Fraudulent buyer UPDATE

[shoppingisfun.x]

So eBay has completely let me down.

A rundown, eBay refunded the buyer on December 26th when I opened my last thread where my PayPal went negative. My appeal was denied despite sufficient evidence and even a police report against the buyer. 

A couple days ago the buyer opened another case on PAYPAL and then last night ebay DEBITED ME AGAIN(!!)??! To refund the buyer. 

basically the buyer got two refunds and now wants a third one.

Original transaction refunded on December 26th caused my paypal account to go negative 

 
chargeback from buyer filed on saturday

and a refund to the buyer (again) from eBay last night

AND to top it all off now eBay is telling me I can’t sell anything anymore. Even though the buyer was the one trying to scam me. Now the buyer has TWO REFUNDS

AND MY BAG

and obviously they got greedy and wanted a third one from PayPal. Yet I am the one who is being punished unfairly. I have NEVER had any case opened against me (or even opened any kind of case against someone) in 10 years of buying and occasionally selling on eBay. 

So I basically lost nearly $8000 and a $6000 bag. 

I called PayPal and they told me it’s an eBay problem, I called eBay and they told me it’s a PayPal problem.

Completely unfair despite no history of claims and disputes opened against me, yet the buyer had abused this system before and eBay ADMITTED that! 
but they said there’s nothing they can do.

This can not be legal.

So what are my options here? I am livid. 

[a_c_green]

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@shoppingisfun.x wrote:

I had them both in a 3 way call but eBay said it’s PayPal’s issue and PayPal said it’s eBay’s issue 

and neither of them could help me.

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What, it was a 3-way call and they were saying that to each other? 

At this point, I really think it's time to stop calling. That is clearly doing nothing for you except raise your blood pressure, especially when both of the other parties have confirmed together that they cannot do anything useful for you. There is simply nothing further to achieve by calling again, so don't. See if the eBay contacts we have already mentioned here can offer any clarification, and also consider the eBay Facebook group and contacting outside media. Good luck.

[mam98031]

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@lacemaker3 wrote:

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@shoppingisfun.x wrote:

But then I checked my bank account today and there is a separate charge  for 3825 on January 4th  and there’s a completed charge on my credit card for 3825 on my credit card 

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OK, so most likely, the $3825 on your credit card is to pay your eBay Selling Invoice as shown in your screenshot (because I don't think that eBay accepts a bank account for payment, although you could have given them a debit card).

Where did the payment from your bank account on Jan 4 go to? Your PayPal account? You should follow up on that and find out where that money has gone to.

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That would have been driven by PP.  Meaning if Ebay is forcing a seller into a refund on a claim, they notify PP of the refund.  PP then issues the refund from the original transaction.  PP first tries to pull the money from what is in the PP account.  If not enough to cover it, they may leave it in a negative balance for a little while, like they did with the op.  But eventually if the PP negative balance is not covered, PP moves to recovering it first from your attached bank account and if that doesn't work out, then to your CC on file.

I believe the UA gives them permission to do this.

If a member has their Ebay account invoice to be paid via PP, then again it is up to PP.  Ebay puts in the transaction for payment, it will first try to pull from available cash in the PP account.  If that doesn't work out it kind of goes as described above.

At least this has been my experience with PP.

[lacemaker3]

@shoppingisfun.x,

There's something in your original post that is confusing me. Why are there two different dates for when the original payment was made? Was there something unusual about the original payment, that didn't go as normal?

Edit to add: I don't think this is a time-zone issue, because the seller is in California, and the buyer is in Washington state, so they are both in the same time zone (Pacific).

The first screenshot shows the original transaction date was Dec 04; that would have been the date you received the payment. 

But then the second screenshot of the disputed payment/chargeback shows the original transaction date was Dec 5. Is this definitely the same transaction as the one shown above?

(FYI, I know that $3,702.13 is the amount  you received, less PayPal fees and sales tax, after the buyer paid a total of $4,226.63 including shipping and sales tax. That's not the issue.)

[albertabrightalberta]

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@shoppingisfun.x wrote:

But then I checked my bank account today and there is a separate charge  for 3825 on January 4th  and there’s a completed charge on my credit card for 3825 on my credit card 

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I was going to ask whether you're absolutely positive that the money was refunded twice.

Since you have documentation from your bank showing that your account was debited, you should be able to satisfy the c.c. company that this is a double charge. File a dispute with the credit card company including docs showing the bank debit, the transaction and the double charges. 

[mam98031]

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@shoppingisfun.x wrote:

It’s still 0.00$

I’m just in shock! I can’t believe ebay would do this to me and not the buyer in this case

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Don't look at the balance, look at the details.  The balance would be zero if they put the transaction through PP.  That isn't the point.  You need to look at the details of your invoice.  Is there a $3825 charge and subsequent payment.

[shoppingisfun.x]

Yep! The high value claims rep had no clue what was going on and PayPal said they couldn’t do anything because eBay was the one who initiated it 

and eBay said they have no control over PayPal 

paypal basically said their hands are tied and they can’t help me. eBay refuses to even acknowledge the situation at hand

[shoppingisfun.x]

I believe it’s a time zone difference? 

thats what the PP rep explained

[lacemaker3]

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@shoppingisfun.x wrote:

I believe it’s a time zone difference? 

thats what the PP rep explained

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What time was the payment made? Full time and date from the date stamp for the original payments on both of those, please.

I don't think a time zone difference can explain it, because you and the buyer are both in the Pacific time zone.

[shoppingisfun.x]

I’m not sure if I can attach it here but I’ll send it to you in a PM

[purple-rain-store]

at least call the credit card dispute that one. Show them that was taken out fraudulently. Remove that cc from here and paypal. Ask for that number on cc to be removed & state fraud.  That way they can issue you a new card with a different cc number. They aren't in the right here if you've already had that payment taken out of your personal bank account and they turned around and charged you again to your credit card.  

[lacemaker3]

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@shoppingisfun.x wrote:

I’m not sure if I can attach it here but I’ll send it to you in a PM

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OK, thanks.

I'm wondering if there are somehow two original payments involved here, not sure how that could have happened. That's why I asked whether there was anything unusual about the original payment? Anything at all?

[mam98031]

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@shoppingisfun.x wrote:

I’m not sure if I can attach it here but I’ll send it to you in a PM

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I got it, but it is still your summary.  You need to look at your details.

[lacemaker3]

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@lacemaker3 wrote:

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@shoppingisfun.x wrote:

I’m not sure if I can attach it here but I’ll send it to you in a PM

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OK, thanks.

I'm wondering if there are somehow two original payments involved here, not sure how that could have happened. That's why I asked whether there was anything unusual about the original payment? Anything at all?

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Sorry,  I thought you were replying to me, but I see you were actually answering Mam.

I think it would be really helpful to check the time and date stamps on the original payment you received, and on the payment that is being disputed/chargebacked. 

I think that somehow there are two different payments involved, and that might be how the refund got issued twice.

[shoppingisfun.x]

No worries! Just sent the screenshot to you as well!:) 

it’s the same payment/transaction 

[shoppingisfun.x]

Yes definitely!! Thank you for the advice, my dad’s on the phone with the credit card company again (it’s actually his card but I’m an authorized user on his account)