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Every platform has problems

New c-net article about what's been going on behind the scenes at Amazon. This has affected the 3rd party venue sellers over there and really put them at a disadvantage.

 

https://www.cnet.com/news/amazon-reportedly-probing-employees-leaking-data-for-bribes/

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Re: Every platform has problems


@gracieallen01 wrote:

Ya know what I see as the problem?  Oh, and in the meantime, I think all of you can take solice in knowing that you are each right - it is ebay's fault and it is the sellers's fault.  Yes, even those good, bad and/or ugly buyers - they are at fault, as well.

The problem is the sole and single common denominator - people.  Everybody wants something, but everybody has their own style and their own objectives.  Everybody has their own agenda.

The problem is easy to see.  Unfortunately, there is that there is NO single remedy.

 

(personal opinion - your mileage may vary)

 

Absolutely.  Seeing the big picture is realistic~just focusing on certain aspects of the issue isn't.

Message 46 of 74
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Re: Every platform has problems


@gracieallen01 wrote:

If you stop and think about it, seller quality has NOT declined - nor has it gotten better.  By ratio - there are probably just as many bad sellers here now as there were back in them 'good ole days' - per good sellers. Lots of sellers just don't know any better and/or are lazy nowadays - back then, a lot just didn't know any better and/or were lazy.

 

I would also say that ebay changed away from being a 'venue' because there wasn't enough money in that - at least, not enough to support the management.


I can unequivocably state that the quality of sellers and subsequently true SNADs have greatly risen.  I know that I had almost no issues for years here~then it just started getting worse and worse~and this sentiment has been echoed by other long time members as well~and I have not changed in my buying behavior.  I put this around 2008, when Ebay implemented the MBG.  I believe this was to reassure buyers their money was safe in view of these developments.  This is not surprising due to the many more sellers there are now than there were "back in the day".  

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Re: Every platform has problems


@ted_200 wrote:

Yes, seller quality has declined here, and there is a very high rate of legitimate SNADS.  That in no way indicates that Ebay should go back to being just a venue, but it rather bolsters my statement that it is because of issues that Ebay had to move away from the just a venue stance. 

 

That still makes no sense.  eBay had to go away from "just a venue" because there were too many issues with sellers, but since doing so seller quality has declined?   

 

So it's cause and effect.  Adverse situations, Ebay steps in with sanctions to correct.

 

To me, that sounds like:  Adverse situations, eBay steps in with sanctions to correct, but adverse situations increase in frequency = makes things worse instead. 


Ted  the last  poster's statment  ebay  had  to drop just Venue make's no since. Since   ebay's problems  when  get company that  has too groups of employee's and Ceo's  with  two  different mined sets  of views  about it's site members :  One group has the View that all sellers are crooks out  to scam buyers ! .  The other  group in the office  View is different they don't have the mine set of all sellers are crooks! Their view  is  that   sellers need protections  just like buyers   and yes you  have some bad apples  also .        Ebay's  buyer first  policy's started  by the former ceo J.D .  has done a lot  damage  to site .That  current Ceo D.W. said was going to fix  but  failed to do so  . 

Message 48 of 74
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Re: Every platform has problems

It makes sense~

 

Buyers were leaving because of false, retaliatory negs being left by sellers in response to a buyer's honest neg.  So Ebay eliminated that to help keep buyers here.

 

Issues with legitimate SNADs and attempts to intimidate buyers into abandoning a return.  Hence, the MBG so buyers would feel safe that their money was protected.

 

Issues with cancellations.  Buyers wanted the item they ordered, not a refund.

Hence that became part of seller metrics.

 

Shipping whenever.  Hence a seller metric for adherence to handling times.

 

IOW while there are many great sellers here who do act responsibly and professionally, there are others who do not, and to protect both Ebay itself and those sellers and buyers,  they took an active stance and moved from the just a venue one.  Self preservation was probably a big motivator.  

 

In a perfect world, all sellers and all buyer would act responsibly, and Ebay would not need to oversee the process,  but this is not a perfect world and it doesn't happen.

 

 

Message 49 of 74
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Re: Every platform has problems


@tunicaslot wrote:

I think you meant "does not affect the validity of my point" but it definitely does - because it's called sour grapes. That may not be your intention - but this is exactly what is reflected by posters who say they are leaving after one mishap, say they don't sell here anymore or say they don't buy here anymore. If that is the case why post?

