Finally have Sales/but had to take PLs (Promoted Std) to 10-12% for ALL listings to Make it Happen

[katzrul15]

The title really says it all.

Have sales, but my PL percentages are killing me.  Played with it over and over on percentages and when I lower then to even 8%, sales stop.  At the 10-12% range, we have consistent sales.

Really dreading then the FALL update, additional fees and USPS increases.  Not certain how we (us) are going to be able to do this and remain profitable overall??  Anyone else concerned about this?

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@zamo-zuan  I guess I wasn't very clear. I'm not assuming anything about ebay's interpretation of its data. I'm simply saying that ebay BELIEVES, rightly or wrongly, that PLs drive enhanced sales velocity and that displaying PLs the way they do actually enhances buyer satisfaction. ebay also BELIEVES, rightly or wrongly, that its Vertical Strategy will lead to real growth. Plenty of us have expressed doubts about that strategy, but.... As long as ebay BELIEVES it, ebay will continue on that path.  

You put forth your BELIEF that ebay is on the wrong track, and I'm sure many people here agree with you. But that doesn't change my point: ebay is doing what it is doing precisely because it BELIEVES it is on the right track. 

ebay will continue on that track until either there is a management change or current management concludes that its belief was wrong and it needs to make changes to its strategy. 

[simply-the-best-for-you]

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques @ducks2k 

Sorry, didn't mean to post & run, but that's what I did LOL & then I fell asleep when I got back home.  I have no idea why mine look different than Ducks.  I thought it may be simply looking at your own vs someone else's, but that's not it b/c I see the ads that Ducks is talking about on their listing (at least the one I looked at, the Pronghorn stamp).   One difference that pops out at me is that I promote at a much higher than 2% rate.  Could that be it?  

I use automated, so I can't say for sure what the rate is, but probably around 10% (they vary), you could try changing one of your stamps to 10% & see if that is the difference?  I realize that may be a high rate for you, but even if it sells, it's only 70 cents, so may be worth it in the name of science.   BTW, I had to look at the Pronghorn stamp b/c they run through my yard all the time.  Pretty as they are, they love to munch my plants in the winter 🙄

ETA:  or try it on your Smokey the Bear stamp where it would only cost you 14 cents.  Leave it for a day or 2 in case it needs to index.  Hell, I'll pay you the 14c if it sells b/c I am really curious. 

[simply-the-best-for-you]

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@ducks2k wrote:

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques  - If I could have given your post two thumbs up, I would have.

I did notice that the "simply..." listings had a SixBit logo, so your conjecture that item template might be useful, is worth more investigation.

Yes, the bottom line is -- figure how to make it work or go away.  I'm not going away, so I will keep investigating.

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@ducks2k 

Yes, I do use Sixbit to list, maybe that makes a difference, I don't know.   But I do not use any "template" (other than copying old similar listings).  There's no template being used in the traditional sense.  

[valueaddedresource]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@zamo-zuan  I guess I wasn't very clear. I'm not assuming anything about ebay's interpretation of its data. I'm simply saying that ebay BELIEVES, rightly or wrongly, that PLs drive enhanced sales velocity and that displaying PLs the way they do actually enhances buyer satisfaction. ebay also BELIEVES, rightly or wrongly, that its Vertical Strategy will lead to real growth. Plenty of us have expressed doubts about that strategy, but.... As long as ebay BELIEVES it, ebay will continue on that path.  

You put forth your BELIEF that ebay is on the wrong track, and I'm sure many people here agree with you. But that doesn't change my point: ebay is doing what it is doing precisely because it BELIEVES it is on the right track. 

ebay will continue on that track until either there is a management change or current management concludes that its belief was wrong and it needs to make changes to its strategy. 

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques  I'll add one other, admittedly cynical, possibility here - the people at eBay making these decisions (Jamie, VP Ads Alex Kazim etc.) *don't* actually BELIEVE any of that, they're just doing their best to sell the story they have to sell for the short term financial gain, to keep wall street happy, keep the plates spinning or whatever other eBay/self serving reasons there might be.

Cult leaders don't necessarily *have*to be true believers - they just have to be convincing enough to get people to drink the Kool aide. 😉

Do I think it's quite as dark as all that? Depends on the day you ask me honestly lol

But in general, I don't get the sense any of eBay's current leadership has a strong, unshakeable conviction that what they're doing really is working - they're just hoping if they act like they believe it, everyone else will too.

[2013grotz]

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@isaiah53-57 wrote:

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@2013grotz wrote:

I've mentioned it before: I went PL on all my listings (and adjusted prices accordingly), and will note about 90% of my sales since then are associated with PL.  So evidently it would seem to be a necessity.  Indeed, it does seem ebay is playing a "pay to play" game.

