mam98031 • Volunteer Community Member • Buyer/Seller since 1999
@dbfolks166mt wrote:
If the item went through a FF a seller does not have to accept returns. If they do accept the buyer is responsible for getting the item back to the FF. The seller may need to provide the shipping label from the FF to the seller depending on the reason for the return. It is of NO benefit for a seller to accept a return on an item that goes through a FF.
The OP did not state what the buyer's reason for return was, but if it was an INAD or Arrived Damaged (effectively the same as INAD), then having 'no returns' wouldn't matter regardless of address and regardless of any suspicion the seller might have. There is no 'not accepting' an INAD return. And the kinds of buyers scammers who pull this carp are keenly aware of that, so even if a listing was 'no returns' they just make up a fake INAD reason. Even the requirement of including a photograph doesn't stop them. I just had one and their photograph was a crazy closeup of one of the blue plastic pebbles they sent back instead of the earrings with turquoise cabochons that they bought. I not only won that case but got them NARU'd within minutes of opening the return package.
If the item goes through a freight forwarder cone it arrives at the freight forwarder then the buyer looses their MBG coverage and a seller can refuse a return but has to provide details in the refusal that the item was delivered to a freight forwarder. The following is from the eBay MBG policy.
But their item was NOT forwarded, not sent to another address.
As the OP stated: "I sent the item and then the same day as delivery the buyer sends in a photo of another item and request a return. " In other words it just went to the FF's address and did not get forwarded. Also when it's an INAD return there isn't even a mechanism to "refuse" it. They automatically get the return label and the return is already "underway" as far as eBay is concerned.
This thing with a buyer doing a return for an item as soon as it reaches the FF is starting to appear to be the new scam, or it's new to me anyway because I just got one earlier this month. What I wonder is, does the foreign buyer just have a buddy who works in the US FF facility who is willing to pack and ship back the garbage .... or is the buyer an employee themselves? Could be either I guess.
Here was mine, and what was extra messed up was the buyer was a moron and filed the return several hours before the package was even delivered to the FF address!!! You can skip to about message 32 if you want to see the conclusion (it was pretty awesome).
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Beyond-Bizarre-Return/td-p/34619838/page/3
But I started a whole separate thread during that time, to raise the very question of how to get protection from FF returns. That was how I learned that it depends on whether the package was actually forwarded or not.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/When-how-can-a-seller-get-eBay-to-honor-policy-against-FF-d/td...
But their item was NOT forwarded, not sent to another address.
As the OP stated: "I sent the item and then the same day as delivery the buyer sends in a photo of another item and request a return. " In other words it just went to the FF's address and did not get forwarded. Also when it's an INAD return there isn't even a mechanism to "refuse" it. They automatically get the return label and the return is already "underway" as far as eBay is concerned.
This thing with a buyer doing a return for an item as soon as it reaches the FF is starting to appear to be the new scam, or it's new to me anyway because I just got one earlier this month. What I wonder is, does the foreign buyer just have a buddy who works in the US FF facility who is willing to pack and ship back the garbage .... or is the buyer an employee themselves? Could be either I guess.
Here was mine, and what was extra messed up was the buyer was a moron and filed the return several hours before the package was even delivered to the FF address!!! You can skip to about message 32 if you want to see the conclusion (it was pretty awesome).
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Beyond-Bizarre-Return/td-p/34619838/page/3
But I started a whole separate thread during that time, to raise the very question of how to get protection from FF returns. That was how I learned that it depends on whether the package was actually forwarded or not.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/When-how-can-a-seller-get-eBay-to-honor-policy-against-FF-d/td...
If this trend continues eBay may have to refine the policy. It has been a LONG time since I had to fight one of the FF NAD issues and I believe it took me 2-3 months to finally resolve and prevail in the case. Most of those issues were caused by the automated processes you referred to. Unless you have your returns setup to automatically issue the return shipping label you have options when you receive a NAD, or at least you used to have.
The fact that the buyer is the one that sent the picture of a different item implies they have received it. Who knows what happens to an item after it hits the FF. The interesting thing is this process could easily work in reverse. A seller could sell, lets say a cell phone, and prior to shipping identify that the item is going through a freight forwarder and rather than shipping the high dollar cell phone simply ship a piece of xxxx phone in it's place. Not that any seller would ever do that.
I am so sorry this happened to you. You have to feel so awful and frustrated. My heart goes out to you, I would be very upset if this happened to me, not to mention the financial loss which is very important too.
Because this was likely a Freight Forwarding company really has nothing to do with this scam working. If the filed the case the same day, the auto accepted claim label would have been issued to the address in which you shipped the items too. So while some are making this about the FF, it really isn't. It wouldn't have mattered where it was shipped to in the US, if the person on the receiving end was a THIEF!
First thing you need to do is contact Fedex and get as much information IN WRITING as you can. Carriers now take pics of their packages all along the route the package goes. So you want the pic and the specs on the package. Size and weight being of the utmost importance. And anything else that Fedex is willing to give you. Just be polite and tell them your story.
Contact FedEx Fraud and Security Controls at 1-866-729-9728 or Global Security at fraudprevention@fedex.com. I would call them first and see how much help you can get from them. It is possible that they already have other complains regarding the same address. It is a Federal Crime to use a carrier as part of committing a fraud.
Then appeal the Ebay decision giving them the evidence you have gotten. You should win the appeal.
Make sure you report the buyer for abusing the return system. That is very important to make sure you do that.
I hope you will consider doing this and come back and update us on how things went for you. I wish you nothing but the best.
@cambriachick wrote:Did you use problem with buyer's address as your reason for cancellation?
The OP didn't know there was going to be a problem. They shipped to the buyer, then the problems happened.
Once you ship an item, it is NOT advisable to use the Cancellation Process. It just isn't suited for that and could cause you to get a Defect that no one needs.
@anchorsup wrote:Literally just got a big order from him. I searched the address and found your post. I’m all too familiar about Ebay‘s return policy and the automatic shipping label **bleep**. I've canceled the order thanks to you taking the time to alert us. Thank you for that!
What reason did you use @anchorsup when you cancelled the order?
When a seller approves an INAD, then yes a return label is issued IF the seller has a return policy to pay for return shipping.
@saulierohman wrote:I just came across this thread after googling the address of a recent purchase identical to the Portland address listed. I am new to eBay and am unfamiliar with the cancellation process. I have yet to send the item, but after reading these complaints, I would like to cancel the order. How can this be done?
Don't over react. The address stated on this thread was for a business that does Freight Forwarding. The company is NOT who scammed anyone. It was a buyer that hired them to reship items to them at an international address. The FF is NOT doing anything wrong. It was the Buyer that did.
The vast majority of transactions shipping from the seller to a FF go just fine. However like any other type of transaction, sometimes there are bad buyers. Don't assume that every transaction is going to be a problem or you will drive yourself crazy. You have no reason to cancel this transaction. No proof the buyer is or will do something wrong. Don't ASSUME stuff. That is the quickest way to get yourself in trouble.
My advice to you is ship the item within your stated handling time, ship with tracking, if you don't buy your shipping label through Ebay, then make sure you upload the tracking number to the order on the same day as you ship it. Package the item well. No air space the the box or the item could end up broken. But well packed so it can't move around at all inside the packaging.
