Ebay, you're "enhancing" us to death!

[forwardtechsurplus]

Every time ebay implements a fee increase they pitch it under the guise of "enhancing" our experience. What an absolute load.  I can't think of a single "enhancement" they've made in the last 10 years that resulted in any measurable benefit to my selling experience. In fact, most of the time it has only created headaches for me. This time they're touting their AI descriptions tool as an enhancement. What a joke. Those AI descriptions are terrible- they make the seller sound like a dimwitted foreign scammer trying to cobble together a paragraph that would pass as english. Near as I can tell these so-called "enhancements" are nothing more than excuses to raise our fees and line their pockets while we do the work. Ebay, do you know what would "enhance" my experience? LOWER FEES!

[mam98031]

@forwardtechsurplus 

All these people just accepting fee increases as "inevitable".   But when is it enough? 

I think it has been made clear by some posters that if you object to the increase of 0.35% to the FVF, then you don't have to.  You always have the right to stop selling here if you feel the need for whatever reason you have.  Selling here is a choice.

FVF increase is NOT the same as inflation or cost of living!!!  These fees are a percentage of our sales, and that's a very different concept.   Yes, inflation is inevitable, but ebay can make more money WITHOUT raising their fees, by virtue of the fact that the goods sold on their platform increase in price due to inflation.

That would really depend on the numbers, which  you nor anyone else here has access to.  But as you can see from many of the posts on this subject, many simply do not understand that Ebay's costs of doing business goes up all the time too.  Some actually think that the fees should be the same as they were 20 years ago.

FVFs are ebay's share of those sales. If fee increases are "inevitable", then you're also saying they're limitless. and therefore mathematically, they will eventually be 100%.

I've seen this said before.  And of course it is a bit silly.  It certainly would be a sure fire way to get rid of ALL your sellers and go bankrupt.  Usually this is said by those that simply don't understand the real cause and effect of what they are suggesting or ignore it as they are just trying to make a point.

Now, I understand they wouldn't get away with that, but honestly, where does it end?  Are you okay with 25%?  50%?   They are going to keep pushing it more and more every year, and sellers who shrug their shoulders and say "oh well, it's inevitable" are the frogs in the boiling water who make it possible for them to do that.

I think that is a far cry from the increase Ebay actually implemented a couple of days ago.  It is a huge exaggeration.  Even in Ebay's history they have never raised fees by that much.  So why are you exaggerating things?  Why not just stay within what has actually happened?  What purpose does it serve?  

Why not even recognize that for most categories, Ebay has not raised FVFs since mid 2020 for sellers as they entered Managed Payments.  Why no credit for that to Ebay?  They raised the fixed per transaction fee, but not FVFs.

[mam98031]

NO, YOU ARE WRONG. INFLATION AND FEE INCREASES ARE NOT THE SAME. 

Yelling at us simply isn't necessary.  I don't believe anyone but you has said that inflation and a fee increase is the same thing.  You are misrepresenting what I've said and others.  

Due to increase costs for Ebay they have had the need to raise our FVFs.  Ebay costs are affected by many things and one of them is inflation, just like the rest of us.  It affects us all.  Whether you agree or not, it is simply a fact.  

For me, even with this increase, pay LESS in fees than I did back in 2016 or so and forward.  Largely due to Ebay's fee structure changing.  All the Free listings we get is a big part of that decrease.  With a Basic store now, I can pretty much list whatever I want and I won't run out of my free listings.  But then there were things like giving us 12 free pictures, which we use to pay for, and now we get 24 free.  And other things.

For me, a 0.35% FVF increase is just not that big of a deal and I understand why Ebay needed to raise the rates.  I respect and understand not everyone will agree and that is fine.  We don't have to all agree.

