Ebay and Paypal ruled in my favor than buyer did a chargeback and committed mail fraud

[pbc2001]

I sold a $2,495 item on eBay on Nov 12, 2017. The buyer paid and received the item on Dec 2.2017. He filed an item not receved case on eBay and he lost when it was proven he received it. He than filed an SNAD on eBay and again eBay ruled in my favor. He than filed a SNAD through Paypal and Paypal ruled in my favor. On 1/16/2018, he did a chargback through his bank and Paypal gave him back his money. He stated he would mail the item back to me. On 1/18/2018 I received an envelope from the buyer at my UPS Store. I had the UPS store manager open the package while I filmed it being opened.....the package was EMPTY. I sent the video over to Paypal, but they did nothing and allowed the chargeback.  What do I do now????? I am out the item and the buyer has got his money back 

[vintagecraze50]

This case had a lot of info that could have been used sucessfully to win the chargeback. First it started as an INR claim. The seller stated that the item took awhile to get there becuase the buyer did not pay for this item and let it sit for awhile--PROBABLY PURPOSEFULLY- so it would not arrive quickly so they could make a INR claim before it arrived--not 100 percent sure of this but from what I gathered from the OP's post--the buyer stalled the payment and he was about ready to do a unpaid item. 

Pay Pal could look at the buyers history and seen that he has all of those negs and a not too great record--that could have been reported to the CC company. The seller, I believe has an outstanding record.   The INR and then a Snad is just double dipping into the scam.

[couldabeenworse]

This case had a lot of info that could have been used sucessfully to win the chargeback.

The only thing relevant to the chargeback is whether or not the coin was as described.  All that other stuff doesn't change that, even if it makes one party look shady.

[ted_200]

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@couldabeenworsewrote:

This case had a lot of info that could have been used sucessfully to win the chargeback.

The only thing relevant to the chargeback is whether or not the coin was as described.  All that other stuff doesn't change that, even if it makes one party look shady.

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Well, this is where the rubber meets the road, and any discussion about evidence, fair, or reality, goes right down the toilet.  IF (and I don't see that explicitly stated here anywhere) the buyer is saying they received a counterfeit coin in a counterfeit slab, but the listing showed a real coin in a real slab, then that's a legitimate SNAD claim.  When that happens, eBay / PayPal says "we have no way of knowing the seller didn't send a counterfeit" (instead of what was in his listing photo) so it's "he said/she said" = seller loses.   So it appears the buyer is claiming they got the item in the listing, but that the item is misrepresented as an authentic coin - that is something that CAN be disproven definitively.

Re: the chargeback, I do NOT believe that is all that is relevant.  If the buyer is clearly demonstrated to have engaged in a fraudulent scheme by mailing back an empty envelope and saying he's returned the item, and the merchant of record presents that to the credit card company, I seriously doubt the credit card company is going to approve the chargeback.  If they allowed this sort of activity, merchants would refuse to take their credit cards.  The problem is that the "merchant of record" here (PayPal) didn't do anything to defend the chargeback.  And they already essentially admitted they knew this was a scam (and not a bad seller) when they denied the MBG and PP BP claims for "not as described". 

[pbc2001]

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@couldabeenworsewrote:

I  was also wondering if you and this buyer had any previous history?

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No, I have never had any prior history with this guy.

[pbc2001]

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@pbc2001wrote:
So far, I have now opened a complaint against Paypal to the BBB case#601792, opened a mail fraud complaint to the USPIS, contacted my local news station and filed a police report against Paypal. They said I needeed to go after Paypal as the bank merchant is kept unknown to me by Paypal. If anyone else has any other ideas, let me know please.

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The Police in Tinley Park, IL have told me they can't do a police report there and they directed me to the IC3 online website to fill out a complaint form. I guess this is my last chance to get the item or money returned to me.

      Paypal wrote me the following:

Dear xxxxx,

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

Unfortunately, in order to accept credit cards as a funding source PayPal has to abide by their rules and regulations. PayPal had no further recourse with which to dispute and the credit card company's decision was final. We were unable to win this dispute because the information provided to us was not sufficient for the credit card company to rule in our favor.

The buyer claimed that they attempted to return the merchandise back to you but you refused to accept it. In certain situations and for certain credit card issuers this is the only information that is required from their customers. 

