they would flock to the site for a feeding frenzy.

Not saying 'NO' doesn't mean 'YES'.

The foolishness of one's actions or words is determined by the number of witnesses.

Perhaps if Brains were described as an APP, many people would use them more often.

Respect, like money, is only of 'worth' when it is earned - with all due respect, it can not be ordained, legislated or coerced. Anonymous

linus.hux72fe · ‎02-12-2020

With all due respect, this is an unworkable response from a company (Ebay) that is doing nothing but shifting an impossible responsibility to the seller so Ebay has yet another loophole with which to duck through.

I tried your suggestion with a package going through a freight forwarder.

1. Spent 40 minutes to find the phone number for the forwarder and get the correct office and a person to answer questions.

2. Called forwarder to get confirmation that package was going through them.

3. Forwarder responded that they would give out no information since I am not the person they contracted with. Further, they will not put anything in writing for Ebay as to whether or not they received the package.

4. Contacted the purchaser asking if package was to be shipped through a freight forwarder to get to X country listed as where buyer is registered. They responded, "dont worry about it, not your issue." So wouldn't confirm or deny. (Why not confirm?, I'd guess because too many sellers cancel orders to freight forwarders based on scam posts because Ebay doesnt support the seller and doesn't communicate and doesn't stop creating loopholes.

Triton, with all due respect, your answer shifting responsibility to the seller to prove a package mailed to a freight forwarder was or was not actually forwarded in order to receive protections is unworkable because the seller is not able to obtain or in control of that information.

Why is the buyer not responsible for providing documentation in the very slim possibility that they are an employee of the freight forwarder or that they picked up the package at the freight forwarder? All readily and easily available to the buyer. And let's be honest, these 2 examples are very few cases of the total number of packages shipped to known freight forwarders.

So once again the seller is left with no protection from Ebay potentially. Yet, its Ebay that "encourages" sellers to ship outside the US, and in my opinion, a worldwide audience for my items is one of the things I'm paying Ebay to provide with my fees. You see, I can use any number of other sites and platforms, many cheaper or no cost, to sell my items throughout the US. Ebay seems to not realize they are no longer the only game in town. Yes, Ebay has a large audience but the other sites I use charge less, are growing rapidly, and are not placing unworkable rules on me for the "privilege" of selling outside the US. Neither is it a goal of mine nor a necessity to ship globally. It's just an added bonus that I pay for on Ebay with my fees.

A solution that is not possible or not workable is not a solution/answer. This doesn't seem to be a well thought out plan.

So, back to my package, yes I shipped it. But if there is a problem, how can I prove to Ebays new satisfaction that it was reshipped? At least be forthright, and acknowledge that I probably can't. At least, that's my understanding of your explanation.

marinermikes · ‎02-12-2020

First eBay has no part in Pay Pals rulings. Second, Just proving the address is a frieght forward company is not good enough. I honestly don't think even if some how you had the tracking number from being forward would be enough!

Been there done that. Basically your on the hook for one hundred eighty days.

ittybitnot · ‎02-12-2020

Triton, with all due respect, your answer shifting responsibility to the seller to prove a package mailed to a freight forwarder was or was not actually forwarded in order to receive protections is unworkable because the seller is not able to obtain or in control of that information.

Basically, it is "unworkable" for the seller. For ebay it is likely 'working as intended'.

monster-deals · ‎02-12-2020

@papermoneyforme wrote:
So if we can't get a hold of the buyer or he refuses info, we would need a registered letter from the forwarding company confirming what we already knew but Ebay won't believe.

Another tweak of ebay policy rendering it completely useless to protect a seller.

How many more useless seller protections do we need?

marinermikes · ‎02-12-2020

Unfortunately this is the way it has been. Your responsibility does not end when delivered to the frieght forward company. These kind of cases end up with Pay Pal. EBay's thirty day policy usually has expired by the time your item goes abroad and if there's a problem it ends up a Pay Pal snad. Even if it filed with eBay and they lose it can be filed again with Pay Pal.

Here's the problem I have with it. Yes they do have to return the item.

Freight forward sends your item abroad.

Buyer receives and item is damaged during shipping.

They send it back to the forward company.

A Pay Pal snad is filed and you have no way to prove that it was sent abroad and no, showing the address you shipped it to is a frieght forward company is not good enough. You are going to lose!

A Pay Pal case can be filed within one hundred and eighty days.

Pay Pal gives ten days after the case is decided to get it back to you.

You receive a busted piece of junk back and are out the money too!

Basically they are using your sellers account as a insurance policy all the way to where ever it's going. Not much of a problem for cheaper items but for more expensive items it is a problem. I used to sell clocks here. USA only! Not! You have no control over this. My clocks were never meant to be shipped abroad. After a couple of these transactions I stopped selling clocks here.