[redlinear]

Enhancing.
Used to be able to create 50+ listings a day. 
Now 35 is about it 

[forwardtechsurplus]

I acknowledged that the 100% fee theory wasn't realistic in practice (even if mathematically true), but it illustrates the point that theoretically, there is no limit to the increases. So where does it end?  What percentage of our sales is fair compensation in exchange for using their platform?  Of course I understand we're not at 25% or higher yet, but again, I'm making a point. Sure, we're far enough away from 25% right now that it's easy for you to write me off as just spewing crazy rhetorical questions with no basis in reality, but you know darn well they're just going to keep taking a larger share until there's enough pushback. So yeah, it is kind of a rhetorical question, but it's also kind of serious. I mean, there has to be a line somewhere right? At some point between the current fee percentage, and 100%, there is a line where people who rely on ebay to make a living, won't be able to make a living anymore. That line exists.  Pointing out that the increases have been relatively small and slow is not persuasive. Implementing unjustified increases slowly does not somehow make them justified. You do have a point that none of us know the dynamics of ebay's cost of doing business. Well then my counterpoint would be that maybe they should be a little more transparent to their customers so we better understand why they think they need a bigger share of our sales.

And that gets back to the crux of my original argument:  that many of the enhancements they tout as justification for deserving a higher percentage, haven't really enhanced my overall selling experience that much. To me, it's more of a disingenuous excuse for the increases. In their explanation of the increases, they specifically called out the new AI description tool, but have you used it? It's terrible, and does not provide any increased value in their "product", as it were.

[mam98031]

---

@redlinear wrote:

Enhancing.
Used to be able to create 50+ listings a day. 
Now 35 is about it 

---

Would Templates assist you.  I find them invaluable to me.  I set up a template for each type of listing I create and put in all the common info like my TOS plus I set up ISBs [item specific boxes] that are useful to me.  I create the title of the ISB and then just put a character in the description box so that it will stick.

These save so much time for me.  

[mam98031]

I acknowledged that the 100% fee theory wasn't realistic in practice (even if mathematically true), but it illustrates the point that theoretically, there is no limit to the increases.

It isn't mathematically true or correct.  No site like Ebay could even get close to that number and expect to stay in business.  IMHO it is meant to just stir things up and cause unnecessary concern.

So where does it end?  What percentage of our sales is fair compensation in exchange for using their platform?  Of course I understand we're not at 25% or higher yet, but again, I'm making a point.....

For a 0.35% increase that doesn't even affect a lot of categories, your concerns are just over kill and unnecessary.  And as I said in my other post, Ebay's history does NOT show that do this kind of increases that you are asking us to be concerned about that might be down the road.  IMHO sellers need to concentrate on the changes afoot NOW, not some WHAT IF rate that may or may not ever happen.  IMHO it is a waste of time to do that and only serves to raise someone's blood pressure due to concern.  

Pointing out that the increases have been relatively small and slow is not persuasive.

Which is exactly how I feel about your speculations.  At least with mine it is supported by actual facts.  Yours is all speculation.

Implementing unjustified increases slowly does not somehow make them justified.

IDK what lead Ebay to this small increase in fees for some categories.  IDK it is "unjustified", that is an ASSUMPTION you are making without any facts.

You do have a point that none of us know the dynamics of ebay's cost of doing business. Well then my counterpoint would be that maybe they should be a little more transparent to their customers so we better understand why they think they need a bigger share of our sales.

You go first.  You start telling your buyers exactly how you arrive at your pricing.  Don't forget to give them your vendor names too.  Now I know that sounds silly, but so does you expecting Ebay to do that.  They do have public financial statements in which you can review anytime you feel the need because they are a publicly traded company.

And that gets back to the crux of my original argument:  that many of the enhancements they tout as justification for deserving a higher percentage, haven't really enhanced my overall selling experience that much. To me, it's more of a disingenuous excuse for the increases. In their explanation of the increases, they specifically called out the new AI description tool, but have you used it? It's terrible, and does not provide any increased value in their "product", as it were.

A fee increase is NOT an "enhancement".  

Now Ebay does come up with lots of changes to the site on a fairly regular basis and they rarely ever tell us about it before it happens.  A real annoyance to be sure and a pet peeve of mine I've shared with Ebay many times.

When Ebay makes some of these changes it is because of software updates or changes and they have to change things so that everything fits together.  This site is 30 years old this year.  So many technical changes have happened over the years that it simply is not possible for things to remain the same and continue to work.  That is exactly why we lost TurboLister.  It was an old program that just wouldn't work with the newer stuff.

