Freight Forwarding scam still alive

[trades41]

Recently listed an item which specified will only ship to USA.  Figured that would be enough to dissuade international bidders, but that was not to be.  So, I closed the international gateway.  

Low and behold, a bidder from China comes along with a US shipping address in the final minutes and bids.  I did cancel the bids, but didn't block, and he bid again and won the auction.

OK, it's a liitle fishy to be a member in China with a US shipping address, but it happens,  so I figured I'd check it out.  Ebay said the address was confirmed.  Yet, an internet search revealed the address to be a freight forwarder, that has been red flagged for fraud by ebay and Paypal members (70 McCullough Dr, New Castle, DE 19720). 

This just isn't a risk I'm willing to take.  I informed the buyer, canceled the transaction, and blocked him from future transactions.  The buyer then contacts me to say he lives in Oregon 🙂   

From China, to a freight forwarder in DE as his shipping address,  to an OR address that isn't part of his profile.  Yeah, that's a bridge too far.  

[tradingkmm]

That isn't true. If the buyer in China files a chargeback for item not as described PayPal will reverse the transaction plus charge a $20 dollars fee to the seller.

[tradingkmm]

I did block on PP buyers without US account and still they sneak into the system and purchase items from my eBay site.

[tradingkmm]

I rather take a negative feedback than loosing an item to a scammer.

[tradingkmm]

Your liability as a seller DOES NOT end with the domestic delivery of your item. PayPal on the other end in conjunction with the Credit Card used for the transaction will hit you with a chargeback, I cite from PP page: "Reversals-Please be aware that this payment can still be reversed (e.g. if it is subject to a chargeback), EVEN AFTER you have sent the item(s) to your buyer."

[mam98031]

---

@tradingkmm wrote:
That isn't true. If the buyer in China files a chargeback for item not as described PayPal will reverse the transaction plus charge a $20 dollars fee to the seller.

---

What I said is and was true.  You are talking about a different type of claim which wasn't being discussed.  So don't snap to a conclusion when you've changed the details of what was being discussed.

Without particulars on the situation it would be difficult to comment on if it was a winnable chargeback in PP.  I am however sorry it happened to you.

[mam98031]

---

@tradingkmm wrote:
I did block on PP buyers without US account and still they sneak into the system and purchase items from my eBay site.

---

This is partially inaccurate.  International buyers with US ship to addresses do NOT "SNEAK into the system".  They are allowed to.  They are NOT breaching any Ebay rule.  You have no ability to block this type of transaction in Ebay.  Your buyer is operating within the rules of Ebay.  

[robot-hands]

---

@tradingkmm wrote:
I did block on PP buyers without US account and still they sneak into the system and purchase items from my eBay site.

---

Then they just use the forwarder's account.

What is it you are terrified of again?

[myangelandmyprincess]

---

@tradingkmm wrote:
That isn't true. If the buyer in China files a chargeback for item not as described PayPal will reverse the transaction plus charge a $20 dollars fee to the seller.

---

This is the case for any transaction where the buyer pays with a cc.  Doesn't matter if it was forwarded or not it's a risk in all of them 

[marinermikes]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

Shipping to a freight forwarder is not an issue for a seller.  I'm unsure why you feel it is.  As a seller you are responsible to ship the item to the ship to address on the order.  It does not matter if the buyer has some other address that is NOT on your payment notification.  You are ONLY responsible to the location on your payment notification.

Once the Freight Forwarder reships the item to the international buyer, the buyer's MBG protection is voided.  You are NOT responsible for the item anymore.  So if when it arrives it is damaged, the buyer can go back on the Freight Forwarder, but not on you.

Or is there something else about the transaction that gives you pause?  What concerns do you have about shipping to a Freight forwarder?  I ship to them all the time.

---

That is until it gets shipped overseas and gets broken or destroyed on the way and the freight forward company files a snad with pay pal. You will loose that case because you can not prove that it was shipped abroad.  With no overseas tracking number you can not prove it. Even if you prove to pay enemy that the address you shipped it to is a frieght forward company with out the overseas tracking number you loose.

Like the poster below has said. If it's a clock which is exactly what happened to me, it was never meant to be shipped abroad.

