Freight Forwarders

[katzrul15]

Have an order this morning, same buyer as claim (same name), Russian Federation.  New/different freight-forwarder address in Oregon.

I BBL'd the prior ID.  Lost $230 + shipping/fees on that chargeback of unrecognized charge filed as soon as delivered to freight forwarder.

Can we cancel this order if they are circumventing our BBL?  (No choice for that)

Can we cancel for use of a freight-forwarder? 

Where does it define exactly what "problem with Buyer's address mean" in the e-Bay written rules, protocols? 

This is a $90 lego set.  I do not wish to ship.  Is it possible? 

I have sent a message on facebook for biz.  Thx. I have 1 day handling, so needs to ship by tomorrow.   

[whattheactualfox]

Im going to feel so bad to be "that guy" but here I go:

So I saw that the CC chargeback was favored in the buyer, so there is realistically nothing that can be done at that point. Ebay will consider the case resolved and charge you for a "CC Dispute Fee"

Where does it define exactly what "problem with Buyer's address mean" in the e-Bay written rules, protocols? 

Now I would assume "problem with Buyer's address" is a free thinking term. The reason could apply to different situations. I didn't see anything set in stone that restricts how you can use the reason.

Can we cancel for use of a freight-forwarder?

I don't think there would be a reason why you could not. As long as you message the buyer explaining the cancelation reason, and if they were to report you. Ebay knows you canceled for a reason on that matter.

Can we cancel this order if they are circumventing our BBL?  (No choice for that)

I don't see a reason why you can't 😛

[bigdeals.etc]

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@whattheactualfox wrote:

Im going to feel so bad to be "that guy" but here I go:

So I saw that the CC chargeback was favored in the buyer, so there is realistically nothing that can be done at that point. Ebay will consider the case resolved and charge you for a "CC Dispute Fee"

Where does it define exactly what "problem with Buyer's address mean" in the e-Bay written rules, protocols? 

Now I would assume "problem with Buyer's address" is a free thinking term. The reason could apply to different situations. I didn't see anything set in stone that restricts how you can use the reason.

Can we cancel for use of a freight-forwarder?

I don't think there would be a reason why you could not. As long as you message the buyer explaining the cancelation reason, and if they were to report you. Ebay knows you canceled for a reason on that matter.

Can we cancel this order if they are circumventing our BBL?  (No choice for that)

I don't see a reason why you can't 😛

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I agree with you with those three answers. I don't necessarily practice it, but I agree with the reasoning. Haven't read the replies or consensus of this thread yet... so if you're going to string me up too, have at it.

[eleanor*rigby]

It discourages me, as both a buyer and a seller, to see so many sellers willing to violate eBay policy, when I've seen at least some of them vociferously excoriate buyers who do. To paraphrase an adage, "what's good for the buyer is good for the seller."

It will be interesting to follow which of these sellers pop up on future threads complaining about a buyer violating an eBay policy . . .

[coffeebean832]

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@katzrul15 wrote:

Can we cancel this order if they are circumventing our BBL?  (No choice for that)

Yes. You have two options. One is to use OOS and get the defect removed. That's kind of a pain. The other is to cancel citing problem with buyer's address. Trinton and other blues have said in the past that this is an acceptable option, that it's sort of a catch-all no-fault cancellation reason.

Can we cancel for use of a freight-forwarder? 

Not if you're going along with eBay policy.

Where does it define exactly what "problem with Buyer's address mean" in the e-Bay written rules, protocols? 

It doesn't.

This is a $90 lego set.  I do not wish to ship.  Is it possible? 

Yes. Cancel it.

I have sent a message on facebook for biz.  Thx. I have 1 day handling, so needs to ship by tomorrow.   

FaceBook team will probably tell you to cancel as OOS and they'll remove the defect and any resulting FB. But if you tell them you'd prefer to cancel using the address reason because it's less hassle, they'll tell you that's also a valid option. I just dealt with them on this a couple days ago. The only reason I reached out to FB CS is because I wanted to report the IDs- and there's no report option within the site report settings for BBL circumvention so- for the time being- you need to contact CS so they can file the reports.

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[farmalljr]

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@eleanor*rigby wrote:

It discourages me, as both a buyer and a seller, to see so many sellers willing to violate eBay policy, when I've seen at least some of them vociferously excoriate buyers who do. To paraphrase an adage, "what's good for the buyer is good for the seller."