Back to the fee increase.  I encourage everyone to look at the facts.  This link will show you EXACTLY which categories are affected at the bottom of the page.  Don't assume you know, it is worth a look.

https://www.ebay.com/sellercenter/resources/seller-updates/2025-january/final-value-fee

[chapeau-noir]

I prefer decoupling *enhancements* and *fee increases* (whatever eBay says).  To me, periodic fee increases, like postal increases, are inevitable. If they make it unwieldy for me to sell certain products or in certain markets, I change what I am going to sell. However, the enhancements here seem to be more dehancements, to coin a word. Sometimes they are done well, but usually not very, and sometimes are pretty appalling, even to someone like myself who is pretty handy with change. That I see no excuse for and that annoys me. Particularly when the word *magical* is thrown around.

[forwardtechsurplus]

It isn't mathematically true or correct.

Yes, continual increases do eventually add up to 100. That is how math works. And while I've acknowledged (twice) a 100% fee isn't realistic in practice, it is mathematically true because, well, you know, MATH. Again, extreme example to illustrate a point and pose the question:  When will their slice of the pie be big enough?

IMHO it is a waste of time to do that and only serves to raise someone's blood pressure due to concern.

You are the frog in the water that they count on to just take every increase smiling.

You go first.  You start telling your buyers exactly how you arrive at your pricing.

What kind of argument is this? Ebay isn't my customer. I'm not charging them anything. Thus they have no right or expectation to know, and I have no obligation to disclose, written or implied, reasonable or not, to any of those details about my business. On the other hand, as their customer, it is absolutely reasonable for me to expect some kind of cogent explanation as to why I need to pay them more for the service. If for no other reason than just the sake of standard business practices and relationships.

A fee increase is NOT an "enhancement".

Finally we agree on something! I never said they were. In fact I think it's clear from my post that I think of fees as the opposite of an "enhancement" (unless you don't understand sarcasm in my post title).

Buddy, this is not a productive conversation anymore. I made my points, you made yours. Neither of us are persuaded. It doesn't matter. We're done here. I do not wish to continue this debate with you. I know you'll respond and pick this apart sentence by sentence because you're just one of those people who can't resist the urge, but I'm not coming back to read it, I have way more important things to do.  Good day, and and best of luck with your ebay sales.

[mam98031]

You are Ebay's customer.  So if you think Ebay owes you all that detailed info, you go first and supply it to your customers.  

I agree, we are getting no where.  I respect your right to believe as you do.  I wish you nothing but the best.

FYI, I did not insult you, please don't do that to others just because you don't agree.  You should be able to have a civil conversation whether or not you agree with the other poster.

[meme6253]

Those were the days my friend we thought they'd never end.

[meme6253]

I only mentioned Trump because he basically falls into the same category i was talking about, The acceptance of everything without doing anything about it, Just zombified sheep falling in place, If people are unhappy with Trump they should be lighting up their congressmen's phone, Blowing up social Media with complaints, Picket Lines, Etc., & that goes the same to constant increases, if nothing ever gets done you just allow these things to continue until it becomes to late.

[forwardtechsurplus]

Several people, including you, have cited increases in the cost of goods on things like "milk, eggs, bread" as evidence that all things, including the fees, must increase. But those are examples of inflationary increases. So yes, people including yourself, are incorrectly equating the two.

Inflation affects both the cost of goods and their selling prices. As prices rise due to inflation, the total revenue generated from sales also increases. Since ebay's FVF is a percentage of the final sale price, their revenue naturally scales upward with inflation, without the need for an additional percentage increase. In essence, the same percentage commission on higher-priced goods results in higher absolute earnings for ebay.

By increasing the FVF percentage, they are not merely offsetting inflation but rather disproportionately increasing their share of each sale at the seller's expense. This places an undue burden on sellers, who are already facing the effects of inflation in other aspects of their business or personal finances. Instead of sharing the burden proportionally, the fee increase effectively shifts more of it onto sellers, who receive a reduced share of the final sale.