Final Value Fee on shipping!?!? - what a rip off!

[bobo710]

I am told that ebay started charging FVF on shipping way back in 2011 and that it says so in the seller center..

But I just took a look at the seller center under Fees and Features and it specifically states NOT including shipping:

10% in all categories. Exceptions apply.

Percentage charged on total amount of the sale by category

• Maximum fee $750*
• Top Rated Plus listings get a 10% final value fee discount (not including shipping)

But even if I am misinterpreting that, It also says "total amount of the sale".. news flash for eBay: shipping is NOT part of the sale!  It is a fee charged to the buyer that passes straight to USPS to purchase a label.  It adds ZERO to a sellers profit margin, it IS NOT A SALE!  This is a total RIP OFF! I charge the buyer exactly what it costs me to ship something, and my margins have to be kept so low to compete with the scammers and thieves selling on here that it is hardly worth selling on ebay as it is, now I find out that my shipping actually cost more than I thought!

[buyselljack2016]

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@bobo710 wrote:

WTH did you get that idea?  You charge free shipping... bull.. you build your shipping in to your SALE PRICE therefore it IS part of your sale and you pay the FVF on it. That is your decision..

Shipping is not a sale, it is a pass through cost and therefore should not have a final value fee.. If they want to charge someone let them charge USPS, or FedEx for all the business eBay brings them..

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So, back to my question. Should I pay a higher FVF for the same total amount paid by the buyer than the seller that charges separately?  $10 + $5 ship is the same total  as $15/shipping included.

The fact the you charge actual shipping cost has no bearing on the eBay FVF policy. 

Should PP charge you less because part of the payment is for shipping?

[mr_lincoln]

@bobo710   TRS Plus means any listing that has 30 day Free returns in order to qualify for the 10% TRS Plus discount on the FVF of the item.    As to any FVF being charged on shipping you can thank dishonest Sellers from the early years when eBay did NOT charge FVFs on shipping.  Sellers would list their $ 100 item for $ 1 and $ 99 in shipping thus ripping eBay off for their just fees.  So you can thank them for that.

[johnrj1226]

@bobo710 

If you elect to pass  thru shipping at your cost that is strictly your decision.  You  have the several options -

1.  Add a handling fee to the shipping amount to  cover things like packing/packaging/printing materials, etc.

2.  Sell your shipping at full retail price vs the cost at commercial rate or or commercial rate plus.  No where is it written by eBay that you MUST sell your shipping at the amount you pay for it.  A lot of people thing otherwise.

3.  Again a shipping charge collected from a buyer is in fact  considered revenue (aka a sale).  For income tax purposes the amount you paid for the label   can be 100% deducted as a cost of sale along with the final value fee you paid eBay.  In reality that extra FVF on shipping should not be a game breaker.  If one charges $10 for shipping you are looking at 1 buck extra cost.   People that use  "free shipping" to promote  sales  have been paying the extra buck well before 2011.

4.  All your costs of sales  plus your target profit amount or percentage needs to be recovered in your selling price for each and every item you sell.  If  one sells at low ball prices you will find making a decent margin hard to do.

5.  Sellers need to continually to find  ways to reduce  there cost of  sale whether it be shipping label, item acquisition costs, etc.  "Where there is  the will there is a way."

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

Thinking that way, everything but profit is a pass through expense. Taxes, item cost, office expenses. They are also required to complete the sale. Hey, some profit is spent on buying new inventory for my business. That’s a pay through too, I don’t get to keep it.

why should postage be any different than any other expense?

Fees are charged on total revenue. It’s up to you to figure out what to do with what is left.

[papermoneyforme]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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@slippinjimmy wrote:
Take a look at current USPS International rates and you might be surprised

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True, but when a US seller ships internationally and pays those high USPS international rates he does not pay Final Value Fees on those high USPS international rates.

He only pays Final Value Fees on his first qualifying domestic rate.

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That is true in Canada as well but it is our domestic tracking that is ridiculous as well as international tracking and we have no Global Shipping Program either.

I refuse to sell overseas any more due to eBay's absurd return policies and costs involved with cheaper items.

[papermoneyforme]

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@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

I grew up in Canada. 

Why do you think sellers who use “free” shipping should pay higher fees than those who charge actual? Why does it matter which bucket the money goes into? The same total should cost the same fee.

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I did not say that. I use free shipping as well and pay fees on that total.

Canada is not what it used to be and CP is trying not to run a huge deficit like USPS does.

What I am saying is our domestic shipping with tracking for any item is absurd.

Take the same item and look up USPS rates with tracking and look up CP rates with tracking.

[papermoneyforme]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

@bobo710   TRS Plus means any listing that has 30 day Free returns in order to qualify for the 10% TRS Plus discount on the FVF of the item.    As to any FVF being charged on shipping you can thank dishonest Sellers from the early years when eBay did NOT charge FVFs on shipping.  Sellers would list their $ 100 item for $ 1 and $ 99 in shipping thus ripping eBay off for their just fees.  So you can thank them for that.

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Then Ebay should have turfed those sellers instead of taking the easy way out and shafting the honest sellers to line their pockets.

[buyselljack2016]

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@papermoneyforme wrote:

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

@bobo710   TRS Plus means any listing that has 30 day Free returns in order to qualify for the 10% TRS Plus discount on the FVF of the item.    As to any FVF being charged on shipping you can thank dishonest Sellers from the early years when eBay did NOT charge FVFs on shipping.  Sellers would list their $ 100 item for $ 1 and $ 99 in shipping thus ripping eBay off for their just fees.  So you can thank them for that.

