Final Value Fees are Insane

[the24-7shop]

I usually don't post on the public forums at all. But  I have been selling on Ebay for over 23 years and just

recently I sold a Sirius boombox  with the receiver in great condition. Was listed for $35.00 after the fees were taken out my pay to me was $21.40  **bleep**  am I not seeing something is wrong here??  I really am thinking outside the box here and is it worth my time and energy to let these people make actually more than I do ... I don't think so  I will reconsider my selling options moving forward

[mtgraves7984]

"I don't think so  I will reconsider my selling options moving forward"

@the24-7shop 

You've got other listings up... think long, think wrong. 🙄

[soh.maryl]

What are "older cities"? And why is the shipping cost more to those cities? And isn't the buyer expected to pay the shipping cost?  

[adkhighker]

Can you explain further?

Selling a lower priced item does not always translate to higher shipping costs, although it certainly can.

And people selling low priced items that require higher shipping costs are not necessarily paying "such high percentages".  I don't understand that statement at all.

Here is exactly what I said: "That's why so many people selling lower priced items that require higher shipping costs to ship anything weighing over a couple of pounds are paying such high percentages to sell here anymore."

So, if someone selling an item a $10 item weighing let's say 3 or 4 pounds, their cost to sell here is going to be higher than someone selling something for $10 weighing only 8 oz due to the FVF that's charged on shipping cost will be higher for the heavier packages, much higher if the package is going a long distance. 

eBay's Final Value Fee (which is what I assume we are discussing here) is calculated on (mainly) the price of the item, the  shipping cost and the state sales tax (if applicable).  

Of course that's how it's calculated, but there are clearly some people who don't get it that the FVF percentage is not the same percentage that it costs someone to sell something here. The percentage that it costs someone to sell something here is almost always higher than the FVF percentage, often much higher, as in the case of the OP's cost to sell their boombox. In the OP's case, the FVF was most likely in the 13.25% category, but their percentage of money it cost them to sell that boombox was a significantly higher percentage.

[adkhighker]

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@soh.maryl wrote:

"Subscription"? The cost of a subscription to a store is NOT part of the final value fee.  

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Correct. Whoever said that is mistaken. That would not be fun if eBay ever started charging a fvf on our stores. 

[adkhighker]

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@soh.maryl wrote:

Respectfully, have to disagree.  It's evident that the OP did NOT see the "writing on the wall".  The writing on the wall included the information about how eBay fees are calculated.  Although it's available for anyone to read, and especially should be read by sellers before pricing their item, it looks like the OP may have skipped that step for some reason.  

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I think the writing on the wall that the OP saw was that it wasn't worth it for them to sell something heavy with a relatively low selling price due to the higher shipping cost involved. But yes,  you could be right that they weren't aware of how everything is calculated as far as their fees. If they weren't aware about it then, they are now.

[monroe67]

"eBay's Final Value Fee (which is what I assume we are discussing here) is calculated on (mainly) the price of the item, the  shipping cost and the state sales tax (if applicable).  

Of course that's how it's calculated, but there are clearly some people who don't get it that the FVF percentage is not the same percentage that it costs someone to sell something here. The percentage that it costs someone to sell something here is almost always higher than the FVF percentage, often much higher, as in the case of the OP's cost to sell their boombox. In the OP's case, the FVF was most likely in the 13.25% category, but their percentage of money it cost them to sell that boombox was a significantly higher percentage."

Indeed, there are some people who don't "get" eBay's FVF system.  There seems to be a lot of creative usage of words and phrases used, such as "the percentage that it costs . . . to sell something here is almost always higher than the FVF percentage, often much higher."   

Well, yes, the total amount of the FVF on any eBay sale is, in true fact, almost always higher than the (FVF) percentage.  Why?  Because the FVF consists of two parts:  (1) a percentage of the total amount paid by the buyer plus (2) a flat basic fee of $0.30 per order. 

(I say "almost always higher" due to the Per Order fee of $0.30 because, in the categories of both men's and women's athletic shoes, the $0.30 per order fee is waived when the total amount of the sale is $150.00 or more.  The FVF percentage in those categories, for total amounts of sales over $150.00 is 8%.   However, sales in those categories under a total amount of $150.00 carry a 13.25% FVF percentage.)

It seems there are a few posters who like to shake up this particular hornet's nest, and it seems to me that these posters usually simply ignore eBay's definition of how they apply the FVF percentages.  Let me rephrase:  either they ignore this definition or they just do not understand the simple words and elementary mathematics that are involved.  

Simply put, it is virtually impossible to estimate, precisely, the dollar amount or even a precise Percentage of Item Price for selling anything on eBay.  There are just too many variables, too many factors that are completely unknown at the time of listing.  
(1)  The categories carry different FVF percentages ranging from 6.35% to 15%. 
(2) Those percentages are charged on the total amount paid by the buyer.  
      (a)  The total amount paid by the buyer can include postage/shipping costs.  My selling ID is on the west coast; I never know, until the item has been paid for, if my buyer is 10 miles away (which has happened; I could have driven that purchase to that buyer) or hundreds and hundreds of miles away (which usually happens).  In general, the further a sold item has to travel to its buyer, the more the postage will cost.
     (b)  The total amount paid by a buyer in the USA most often includes some sales tax.  Sales tax percentages vary widely and wildly across the nation, from around 4% to more than 10%.  Moreover, some states require that buyers pay sales taxes on the cost of shipping/postage.