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@2013grotz  ebay is on tilt from where I stand - Here is a clip from a post I just made in another thread:

"So now on top of the estimated 15% to 20%+ that comes right off the top of your selling price in fees, they would like you to promote your items up to another 10%(or even higher) to get sales, pushing you to give up 25% to 30%+ of your items selling price in fees alone - If you own the item for half of the selling price, that essentially means it will take close to, or even over 50% of your profit to sell an item here using promoted listings, and THAT'S not taking into account ANY extraneous fees, time, or risk involved.

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Indeed.  Basically when I started testing what PL would do for all listings, I put on my rate and then raised all my prices by that.  This happened to be at the same time of the last postal increase, so they went up pretty solidly.

Course my problem is that made me rather solidly in the most highest priced things on the site.  Problem there, as I've noted here many times in the past, is that there's multiple people selling the same items I have for under postage cost.  This makes it hard for me to move items (really what I'm doing, I'm cleaning out a rather huge "closet" of things), which is my real goal.   Not to mention any sales I get doesn't come anywhere near close to handling 1099K compliance costs, nor make it worth my while to even do ebay.

I've said it more than enough times and I'll say it again.  More or less once I find another source of income where I don't need the ebay money, I'm off the site for selling.  Not just PL or 1099K, but Managed Payments, exorbitant ebay FVF charges and numerous other things.  But when the site isn't treating sellers right, really all one can do.

[2013grotz]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@zamo-zuan 

ebay will continue on that track until either there is a management change or current management concludes that its belief was wrong and it needs to make changes to its strategy. 

Ebay is literally doing the business equivalent of getting in its own way with a number of things (for instance, the ebay buyer MBG policy).  Unfortunately, management thinks those things are right, but when you systematically alienate sellers, you aren't going to get the goods that buyers want to buy.  Especially with their current strategy of high value items, sellers that got any sense won't put their high-value items on ebay.

If you read these forums enough, the two strategies come out in different ways:

1) Don't put anything on the site you can't afford to give away because (ebay policies and attitudes towards sellers).

2) Don't sell low-value items because you won't get any money out of them for the high FVF fees and shipping.

Can't have both.  But can't keep systematically alienating sellers like they are now and expect to have a bunch of sellers stick around.  "We need buyers" comes out again and again in a lot of the screeds on these forums.  But all you're going to end up with a site full of buyers... and wait...

[evelyb30]

I've said it before and will say it again: companies that mistreat their customers (i.e. sellers in this instance)  eventually have neither customers nor company.  eBay has yet to understand this. 

[simply-the-best-for-you]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@ducks2k  Well, I use SixBit too....but I tend to keep my descriptions pretty short, and I don't think merely using SixBit does much. I'm looking more at page real estate. People who have all their photos within the description---and often fairly large---plus a longer text area---simply make their listing more prominent on the page, because the description box takes up more real estate. Does that help keep the buyer focused on the listing? I think it might....

But agree...bottom line is, we figure out how to make it work, or we go away...

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Oh, just read this that you use Sixbit too, so that rules out SB being the reason b/c when I look at their listings, I see the 2 rows of Similar Sponsored.  Remind me Mycottage, do you promote at the minimum rate or something higher? 

[zamo-zuan]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@zamo-zuan  I guess I wasn't very clear. I'm not assuming anything about ebay's interpretation of its data. I'm simply saying that ebay BELIEVES, rightly or wrongly, that PLs drive enhanced sales velocity and that displaying PLs the way they do actually enhances buyer satisfaction. ebay also BELIEVES, rightly or wrongly, that its Vertical Strategy will lead to real growth. Plenty of us have expressed doubts about that strategy, but.... As long as ebay BELIEVES it, ebay will continue on that path.  

You put forth your BELIEF that ebay is on the wrong track, and I'm sure many people here agree with you. But that doesn't change my point: ebay is doing what it is doing precisely because it BELIEVES it is on the right track. 

ebay will continue on that track until either there is a management change or current management concludes that its belief was wrong and it needs to make changes to its strategy. 

---

I was going to write something very similar to what @valueaddedresource posted, which is probably more well said than I would have been.

I view the decisions leadership is making as self-preservation to keep their jobs first and foremost. 

Beyond that, I'm doubtful they even believe in the "vertical strategy for growth". As there's a flaw in their logic. If it were based on growth alone that's a measurable statistic, they would be failing according to the stock reports, yet they are claiming success. 

Driving traffic to specific categories with their vertical strategy means little if the traffic and GMV is decreasing quarter by quarter, even in some of the categories they're focusing on (such as Motors). Expressing their "vertical strategy" in the way to move the goalposts during quarterly reports in a way that it give the illusion of success at a specific goal, while success of the platform and overall marketplace itself is failing. 