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Then Ebay should have turfed those sellers instead of taking the easy way out and shafting the honest sellers to line their pockets.

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Sending those sellers away would not help eBay's bottom line.  As with any business, the $$$ are the goal, and the easiest way to that goal is the route that will be taken.

[nobody*s_perfect]

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@papermoneyforme wrote:

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@mr_lincoln wrote: ....  Sellers would list their $ 100 item for $ 1 and $ 99 in shipping thus ripping eBay off for their just fees.  So you can thank them for that.

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Then Ebay should have turfed those sellers instead of taking the easy way out and shafting the honest sellers to line their pockets.

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It's impossible to now where to draw the line.  Maybe it's clear that the $1 item doesn't require $99 shipping, or even a $10 item with $90 shipping.  But what about the $70 item with $30 shipping, or  $50 with $50 shipping? It might actually cost $50 depending on weight and dimensions.  It would be impossible for  eBay to effectively police the site to know the shipping weight and dimensions of every package. They cannot force sellers to use eBay shipping. Many small sellers don't have a printer, so they ship at their local PO, while larger sellers have their own in-house systems which are often more efficient and possibly also cheaper than shipping through eBay.

When eBay changed the policy, they also explained that they wanted to remove a disincentive for sellers to offer free shipping.  

[scstool]

I used to defend the FVF on shipping because Ebay had to do something about the fee avoidance issue. I considered the ease of Ebay shipping with just a few mouse clicks a "value added" and the discount were worth while. But sellers who were being fair with their shipping costs were being punished because of those attempting fee avoidance.

Times change and I now think the FVF on shipping is excessive and Ebay's rationale is flawed. That is because for those sellers using Ebay Shipping the exact amount of shipping is known by Ebay. So it would be very simple for Ebay to not punish those sellers by offering a 10% discount on Ebay shipping.  This method would punish the few remaining shippers jacking up shipping costs while not punishing sellers using actual shipping costs.

That would leave those who ship outside of Ebay stranded, but there may be some  solutions for that issue through linking accounts or paying through managed payments or Paypal.

If Ebay is going to continue with the FVF on shipping at least give us a full featured bug free shipping solution. And yes the old system was better than the new mess. By full featured I mean adding features like cubic box  and cubic soft pack services.

[mam98031]

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@kensgiftshop wrote:

Have you noticed that Pay Pal also charges you a fee on the shipping charges you collect?

Just like Pay Pal, Ebay bases their fee's based on the total amount, item plus shipping.

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Not just those sites.  So do Etsy, Amazon and the like.  It is just common practice for a period LONGER than Ebay has been doing it, as Ebay was NOT leading the way on this one.  Other sites came before them.

[a_c_green]

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@scstool wrote:

Times change and I now think the FVF on shipping is excessive and Ebay's rationale is flawed. That is because for those sellers using Ebay Shipping the exact amount of shipping is known by Ebay.

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While I don't disagree with you, I think it clouds the issue by referring to shipping rather than postage. Shipping is income, a fee that the seller charges. Postage is an expense that eBay can see if the seller buys the label through eBay/PayPal. Once the postage is deducted, what remains goes to the seller, and that's their true Final Value of the buyer's payment, from which eBay can take their 10%. eBay does not charge a percentage of any other seller expense, and it makes no sense to charge a percentage of this expense (postage) either.

For example, a $100 item costing $5 to ship nets the seller $95 on the sale, but FVF is charged on $100, or $10. The seller should really be paying $9.50. 

A $100 item costing $20 to ship nets the seller $80 on the sale, but again FVF is charged on $100. The seller should really be charged $8; instead he is charged $10.  Thus his FVF percentage is higher than a seller who didn't have to pay so much in postage.

Deducting the postage at the time the label is purchased will result in an accurate 10% charged to both sellers in this example equally, based on what they actually received of the buyer's payment. This applies equally well regardless of whether they were offering "Free" Shipping or charging for it, and regardless of whether they were charging actual cost or gouging for a higher fee.

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

I really do not understand which part of sellers got compensating changes that some posters are not getting? Most sellers before and after the change came out the same. Some even paid less. Posters keep talking about it as a money grab but it was NOT.

What these posters want is cheap fees and they’re using complaining about the FVF on shipping to get there. Do you think these posters would be happy if eBay changed it back and charged 15-20% on item price and sellers were only allowed to charge actual shipping? 

Ebay is never going to drop their fees, no matter how many somersaults sellers do.

[the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth]

@papermoneyforme 

So if you have free shipping and pay fees on the total, why would you give your non free shipping competitors an edge?

It makes no sense that if you take in $50 for a ball and another seller takes in $40 + $10 shipping, that you want your competitor to pay lower fees than you do. That’s very nice of you but I don’t think it’s good business.

The reason I’m saying you want free shipping sellers to pay higher fees is because that’s exactly what happens when fees are charged on item price only.

[papermoneyforme]

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@the*dog*ate*my*tablecloth wrote:

@papermoneyforme 

So if you have free shipping and pay fees on the total, why would you give your non free shipping competitors an edge?

It makes no sense that if you take in $50 for a ball and another seller takes in $40 + $10 shipping, that you want your competitor to pay lower fees than you do. That’s very nice of you but I don’t think it’s good business.

The reason I’m saying you want free shipping sellers to pay higher fees is because that’s exactly what happens when fees are charged on item price only.

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I have free shipping in Canada so I don't have to pay FVF's on our insane shipping cost to the US.