The scam is that you now are on the hook for getting the item to what ever foreign country it's going to safely.

In my case the clock came back to me totally ruined one hundred and ninety five days after the sale.

I sold hundreds of clocks on this site but that was the very last one that I will ever list here.

I understand that most frieght forward companies are legit but the ease in which I was relieved of my money and basically my clock too was very disturbing. Bad guys will always find a way to beat the system.  Who eBay and Pay Pal back up is the real question. Like the saying goes, if you can't afford to loose it don't list it here.

[mam98031]

@marinermikes 

That is until it gets shipped overseas and gets broken or destroyed on the way and the freight forward company files a snad with pay pal.

The freight forwarder has no right or ability to open a claim of any kind against you.  ONLY the buyer does.  So no worries about this.

You will loose that case because you can not prove that it was shipped abroad.  With no overseas tracking number you can not prove it. Even if you prove to pay enemy that the address you shipped it to is a frieght forward company with out the overseas tracking number you loose.

This has not been my experience, I'm sorry that it has been yours.  FYI if the claim was or is filed in PP, PP doesn't require the seller to pay for return shipping.  So your buyer would need to pay.

The scam is that you now are on the hook for getting the item to what ever foreign country it's going to safely.

In my case the clock came back to me totally ruined one hundred and ninety five days after the sale.

I'm unsure as to why Ebay would allow a claim to stay open that long without resolution.  

I am sorry you have had such a tough time with this transaction and that it turned out so badly for you.

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@joem4stuff wrote:

---

@calntom wrote:
you can block users that have non-US PayPal accounts and that will cut out a lot of the buyers that use the freight forwarders.

---

That would only block them from using paypal to pay; they can still pay with a credit card at checkout, no paypal account required.

---

Guest buyer.

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@marinermikes wrote:

---

@mam98031 wrote:

Shipping to a freight forwarder is not an issue for a seller.  I'm unsure why you feel it is.  As a seller you are responsible to ship the item to the ship to address on the order.  It does not matter if the buyer has some other address that is NOT on your payment notification.  You are ONLY responsible to the location on your payment notification.

Once the Freight Forwarder reships the item to the international buyer, the buyer's MBG protection is voided.  You are NOT responsible for the item anymore.  So if when it arrives it is damaged, the buyer can go back on the Freight Forwarder, but not on you.

Or is there something else about the transaction that gives you pause?  What concerns do you have about shipping to a Freight forwarder?  I ship to them all the time.

---

That is until it gets shipped overseas and gets broken or destroyed on the way and the freight forward company files a snad with pay pal. You will loose that case because you can not prove that it was shipped abroad.  With no overseas tracking number you can not prove it. Even if you prove to pay enemy that the address you shipped it to is a frieght forward company with out the overseas tracking number you loose.

Like the poster below has said. If it's a clock which is exactly what happened to me, it was never meant to be shipped abroad.

The scam is that you now are on the hook for getting the item to what ever foreign country it's going to safely.

In my case the clock came back to me totally ruined one hundred and ninety five days after the sale.

I sold hundreds of clocks on this site but that was the very last one that I will ever list here.

I understand that most frieght forward companies are legit but the ease in which I was relieved of my money and basically my clock too was very disturbing. Bad guys will always find a way to beat the system.  Who eBay and Pay Pal back up is the real question. Like the saying goes, if you can't afford to loose it don't list it here.

---

I'm so sorry that happened to you and I can see why you won't list those here anymore.  You know the old saying, it's always good, until it isn't.

[marinermikes]

---

@mam98031 wrote:

@marinermikes 

That is until it gets shipped overseas and gets broken or destroyed on the way and the freight forward company files a snad with pay pal.

The freight forwarder has no right or ability to open a claim of any kind against you.  ONLY the buyer does.  So no worries about this.

You will loose that case because you can not prove that it was shipped abroad.  With no overseas tracking number you can not prove it. Even if you prove to pay enemy that the address you shipped it to is a frieght forward company with out the overseas tracking number you loose.