 

They are better off commisserating with each other on Ina's site where they seem to congregate.

 

Most people move on especially those with a history that know or feel a site is doing them wrong. I'm done, that's it - I'm out of here - and they move on to something that benefits them.


Please explain to me how pointing out real time software malfunctions and their effects on real buyers is a case of "sour grapes".  The analogy doesn't even make sense. 

 

 

sour grapes
phrase of sour
 
  1. used to refer to an attitude in which someone adopts a negative attitude to something because they cannot have it themselves.
     
Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".
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Re: Every platform has problems


@castlemagicmemories wrote:

You're blaming things getting worse instead on Ebay when it should be on the proliferation of questionable sellers.  Seller metrics and standards didn't cause more questionable sellers; the seller himself did that.  Think like the proliferation of weeds.

 

One would suppose then, that since you are so vehement that it is Ebay's fault that things have worsened, you advocate booting sellers at the first hint of trouble.   More stringent metrics would address the problem more efficiently, which is what you want.

 


Excuse me, but... who owns the site?  Are you seriously trying to say that eBay cannot be held responsible for what happens on eBay?

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".
Message 51 of 74
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Re: Every platform has problems

It's true, each marketplace has their problems.

 

In my experience, the bigger problems with both marketplaces:

 

Amazon: Very vulnerable to abuse by foreign sellers. For example, China sellers do frivilous claims against honest sellers, where sellers have to provide large amounts of documentation to prove their items as authentic. Meanwhile, you report a China-based seller for legitimately breaking copyright, and the claims don't go anywhere, as Amazon is not able to confirm or deny authenticity.

 

The other major issue with Amazon, is in regards to Customer Service. The CS reps on the phone will straight up lie because they send a survey after phone calls. 

In truth, the CS reps do not have the power to do anything. They can 100% understand your case, but even they must send to their Seller Performance team to do anything.

 

This is where the problem comes in. The seller performance CS system is somewhat automated. I've had supervisors write appeals with me for the Seller Performance team, and even though you hit every requirement, it is automatically rejected.

 

You are literally unable to speak to someone who has the ability to help you, and getting past their automated systems is the biggest challenge.

 

When we used to sell on Amazon, we had a very obvious case - a manufacturer made a claim on one of our items for copyright, when our item was a DIFFERENT brand than the manufacturer! It was an open and shut case. 

It still took us well over a month to get past the automated system to have it resolved.

 

EBay: EBay's customer service, often times, surpasses Amazon's. You can actually speak to people who have the ability to solve most issues. 

 

EBay is a bit more problematic with policies. Often times the policies are very unfair to sellers, and even in situations where you have hard evidence, it is not accepted. On Amazon, if you use FBA, you can use their image verification system to be protected. On eBay, you are 100% unprotected in the same cases.

 

In 2018, eBay has many new problems due to the increased outsourcing of their development, and accelerated rate of change.

 

Amazon has much less huge technical issues compared to eBay. Their development team & server infrastructure is very obviously better than eBay's. Their changes are typically well tested. EBay's changes are most of the time untested & bug filled. Instead of fixing these issues before moving on, eBay keeps rolling out change after change, introducing more & more bugs.

 

Which is part of the problem. EBay technical team used to call us back on rare occasions. Now eBay's tech team does not do that at all. 

EBay also has the new catalog team this year. This team is also outsourced. If you have catalog issues? Too bad. Nobody can help you. 

 

There's no department overseeing the tech team. There's no department overseeing the catalog team. If you are having trouble with either team, you are simply out of luck.

 

This is a contrast to Amazon. Amazon is jumping through hoops to get past their automated CS systems, but if you get past their systems, you will promptly get assistance. On eBay, you can be escalated to every department, but even those departments, the best they can do is email the outsourced team and hope for a response. 

 

EBay also does much more search manipulation. Some are still arguing this, but it is extremely obvious this year if you simply search your own items and sort by price. It's not really something that can be argued anymore. And it's very bad if you have buyers contacting you because they could not find your items, and the items that are showing up for them are higher prices than yours.

 

We had technical issues for many months this year, and the eBay CSR's told me directly that the Utah office's CS team believes they have found a common denominator with all the accounts facing visibility issues this year. They repeatedly are escalating it to the tech team. The tech team is simply rejecting it. So their hands are tied.

