Finally got an eBay rep to explicitly state that there's no such thing as seller protection

[redline_auto_llc]

Got to love it. I'm going to write in to try to get that recording, I'd love to have that to go with my collection of returned rocks. For some context, I called in when a buyer opened a remorse return, escalated when they found out they'd have to pay return shipping, and then somehow escalated again to force the return shipping on to me along with a nice little defect.

At least the rep was honest this time, instead of giving meaningless platitudes.

@Anonymous any comment on the fact that an escalation specialist would flat out state there's no seller protection? It's something that most of us have understood for a long time, but I've got to say, it was pretty satisfying finally hearing that from an eBay rep's mouth.

[redline_auto_llc]

The language thing has less to do with it, I was more referring to people who make no effort to make a valid case for themselves, or even speak coherently. If English isn't your native language, no worries, but don't make one-word replies to messages and consider that a compelling argument in your favor.

A zero feedback rating however probably should come into consideration. It takes absolutely zero effort to make a new account, and when someone gets banned  for fraud (though I don't believe this actually happens) nothing stops them from making a new account and continuing as before. The entire feedback system is supposed to be designed around building trust, so why does eBay trust a brand new buyer more than a seller with a spotless track record? Of course that shouldn't be the deciding factor, but it certainly should come into play.

[luckythewinner]

Finally got an eBay rep to explicitly state that there's no such thing as seller protection

That eBay rep was wrong.

If you read the Seller Protection policy carefully, you will find there are two cases where a seller is protected. And while I'm sure that eBay has failed in some instances, you are generally protected when:

1) you provide adequate delivery confirmation for an "Item Not Recieved" dispute; and 

2) a buyer tries to get a second refund for a transaction that has already been refunded 

But in all other cases, you agree to abide by whatever decision eBay makes. And yours was not one of these two cases. 

[redline_auto_llc]

So sellers should be forced to issue refunds for rock in a box returns.

For some reason I really like typing rock in a box. Has a certain ring to it.

[redline_auto_llc]

And actually, I recently had a buyer lose an INR case when delivery confirmation showed that it had been delivered, and then immediately they opened a SNAD case and forced the return, which came back in multiple pieces. So no, INR protection is not actually protection.

[coolections]

I've never heard of this seller protection you are talking about.  Do you have any links showing examples of this seller protection ? I am thinking the CS rep was correct as Ebay does not get involved in he said/she said disputes.

[coolections]

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@redline_auto_llc wrote:

All I want to see is fair arbitration.

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It's called small claims court where a "judge" decides the case if you have been stolen from. Ebay is not a judge or jury. Next box of rocks you get file with the claims court.

[vintagecraze50]

They trust the brand new buyer over the experienced wonderfully performing seller because they err in the direction of the one who is bringing money, and want to be certain they are not stepping on their toes and causing them to stop buying here and because in a lot of cases the evidence to support the seller  is difficult to prove. In some cases the abuse from the buyer is BLATANT.  A blatant example would be a buyer with an 80 percent return rate, or an 80 percent INR rate.

[vintagecraze50]

That's a case that should have been looked into more carefully. Claiming INR when tracking shows delivered is a red flag that possibly something fishy was happening from the start.

[coolections]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

In some cases the abuse from the buyer is BLATANT.  A blatant example would be a buyer with an 80 percent return rate, or an 80 percent INR rate.

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@vintagecraze50

It would never happen but if it ever did you could provide evidence of this 80% return rate, correct ?

[redline_auto_llc]

I agree, and that's my point. I talked to numerous reps, and all of them said yes, this is fraud, too bad, cost of doing business. There is no seller protection.

[Anonymous]

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@redline_auto_llc wrote:

I agree, and that's my point. I talked to numerous reps, and all of them said yes, this is fraud, too bad, cost of doing business. There is no seller protection.

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Hi @redline_auto_llc, I'm working to have your recent conversations with Customer Service reviewed. If we have reason to believe that fraudulent activity is occuring, we will be able to protect a seller. If an agent you spoke with identified fraud and did not take appropriate action, we will work to get this resolved. If this was a miscommunication between you and the Customer Service agents, I will ensure appropriate coaching is provided so we can be more clear. I believe this may be a factor, as you have indicated that every agent you spoke with identified fraud, but I can see notes of a conversation confirming that this was a valid return request and that this was discussed with you. Either way, I'll make sure that the appropriate steps are taken on my end.

[redline_auto_llc]

@Anonymous I should give an update that this particular case has in fact been resolved. Apparently a mistake was made by the rep that allowed the second escalation, and so due to the fact that eBay was in error, the situation was resolved favorably on a subsequent call. However, it's a point of interest in itself that one rep will say word for word "there's no seller protection" and the next rep actually gives help.

The fact remains though that the return policy update that went into effect in November makes it all but impossible to protect ourselves from fraud. I fully understand that figuring out how to solve this issue is a logistical nightmare, and I don't think there's any one effective solution. However, the continual decline in the amount of control we have over our own business, coupled with new penalties and fees, is pretty demoralizing. There HAS to be a career solution than "the buyer is always right", because anyone here will tell you that buyers are frequently somewhere on the spectrum between mistaken and blatantly dishonest.

At the end of the day, eBay is still the best game in town, mostly because it's the only game in town. No seller is going to have a 100 percent perfect experience with every buyer, that's a given. However, any person that can read the policy can tell that all they have to do is return an empty box and get a free item and a full refund. All of the buyer protection policies seem to be written under the assumption that people as a whole are honest, and that's fundamentally a flawed theory. 

[buytodayshipnextday]

REMEMBER you are NOT talking to a customer service rep, you're reaching (most often) an out of  (U.S.) country, CALL CENTER, following a script/guidelines. The person(s) you're talking to may have a few hours or a few years experience so that in itself is dicey. Advice you receive is only what guidelines they must follow & you can almost always tell who has some experience as they are less likely to put you on hold for minutes.

To better answer your question, ebay is  more inclined to side with buyers because it is an industry standard.

Shop amazon or any site & to get you to buy, they offer free shipping & free returns (or at least one of them). No questions asked.

Shop any store, Target, Macy's, Walmart, Lowes....don't like it, wrong one, give any reason,  it's returned.

THAT is the industry standard & it will eventually be MANDATORY for ebay sellers with no way to opt out.

[redline_auto_llc]

Ok, again, return an empty box to Amazon, and you're not getting a refund. Same deal with Wal-Mart, Target, Best Buy, any retailer whose return process isn't determined by a third party who has ultimate authority while not having ANY involvement in the fulfillment of the sale.

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

eBay doesn’t get to see the box like Amazon would. They only get the seller telling them thebox was empty. The best they can do is look for patterns and suspend repeat offenders.