My selling ID usually estimates a net payout of about 70% of a Buy It Now price, meaning eBay might retain as much as 30%.  Most often, eBay retains less than 30% of an estimated selling price, which is a good thing.  Very, very rarely has eBay retained a FVF of exactly 13.25% plus 30 cents of the selling price of one of my items.  

BTW, to echo the post from "inhawaii" earlier, the FVFs on sales made by my selling ID have always, always, every single time, without fail, been precisely eBay's published percentage plus 30 cents per order.  

[mam98031]

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@adkhighker wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@adkhighker wrote:

Yes, 38.8% being what it cost you to sell that item is definitely tough to take. Ouch. That's why so many people selling lower priced items that require higher shipping costs to ship anything weighing over a couple of pounds are paying such high percentages to sell here anymore. 

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Ebay has no such FVF rate for any category.

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Where exactly did I say it did?

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I understood your post.  The OP is of the opinion it is selling fees and you responded to that it was 38.8%.

While I understand you said it was "costs", but ignored the fact that the OP said it was fees.  That is a very thin like you want to draw.  You say costs, but your percentage is based of the OP's statements.

[mam98031]

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@adkhighker wrote:

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@soh.maryl wrote:

Respectfully, have to disagree.  It's evident that the OP did NOT see the "writing on the wall".  The writing on the wall included the information about how eBay fees are calculated.  Although it's available for anyone to read, and especially should be read by sellers before pricing their item, it looks like the OP may have skipped that step for some reason.  

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I think the writing on the wall that the OP saw was that it wasn't worth it for them to sell something heavy with a relatively low selling price due to the higher shipping cost involved. But yes,  you could be right that they weren't aware of how everything is calculated as far as their fees. If they weren't aware about it then, they are now.

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A seller does not have to stated the exact amount it will cost them to ship the item when a buyer purchases it.  That is a mistake many sellers make.  You are allowed to have a reasonable handling fee which is why this subject has been known as S&H [shipping and handling] for decades.

If a seller chooses to set the price they are charging the buyer for shipping at the exact or near exact cost of the shipping to the seller that is perfectly fine, but they need to consider the FVF on the shipping when calculating what to charge for the item they are selling because it is a cost they have to pay.

[adkhighker]

BTW, to echo the post from "inhawaii" earlier, the FVFs on sales made by my selling ID have always, always, every single time, without fail, been precisely eBay's published percentage plus 30 cents per order.  

Same for me. Right to the penny.

[adkhighker]

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@soh.maryl wrote:

What are "older cities"? And why is the shipping cost more to those cities? And isn't the buyer expected to pay the shipping cost?  

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I was wondering about the "older cities" as well.  Everything else in that post was very well stated, so I'm guessing that the "older" part was just a typo. 

[theteamsetguy]

@mam98031 ,

Exactly!. I've always charges a flat rate shipping to keep things simply. On some orders I come out ahead and some I lose a little bit. At the end of the day I just want the shipping I collect to cover the actual shipping, 30 cent fee, FVF on taxes, and FVF on shipping. I charge $3.75 for one item and 50 cent for each additional item. Most of my items weight about 2 ounces. I collect on average $5.25 per order on shipping because most of my buyers purchase more than one item. 

According to Pirateship my average actual shipping per package was $4.28 last year. My shipping supplies are pennies because I buy bubble envelopes by the case of 500 that costs 6 cent each. I will be raising my shipping to $3.99 plus 50 cent for each additional item shortly to cover the recent postage increase when i get a chance to change them on all 6,500 listing which takes a little time.

[dbfolks166mt]

Of course I know that the selling cost is not the FVF's. I already pointed out clearly that there is a big difference in percentages between the percentage of eBay's final value fees and the percentage of what it costs to sell here.   Whether the OP knows that or not, I do not know. The 38.8% I referenced is the percentage of money that the OP saw gone from their $53 selling price.  Or if you want to look at it another way, the OP ended up with 61.2% of their sold price. 

     Actually the selling price was $71.90 which was the sellers gross revenue. The seller wound up with $21.40 so the seller wound up with 29.7% of their gross revenue from the sale. The other 70.3% was their selling cost. Out of that $10.40 was eBay fees which represents 14.49% of the total gross revenue. 

[lilyswan2]

so don't supermarkets yet a lot of people complain about rising prices...if op or any seller feels the fees are unjust they have the right to complain...that's how things can maybe be changed...going along with something does not equate to agreement with it...

[dbfolks166mt]

Did you mean to say that "it is not twice as much . . ."?

     If you are talking about just the FVF's then yes I may have incorrectly typed. If you are talking about selling costs that is a different animal. That is the problem with a lot of these postings the two are never separated and the math is one incorrectly in calculating the fees which are a bit above the 13.25% published rate but are NOT twice as much. 

[dogofwar777]

Another reason I stopped selling here. I only buy here now. When I do have something to sell I usually take it to local buyers who hand me cash, no fees to pay, no hassle.