 

We have had catalog issues this year as well. Since before the Spring update in March we have been requesting. Right now we have 3+ cases open (1 was recently merged in to these 3 last week). Not a single case has been resolved. In all these months, we're still not showing up in the new catalog properly.

 

EBay also has put additional requirements upon us that our competitors do not have. We asked some of our partners (who are also top sellers in our category) and they have confirmed that their branded items appeared in the new catalog no questions asked. An ex-employee of ours, on a new eBay store under 6 months old, with a completely new brand that was not registered yet, was added to the new catalog no questions asked.

 

Meanwhile, our brand was the #1 selling brand in the category over the last 4-5 years, and after many months of requesting to be added to the catalog, we had additional requirements put upon us. We even had to provide eBay information about where our items are manufactured! This is a huge issue for us. Not only is it unfair that our competitors did not have to provide this, but asking for manufacturing information is a very iffy situation. There's NDA's in place so I'm not even sure we are rightfully allowed to share that information. But we did provide eBay with what they asked, and STILL have not had our situation resolved. 

 

This is a potential conflict of interests, because now eBay has information on where the top selling brand in the category is being manufactured, and could use that information to their own benefit.

 

On Amazon, if you got past their automated systems, there's 0% chance that you would not have received assistance in as many months as we have spent trying to resolve these issues.

 

Furthermore, eBay's upcoming change to SNAD FVF's is unfair beyond a point that Amazon policies have went. Becuase you have absolutely no way to fight SNAD's, and if the customer opens as a SNAD and even admits it was not a SNAD, you are STILL stuck with the defect, no way to fight it, and could have FVF's added on.

 

This is a huge security vulnerability as well, because buyers can abuse this situation and potentially force other sellers to have increased FVF's, basically making it impossible to compete in the category.

 

Regarding "bribes", well it's pretty well documented at this point that eBay does have some favortism for extremely large sellers as well. Feedback being manipulated, or defects being removed. A quick google search finds many examples of this. It sounds very much like the Amazon situation.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

With that said, its true, both markets do have their advantages and disadvantages. 

 

Part of the discontent we have with eBay personally, is that eBay was actually a very great place to do business, until the recent changes this year. Between broken features, technical issues affecting visibility that caused us to lose half our staff, catalog issues that have been impossible to receive a response, run-arounds from employees, 3+ high ranking representatives disappearing when helping us, lies from supervisors (where eBay admit we were not being treated fairly), and policies becoming more and more difficult to do business... it has been a very hectic year.

 

It also seems many of the changes are counter-productive. They keep saying they want to compete for market share with Amazon. But their changes this year have done nothing except make eBay prices go UP. EBay's one advantage over Amazon was the prices. They have basically given up that advantage, in order to try to offer better shipping and return options for their customers. But their shipping & returns methods STILL do not meet the bar set by Amazon. So now eBay lost their price advantage, and is still 2nd rate in Shipping/Returns. Meanwhile, the focus on shipping & returns still has some obvious issues with the policies being fair for sellers, and these have not been addressed.

 

I'm hoping 2018 is just growing pains for eBay, and they will get on track in 2019. But I have to be honest, I am very worried. The recent changes are not helping them achieve their stated goals. Making things harder on sellers is not the way to grow eBay, as sellers are the core to eBay as they do not provide their own merchandise. Raising prices for buyers is not the way to grow traffic on eBay either. Trying to emulate Amazon is destined to fail, as customers have no reason to shop on a 2nd rate Amazon rather than just using Amazon directly. And eBay is giving away their biggest advantages they had - big pricing, and a marketplace where sellers of unique or rare items could find success.

 

 

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Re: Every platform has problems


@gramophone-georg wrote:

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

You're blaming things getting worse instead on Ebay when it should be on the proliferation of questionable sellers.  Seller metrics and standards didn't cause more questionable sellers; the seller himself did that.  Think like the proliferation of weeds.

 

One would suppose then, that since you are so vehement that it is Ebay's fault that things have worsened, you advocate booting sellers at the first hint of trouble.   More stringent metrics would address the problem more efficiently, which is what you want.

 


Excuse me, but... who owns the site?  Are you seriously trying to say that eBay cannot be held responsible for what happens on eBay?