It will be interesting to follow which of these sellers pop up on future threads complaining about a buyer violating an eBay policy . . .

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What I would find interesting, is you putting your money where your mouth is. You seem REALLY concerned because a seller does NOT want to get scammed. If a seller cancels a sale, the buyer is out NOTHING, they get a refund.

If a seller proceeds with a sale they don't want to make, they are LIKELY to get scammed. 

Instead of you playing off, that you have some kind of "moral high ground", put up or shut up. Open your wallet and start paying these sellers who are getting scammed by foreign buyers. Otherwise, your bloviation is nothing but mindless lip flapping. 

There is NO moral high ground when eBay can't be bothered to follow it's own policies when it suits them. There are many instances where eBay has deviated from it's own written policy.  IF you want to claim agreement and "rules", it takes BOTH sides holding that agreement. 

[duffy4444]

   Hi Katz,

   I see you've been put between a rock and a hard place. All I can do is tell you how I respond to sneaky international buyers who go in thru eBay's back door by using a FF in an attempt to get my items sent to a country I refuse to ship to. (That's the sneaky part of it, which raises the hackles on my neck every time I have to confront it.)

   It may be a scam, or maybe not - but following thru with it opens up a potential can of worms that spills over a LOT into this forum and the shipping and returns forums as heartbreaking complaints of losses of sometimes thousands of dollars on a forced refund that should never have happened.

   On every sale that comes in, I take a few seconds and click on the buyer's feedback number to reveal the buyer's actual location. If it is a country I have already told eBay that I don't ship to in my exclusions preferences, and the address is in the US, it is a freight forwarder. That's when things quite often fall apart, and the door to potential scams is flung open much wider.

   Many sellers usually cancel and refund the sale using "problem with buyer's address". Then they can send a pleasant message to the buyer explaining that they don't ship to their country as the final destination.

   It is my firm belief that until eBay gets its head out of a very dark place and starts using common sense with seller protections, sellers are the owners of their merchandise and have the moral right to not ship to a FF.

   It's your decision and your money, not eBay's, as to whether take the risk of losing a $90 Lego set, and possibly your payment as well, because you are already on record in your shipping exclusions at eBay as not shipping to certain places in the world. Period.

Cheers, Duffy

[duffy4444]

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@farmalljr wrote:

There is NO moral high ground when eBay can't be bothered to follow it's own policies when it suits them. There are many instances where eBay has deviated from it's own written policy.  IF you want to claim agreement and "rules", it takes BOTH sides holding that agreement.

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   Right on!

   1.  A seller adds "Russia", for instance, to their list of excluded countries they don't ship to.

   2.  A buyer from Russia circumvents that by using a FF in the US.

   3.  Ebay says the seller MUST ship the item, even though (with luck) it will eventually end up in Russia?

      THAT'S A DOUBLE STANDARD, and eBay argues with its own policies and procedures.

[katzrul15]

Still awaiting a reply from CS - has to ship in the morning, unfortunately to be compliant with handling time.  Frustrating.

[katzrul15]

Finally had CS call on this, as we had not received an email reply.

Spoke with 2 different individuals and received approx 3 answers.

Thanks to everyone who replied - did not mean for this to turn into a debate about morals or ethics.  I cannot find anywhere this it is "defined" as to what "problem with buyers address" means or the parameters/intent.  I can see BOTH sides to this, so am trying to do what is best for us as a Seller and also work within the parameters given to us.  Impossible to do, but just my opinion.  To me it is not as clear-cut, but I do respect why some feel that way, etc.  

We cancelled this order today, reported the Buyer thru CS and thru the transaction before cancelling for circumventing our BBL.  

While I really wanted the sale, I did not want another hassle with this Buyer.  I was told today if the Buyer leaves a red donut to re-engage with CS to address.

I do think for the amount of angst this topic creates that it would be prudent for e-Bay to clarify (in writing) how best for a Seller to proceed or allow a mechanism to preclude the sales not wanted.  If it is this frustrating for us as Sellers, imagine how CS feels.  The 2nd person I spoke with (1st CS transferred me after talking to his Supv) indicated they get a lot of these inquiries.  They downplayed any uptick in CC chargebacks and in fact, told me they think they are down.  So the message is, they are down - spread the word.  