You could see them using this same strategy in their recent acquisitions. EBay literally owns WHI and WHI's tools far exceed what myFitment can do and is literally used by top manufacturers in the industry as well as AutoZone/etc. It grants an illusion of progress to the stockholders. 

[zamo-zuan]

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@2013grotz wrote:

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@zamo-zuan 

ebay will continue on that track until either there is a management change or current management concludes that its belief was wrong and it needs to make changes to its strategy. 

Ebay is literally doing the business equivalent of getting in its own way with a number of things (for instance, the ebay buyer MBG policy).  Unfortunately, management thinks those things are right, but when you systematically alienate sellers, you aren't going to get the goods that buyers want to buy.  Especially with their current strategy of high value items, sellers that got any sense won't put their high-value items on ebay.

If you read these forums enough, the two strategies come out in different ways:

1) Don't put anything on the site you can't afford to give away because (ebay policies and attitudes towards sellers).

2) Don't sell low-value items because you won't get any money out of them for the high FVF fees and shipping.

Can't have both.  But can't keep systematically alienating sellers like they are now and expect to have a bunch of sellers stick around.  "We need buyers" comes out again and again in a lot of the screeds on these forums.  But all you're going to end up with a site full of buyers... and wait...

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Similar sentiments to my other post, I don't believe what they even think is "right". I've spoken with members of their leadership, heads of the Motors category, etc. The truth is many of them don't even know how eBay functions. They don't really know the policies. They don't have any ability to look in to issues that you report to them.

I've even had them say ridiculous things such as "Once a customer buys from you they're *your customer* and *you can sell to them directly*" even though this directly contradicts eBay policy. They don't even know the basics. 

Nor did they have a clue of how their ad tools worked, how their service metrics worked, how their seller ratings work, or how their search works.

Furthermore, the very first words they said to me when I last met with them in person was "We know eBay is having issues, I want you to be frank with us." They KNOW things aren't as wonderful as they try to make it seem in their press releases. They know things aren't "right" on eBay.

Regarding #1, I can guarantee they don't have a clue about eBay's policies or attitude towards sellers. Only CS knows the policies.

Regarding #2, they're trained to give a specific response to questions about payments. They have no say in it and just deem it as "standard in the industry". If you have examples that go beyond their trained response, they will just say "We're told this but it seems you already have a retort for what we're told". 

You have to understand that these people are hired with specific purposes for their job role in mind. They know nearly nothing outside of their narrow focus. And there's no departments that are even assigned to hear how sellers feel about eBay policies. 

How many times have they said they added something "based on overwhelming feedback"? Where was this feedback from? Were there any surveys going on that the entire community missed the memo on? It's just their prepared responses and nothing more.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@simply-the-best-for-you  I'm just back from Time Away, haven't set up any promoted listing campaign so far, so at present, I'm not promoting at all. 

I do suspect its your sub category...maybe check other womens clothing listings?

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

@zamo-zuan @valueaddedresource I'm just going to bow out of this discussion. It's all very interesting, I usually enjoy this sort of thing, and everyone has opinions about what ebay should do or why ebay does this or that (including me),  but we're headed into Q4 and I'd rather focus on what we as sellers can DO (rather than telling ebay what ebay should do). That's why I started another thread about practical steps we can (maybe) take to reduce the impact of all these competitor listings on our view item page, so, if anyone has any suggestions they want to add to that thread, please do. 

[2013grotz]

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@evelyb30 wrote:

I've said it before and will say it again: companies that mistreat their customers (i.e. sellers in this instance)  eventually have neither customers nor company.  eBay has yet to understand this. 

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Indeed.  If you look at it, the sellers are the ones that are the customers.  They bring the goods to sell, ebay acts as a mediator (truth is signing up as a seller is effectively signing an adhesion contract anyway, so ebay is far more than a simple mediator being buyer and seller) , and collects money off that.  No sellers means no buyers which means no FVF or store subscriptions for Ebay.

[2013grotz]

Nothing would surprise me anymore.  I would be very surprised if anyone at ebay really knows what's happening with the website that has any real power to address any of it.

[zamo-zuan]

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@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:

@zamo-zuan @valueaddedresource I'm just going to bow out of this discussion. It's all very interesting, I usually enjoy this sort of thing, and everyone has opinions about what ebay should do or why ebay does this or that (including me),  but we're headed into Q4 and I'd rather focus on what we as sellers can DO (rather than telling ebay what ebay should do). That's why I started another thread about practical steps we can (maybe) take to reduce the impact of all these competitor listings on our view item page, so, if anyone has any suggestions they want to add to that thread, please do. 

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That's a topic I definitely look forward to. I'll have more time tomorrow most likely and I look forward to participating!