******************************************************************************************

 

Ebay can't be blamed for the proliferation of bad sellers.  I'm saying they have no control over that behavior initially, but metrics are designed to stop that behavior eventually.  Performance and behavior are the responsibility of those sellers, but of course Ebay is responsible for the performance of those sellers, ultimately, as their poor performance affects sales.  The only way Ebay can enforce those standards is through seller metrics.  So since we both agree Ebay is ultimately responsible, you are advocating stricter seller metrics and standards, immediately booting sellers at the first SNAD or OOS.  That would accomplish what you feel Ebay is responsible for, the elimination of bad sellers.  The first sign of abusing buyers through hostile communication, they are gone.  The first negative comment in a positive format, they are gone.  The standards were put in place to assure proper performance, but you say they are not working because there are so many bad sellers, so the logical step you want is less allowance of any errors, more immediate permanent suspensions for any issues.  After all, that is Ebay's responsibility, and will address the issue of bad sellers as you want them to.


 

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Re: Every platform has problems

Are you seriously trying to say that Ebay is not hard enough on sellers?  That you think immediate expulsion due to a seller mishap is the answer?  That Ebay is too soft on sellers, and should be much more stringent in their policies and seller metrics?

 

They do give sellers more of a chance to work out their issues now than in the past, when they did boot far more quickly.  But you want to go back to that?

 

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Re: Every platform has problems


@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Are you seriously trying to say that Ebay is not hard enough on sellers?  That you think immediate expulsion due to a seller mishap is the answer?  That Ebay is too soft on sellers, and should be much more stringent in their policies and seller metrics?

 

They do give sellers more of a chance to work out their issues now than in the past, when they did boot far more quickly.  But you want to go back to that?

 


Where did you get that notion? Of course not. If you read what I wrote, I said that the idea that eBay's not in control of its own platform isn't logical.

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".
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Re: Every platform has problems


@gramophone-georg wrote:

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Are you seriously trying to say that Ebay is not hard enough on sellers?  That you think immediate expulsion due to a seller mishap is the answer?  That Ebay is too soft on sellers, and should be much more stringent in their policies and seller metrics?

 

They do give sellers more of a chance to work out their issues now than in the past, when they did boot far more quickly.  But you want to go back to that?

 


Where did you get that notion? Of course not. If you read what I wrote, I said that the idea that eBay's not in control of its own platform isn't logical.


You are focusing on one aspect and eliminating another.  If you state there is a proliferation of bad sellers and that is Ebay's fault because they are in control of their site, then logically, for Ebay to correct that problem, they have to be far stricter in their seller metrics to eliminate those bad sellers far quicker, possibly at the first offense by permanent suspending them.

 

With all due respect, while you did not say that explicitly, implicitly you did.  How else can Ebay correct the problem since it is their site and their responsibility without taking stronger stands in that regard.  You can't blame Ebay without agreeing to allowing them to take those stronger stands.

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Re: Every platform has problems


@castlemagicmemories wrote:

@gramophone-georg wrote:

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Are you seriously trying to say that Ebay is not hard enough on sellers?  That you think immediate expulsion due to a seller mishap is the answer?  That Ebay is too soft on sellers, and should be much more stringent in their policies and seller metrics?

 

They do give sellers more of a chance to work out their issues now than in the past, when they did boot far more quickly.  But you want to go back to that?

 


Where did you get that notion? Of course not. If you read what I wrote, I said that the idea that eBay's not in control of its own platform isn't logical.


You are focusing on one aspect and eliminating another.  If you state there is a proliferation of bad sellers and that is Ebay's fault because they are in control of their site, then logically, for Ebay to correct that problem, they have to be far stricter in their seller metrics to eliminate those bad sellers far quicker, possibly at the first offense by permanent suspending them.

 

With all due respect, while you did not say that explicitly, implicitly you did.  How else can Ebay correct the problem since it is their site and their responsibility without taking stronger stands in that regard.  You can't blame Ebay without agreeing to allowing them to take those stronger stands.


Please stop telling me what I'm saying, because your interpretation is not correct. Thanks.

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".
Message 57 of 74
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Re: Every platform has problems


@castlemagicmemories wrote:

@gramophone-georg wrote:

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Are you seriously trying to say that Ebay is not hard enough on sellers?  That you think immediate expulsion due to a seller mishap is the answer?  That Ebay is too soft on sellers, and should be much more stringent in their policies and seller metrics?