This has not been my experience, I'm sorry that it has been yours.  FYI if the claim was or is filed in PP, PP doesn't require the seller to pay for return shipping.  So your buyer would need to pay.

The scam is that you now are on the hook for getting the item to what ever foreign country it's going to safely.

In my case the clock came back to me totally ruined one hundred and ninety five days after the sale.

I'm unsure as to why Ebay would allow a claim to stay open that long without resolution.  

I am sorry you have had such a tough time with this transaction and that it turned out so badly for you.

---

Nothing to do with eBay. They file a INR with eBay and lost because of the time.  They then filed a snad with Pay Pal on day one hundred and seventy six.  They then beat the time line for printing a return label which is ten days by waiting the ten days, printing a label and then waiting another nine days to get it to the carrier.  Plenty of time to get it back from Korea.

The buyer bought the item through the frieght forward company.  Maybe like some one said guest buyer.  This frieght company has multiple EBay user accounts.  Pages of bad reviews on goggle with this outfit for the same thing.  I showed all of this to pay Pal including a foreign post mark. The rep told me they never look at google info and that the post mark could be from another shipment that the box was used for!

Yea they had to put it back on the boat and send it back. The frieght company bit the bullet on that most likely but that does me little good when I'm out the price of the clock, shipping one way and the clock was ruined.

[fashunu4eeuh]

---

@tradingkmm wrote:
Your liability as a seller DOES NOT end with the domestic delivery of your item. PayPal on the other end in conjunction with the Credit Card used for the transaction will hit you with a chargeback, I cite from PP page: "Reversals-Please be aware that this payment can still be reversed (e.g. if it is subject to a chargeback), EVEN AFTER you have sent the item(s) to your buyer."

---

Hi, i’m not clear as to why you are responding to information i gave to another member in July of last year. The info i provided is correct, but you have taken it out of context and apparently applied it to an entirely different set of circumstances. My advice has nothing to do with chargebacks. It can be very confusing to posters to resurrect an old thread. I recommend you begin a new thread where other members can address your specific concern.

[myangelandmyprincess]

---

@marinermikes wrote:

---

@mam98031 wrote:

@marinermikes 

That is until it gets shipped overseas and gets broken or destroyed on the way and the freight forward company files a snad with pay pal.

The freight forwarder has no right or ability to open a claim of any kind against you.  ONLY the buyer does.  So no worries about this.

You will loose that case because you can not prove that it was shipped abroad.  With no overseas tracking number you can not prove it. Even if you prove to pay enemy that the address you shipped it to is a frieght forward company with out the overseas tracking number you loose.

This has not been my experience, I'm sorry that it has been yours.  FYI if the claim was or is filed in PP, PP doesn't require the seller to pay for return shipping.  So your buyer would need to pay.

The scam is that you now are on the hook for getting the item to what ever foreign country it's going to safely.

In my case the clock came back to me totally ruined one hundred and ninety five days after the sale.

I'm unsure as to why Ebay would allow a claim to stay open that long without resolution.  

I am sorry you have had such a tough time with this transaction and that it turned out so badly for you.

---

Nothing to do with eBay. They file a INR with eBay and lost because of the time.  They then filed a snad with Pay Pal on day one hundred and seventy six.  They then beat the time line for printing a return label which is ten days by waiting the ten days, printing a label and then waiting another nine days to get it to the carrier.  Plenty of time to get it back from Korea.

The buyer bought the item through the frieght forward company.  Maybe like some one said guest buyer.  This frieght company has multiple EBay user accounts.  Pages of bad reviews on goggle with this outfit for the same thing.  I showed all of this to pay Pal including a foreign post mark. The rep told me they never look at google info and that the post mark could be from another shipment that the box was used for!

Yea they had to put it back on the boat and send it back. The frieght company bit the bullet on that most likely but that does me little good when I'm out the price of the clock, shipping one way and the clock was ruined.

---

In most freight forwarder cases the freight forwarder is not the buyer.   It’s not a forwarder with multiple accounts.  It’s foreign buyers using their accounts and having it shipped to the freight forwarder who then ships it to the buyer.  The buyer would have had to pay shipping cost back to you with a service that includes tracking.  In many cases mailing it back isn’t worth that cost