[farmalljr]

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@katzrul15 wrote:

Finally had CS call on this, as we had not received an email reply.

Spoke with 2 different individuals and received approx 3 answers.

Thanks to everyone who replied - did not mean for this to turn into a debate about morals or ethics.  I cannot find anywhere this it is "defined" as to what "problem with buyers address" means or the parameters/intent.  I can see BOTH sides to this, so am trying to do what is best for us as a Seller and also work within the parameters given to us.  Impossible to do, but just my opinion.  To me it is not as clear-cut, but I do respect why some feel that way, etc.  

We cancelled this order today, reported the Buyer thru CS and thru the transaction before cancelling for circumventing our BBL.  

While I really wanted the sale, I did not want another hassle with this Buyer.  I was told today if the Buyer leaves a red donut to re-engage with CS to address.

I do think for the amount of angst this topic creates that it would be prudent for e-Bay to clarify (in writing) how best for a Seller to proceed or allow a mechanism to preclude the sales not wanted.  If it is this frustrating for us as Sellers, imagine how CS feels.  The 2nd person I spoke with (1st CS transferred me after talking to his Supv) indicated they get a lot of these inquiries.  They downplayed any uptick in CC chargebacks and in fact, told me they think they are down.  So the message is, they are down - spread the word.  

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LOL! Down? Haha. They probably meant eBay is "down with them" as in approves of. Too many seller coming here complaining about charge backs to even possibly believe that. 

If you are comfortable with what you had to do, that's what is important. Like I said before, I don't mind shipping internationally, low dollar items. I'm not shipping something internationally 50+ dollars with much weight at all to it. 1# to Canada I think is around 15 bucks eBay standard international. Other countries are more. GSP is even more. My first Canadian sale a couple years ago, was a scammer. Even though the total was only 50 bucks with shipping, it left a sour taste in my mouth. I don't do anything that costs more than a meal out, internationally anymore. 

If I had the Legos, I would not have shipped international either. Sealed sets tend to be pricey and collectable, so they likely will attract scammers too, like other items. 

Glad you got it figured out though. We all would like to have boosts in sales, and international shipping SEEMS like a good way on the surface. That is until you have been scammed a time or three. The holidays are coming, so don't fret too much. I'm sure they will be sold soon enough. 

[wpt05]

@katzrul15 

Report an issue with a buyer | eBay

Report a buyer (ebay.com)

Abusive buyer policy | eBay

"Unwelcome and malicious buying: We consider bidding on or buying an item when you have no intention of completing the transaction, or circumventing a seller's buyer requirements, to be unwelcome and malicious buying." 

Violation of the eBay User Agreement policy | eBay

"Members must not create additional accounts to circumvent selling restrictions, buying limits, suspension, or to manipulate any site feature"  

[dbfolks166mt]

     To properly paraphrase the blues canceling an order due to problem with the buyers address simply because the buyer uses a freight forwarder is not sufficient reason for cancelation in and of itself. If your listings state you do not sell or ship internationally or do not sell to certain countries this is where the "in and of itself" comes into play. There are now two factors in play and if you do not sell internationally, or to certain countries, then canceling an order due to a problem with the buyers address should not be an issue according to the current policies. 

     However if you do sell internationally and are not blocking any countries then according to the eBay policy you should ship the item regardless of the fact that it is going through a freight forwarder. 

[dbfolks166mt]

     How was the listing setup? Did it indicate you sell internationally and if you do do you have exempt countries that you will not sell to? If so and Russia is one of them contact the buyer and let them know that your listing stated you do not sell to Russia and you are canceling the order. Then simply cancel as a problem with the buyers address. 

     Maybe they will get the message and quit trying to circumvent the country blocks you have setup in your listings. 

[katzrul15]

@dbfolks166mt 

The listing was set up for US, lower 48 only, no PO Boxes, No Alaska, No Hawaii, No US Territories, etc etc

I do ship some items (lighter weight) to Canada and Australia only.  Very limited these days.  

The CS person who worked with me to report the Buyer told me I could cancel the order for circumventing my BBL, etc.  They also said I could do it based on the address issue, etc.  When I reported the Buyer, I only stated it was cancelled due to BBL circumvention and referenced the prior order and claim, etc.