I informed Paypal that is a LIE. The buyer sent a USPS Priority Mail package to me on 1/17/18. It was opened by a UPS Store Manager and I FILMED it being opened. IT WAS EMPTY. I have sent you the video providing this PROOF. The USPS Tracking Number was 9505512148547363138051.

[ted_200]

The buyer claimed that they attempted to return the merchandise back to you but you refused to accept it.

LOL.  The tracking number doesn't say "refused", it says "Delivered".   This claim is easily disprovable - even without any video evidence - had PayPal bothered to do so.

[ted_200]

You were scammed.  There were accomplices. 

[rarecoinguy]

The media should be contacted

[pbc2001]

** UPDATE **

I contacted NBC news last week. They agreed to handle this case.

I just received an email from Paypal on this matter, they said they are giving me a (1) time credit of $1,571.18. (that is the amount I was in arears in my account)

Completed
PayPal
Transfer
Mar23
2018

PayPal

Transfer
Loading transaction details for
PayPal

Transfer
+  $1,571.18 
Close

There is an open dispute associated with this transaction. Visit the Resolution Center to view status.

Paid byPayPalTransaction ID0FC96356443641447
Note from PayPal$1,571.18 USD;PayPal Posting Date:Mar 22, 2018;Payment from:Paypal;As a one-time goodwill gesture, we have issued a credit to your account. Thank you for using PayPal.

I guess it's better than nothing, but, I'm still out $920 that was previously removed from my account by Paypal and given to eBayer . I am quite certain that Hector from NBC News did something to convince Paypal they are in the wrong. I'm not happy, but, I don't know if there's anything else I can do.

[papermoneyforme]

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@pbc2001wrote:

I sold a $2,495 item on eBay on Nov 12, 2017. The buyer paid and received the item on Dec 2.2017. He filed an item not receved case on eBay and he lost when it was proven he received it. He than filed an SNAD on eBay and again eBay ruled in my favor. He than filed a SNAD through Paypal and Paypal ruled in my favor. On 1/16/2018, he did a chargback through his bank and Paypal gave him back his money. He stated he would mail the item back to me. On 1/18/2018 I received an envelope from the buyer at my UPS Store. I had the UPS store manager open the package while I filmed it being opened.....the package was EMPTY. I sent the video over to Paypal, but they did nothing and allowed the chargeback.  What do I do now????? I am out the item and the buyer has got his money back 

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Use the Luigi and Guido Collection Agency

[pbc2001 · Accepted solution]

Just got off the phone with NBC and Paypal. Paypal has returned ALL the money ($2,495) that they helped steal from me...............Now we all know how to deal with Paypal if they try to commit fraud/crime against us, contact NBC and they will get your money back for you, everything else was a waste of time. Thank you all for your help/advise. 

[pbc2001]

OMG......WOW.....Just received the following email 

"Hello, do you know Its ok to do business like you do on E-Bay that's ok but you can not do what you are doing on your you tube account if you do not remove the **bleep** movie you put out on there I will sue you in federal court. And if I find out you are working with or for E-Bay I will sue them to. So you do not want that to happen. I will go to the white house and go to the NYSE. SO REMOVE ALL THE THINGS YOU PUT ON YOU TUBE. I WILL CALL THE POST MASTER GENERAL ON YOU. NOW ITS UP TO YOU TO FIX YOUR MESS"

[ted_200]

LOL!  I love it when a plan comes together.

[jonathankirkland]

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@pbc2001 wrote:

OMG......WOW.....Just received the following email from XXXX aka XXXXX........Apparently, she is insane. lol:

"Hello, do you know Its ok to do business like you do on E-Bay that's ok but you can not do what you are doing on your you tube account if you do not remove the **bleep** movie you put out on there I will sue you in federal court. And if I find out you are working with or for E-Bay I will sue them to. So you do not want that to happen. I will go to the white house and go to the NYSE. SO REMOVE ALL THE THINGS YOU PUT ON YOU TUBE. I WILL CALL THE POST MASTER GENERAL ON YOU. NOW ITS UP TO YOU TO FIX YOUR MESS"

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Unfortunately, you are not allowed to "name and shame" so to speak, even if the person is the scum of the Earth you're not allowed to call anyone out on the forums with their real name and/or username.

[jonathankirkland]

Glad it all worked out tho and I will keep this in mind in the future!