 

They do give sellers more of a chance to work out their issues now than in the past, when they did boot far more quickly.  But you want to go back to that?

 


Where did you get that notion? Of course not. If you read what I wrote, I said that the idea that eBay's not in control of its own platform isn't logical.


You are focusing on one aspect and eliminating another.  If you state there is a proliferation of bad sellers and that is Ebay's fault because they are in control of their site, then logically, for Ebay to correct that problem, they have to be far stricter in their seller metrics to eliminate those bad sellers far quicker, possibly at the first offense by permanent suspending them.

 

With all due respect, while you did not say that explicitly, implicitly you did.  How else can Ebay correct the problem since it is their site and their responsibility without taking stronger stands in that regard.  You can't blame Ebay without agreeing to allowing them to take those stronger stands.


I've made two points in this thread.

 

The first is that yes, while all platforms indeed have problems, eBay stands alone in my experience with an incredibly convoluted search engine, further complicated by a way overly complicated buying and paying process exacerbated by constant glitches that are driving buyers away.

 

The second is that these things I stated above happening are NOT out of eBay's control. eBay owns the site and claims to be a software company. If this sort of thing really IS out of eBay's control, it IS eBay's fault because this control never should have been abdicated. He who owns the site owns the problems. Period.

 

As to all the rest of what you are claiming I said... you'll have to argue with yourself over that, because all of it is coming from you, not me. It's beyond me how you can add one plus one and come up with 35.6. Only you know how.

 

Good day.

Chaos is NOT an "industry standard".
Message 58 of 74
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Re: Every platform has problems


@gramophone-georg wrote:

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

@gramophone-georg wrote:

@castlemagicmemories wrote:

Are you seriously trying to say that Ebay is not hard enough on sellers?  That you think immediate expulsion due to a seller mishap is the answer?  That Ebay is too soft on sellers, and should be much more stringent in their policies and seller metrics?

 

They do give sellers more of a chance to work out their issues now than in the past, when they did boot far more quickly.  But you want to go back to that?

 


Where did you get that notion? Of course not. If you read what I wrote, I said that the idea that eBay's not in control of its own platform isn't logical.


You are focusing on one aspect and eliminating another.  If you state there is a proliferation of bad sellers and that is Ebay's fault because they are in control of their site, then logically, for Ebay to correct that problem, they have to be far stricter in their seller metrics to eliminate those bad sellers far quicker, possibly at the first offense by permanent suspending them.

 

With all due respect, while you did not say that explicitly, implicitly you did.  How else can Ebay correct the problem since it is their site and their responsibility without taking stronger stands in that regard.  You can't blame Ebay without agreeing to allowing them to take those stronger stands.


Please stop telling me what I'm saying, because your interpretation is not correct. Thanks.


I know that you feel my interpretation is not correct and I know and apologize for the fact that that was not what you were saying.  I was simply explaining why when you claim it is Ebay's responsibility, it follows, logically, that you want Ebay to take steps to eliminate those bad sellers that you are blaming on them.  For them to do that, they have to have stricter sanctions and metrics.  That's all.  Like the old saying goes, you can't have one without the other.  It makes no sense to blame them for not fulfilling their responsibility, and then say you don't want them to take stronger actions.

 

That's all.  No offense intended.  

Message 59 of 74
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Re: Every platform has problems

Ebay can't be blamed for the proliferation of bad sellers.

 

Did you not just tell us that eBay had to go away from "just a venue" and become a "managed marketplace" in order to control the proliferation of bad sellers?  And did you not just tell us that eBay has more bad sellers today than they did under "just a venue"? 

 

Yet, there is no way, no how, that the increase in bad sellers is eBay's fault? 

 

At best, you're playing semantics.  Yes, bad sellers are the fault of bad sellers.  But if eBay decides they have to jump in and "fix" that, and there are then more bad sellers than there were before, I don't see how you can assert that is anyone's fault but eBay's. 

 

Someone else suggested there is no change in the quantity of bad sellers.  But if users are encountering bad sellers more frequently, the only possible explanation for that is eBay's "fix" simply reduced the quantity of good sellers.  I can't speak to the entire site, but in the categories I deal with frequently this is exactly what has happened, as evidenced by my Saved Seller list.

 

 

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.
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