Ebay Standard Envelope, To Block or Not to Block?

[stanley_vermin]

I buy and sell mtg cards. I sell cards I would otherwise be unable to sell because of the ebay standard label. If you sell using it you know that it sucks because you can't hand it to someone to scan, you can't scan it yourself and USPS has a less than 50% scan rate. Now you get some people that aren't honest and if it doesn't scan they ask for a refund. In the last 6 years I have received every thing I have purchased with the ebay standard label except for 1 item that was $1.99. The seller was someone I had talked to and bought from me before. I messaged them and declined there refund offer. I have bought from them since that happened and sometimes they give me a discount. I likely have been fortunate. I know on a rare occasion stuff will get lost and somethings I bought have shown up 5 weeks later. When stuff has been late I message the seller to see if they have further info and also to develop relationships with sellers so I know who to buy from again. I have always had people be courteous and helpful towards me.

On a recent batch of envelopes I dropped off none of them were scanned. After I got a dispute request I messaged a few of the others and they said they showed up promptly. The next day I got another dispute request. Looking back at some of the other disputes they have all happened right when the 30 days is about up. I have had 8 of these in the last 2 years. I have 100% good feedback because I ship very quickly and the cards I sell are in good condition. I don't want to lose customers but I also don't want to get ripped off because the system that lets me sell lower value cards and lets people buy lower value cards has flaws. It feels pretty crappy to lose a card and the cost of shipping. Had they messaged me before opening a case I wouldn't have this dilemma.

Do I block them? Do I need to change how I see this situation? What are your thoughts?

[luckythewinner]

I have had 8 of these in the last 2 years

Do I block them? Do I need to change how I see this situation? What are your thoughts?

I see 214 sales in the last 90 days, which roughly suggests ~1700 sales over two years and a loss rate of 0.45%. Raising your prices by 1% would probably cover that.

I also don't want to get ripped off because the system that lets me sell lower value cards and lets people buy lower value cards has flaws.

eBay itself is "flawed" because generally speaking any immoral buyer can steal any item by filing a fraudulent SNAD dispute. Having a goal of never getting ripped off on eBay is unrealistic IMHO. 

[wastingtime101]

You know how to file insurance claims on those, right @stanley_vermin ? You can recover the cost of the cards (less shipping).

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/shipping-items/setting-shipping-options/ebay-standard-envelope?id=...

As for whether or not to block the buyers - that's a personal call. Do you get scammer vibes from the buyers? Unless there was some kind of red flag from the buyer I would not block them the first time, but if they claimed the same thing a second time I would block them.

[itsjustasprain]

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@stanley_vermin wrote:

I buy and sell mtg cards. I sell cards I would otherwise be unable to sell because of the ebay standard label. If you sell using it you know that it sucks because you can't hand it to someone to scan, you can't scan it yourself and USPS has a less than 50% scan rate.

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Not sure where you found that 50% statistic because you may be comparing apples to oranges. Ebay standard envelopes do not use tracking barcodes like on packages so there is no Acceptance or Delivered scan to be made. ESE mailings use routing codes instead. Those are read by machine at sort facilities along the way and the last one at the destination is assumed to be delivery.

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@stanley_vermin wrote:

I don't want to lose customers but I also don't want to get ripped off because the system that lets me sell lower value cards and lets people buy lower value cards has flaws. It feels pretty crappy to lose a card and the cost of shipping. Had they messaged me before opening a case I wouldn't have this dilemma.

Do I block them? Do I need to change how I see this situation? What are your thoughts?

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Nowhere do you mention that you can seek restitution from Ebay for a lost ESE mailing - did you know you can do that? You will need to refund a buyer who files a claim for a missing ESE but then you can go to Ebay who will cover up to $20 for each missing mailing.

[stanley_vermin]

They have to be scanned to be able to make a claim.

[wastingtime101]

If you can show you refunded the buyers, then file the claims.

[stanley_vermin]

Looking at all of my ese sales less than 50% actually scan.

I may be missing something but unless they actually get scanned you can't get insurance.

[wastingtime101]

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@stanley_vermin wrote:

Looking at all of my ese sales less than 50% actually scan.

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Common reasons ESE envelopes don't get scans include:
- Overpacking. Envelopes are too stiff. It's not recommended to use trading card top loaders or cardboard mailers.
- Placement of label. Label should be placed in the upper right corner with approx 1/8"-1/4" clearance from edges. If it's placed too far from the corner the machinery won't scan it.
- Placing items in the center of the envelope instead of off to the side. The center of the envelope needs to be the most flexible part.
- Printer ink is not dark enough, or label color is too bright (stick to white labels if you can).

[12345jamesstamps]

I think some people are missing the point.

Although, yea, you can get refunded by using  ESE with some "footwork"...like I guess some people have all the time in the world for that kind of stuff.

Realistically, have these ESE actually been lost or are buyers being dishonest?

I don't use ESE and I'm going on 2 years not losing anything in the mail.

So...are more ESE being lost in the mail than envelopes with a stamp on it?

And using ESE taking longer than using an envelope with a stamp on it?

My stamp envelopes make it cross-country 3-4 days to the buyers per some feedbacks.

If we basically sell the same items shouldn't it be "repeat buyers" we want?...and make them happy?

As far as blocking ESE buyers who claim item not received...I would look at these buyers feedbacks and buyer ID...if you see some type of pattern the buyer should be blocked.

[thelongball]

I use a lot of ESU and 99% of mine get scanned. I use a top loader and I make sure I put it in the middle of a regular 9 x 5 business size envelope. I use scotch tape to make sure the card stays in the middle. The envelope bends where it is supposed to. On the receiving end is where I have seen issues though. Sellers who use heavy cardboard mailers, padded envelope ( yes they have tried it) , and other crazy ways. I've gotten them but they came with no scans. And sometimes postage due. When this program first rolled out I was on the Beta testing. eBay sent me a sample and asked me to confirm I got it. I did and it was packaged just like all mine go out. I have only had one damaged piece in a couple years and yes I received the insurance payment on it. The only real snag is the scan that appears upon delivery means it was at the customers receiving post office. It isn't scanned at the door. So it could show up at the door in a day or 2 after the scan. I really believe in the system and all should work fine if you use it the way intended.  Don't try to reinvent the wheel over it. The only thing that can cause grief is porch pirates. And we can't do anything about that no matter what we do. 

[tobaccocardyahoo]

ESE is primarily used to sell items which are uneconomical to sell or ship with a tracked service.

It has problems as the OP says.

It has more problems based on what is in the envelope and how the seller packs.

Using it is a totally economic decision.

My decision is not to sell items for $1.99 or $2.99 with free shipping. This is where a large number of the OPs sales are.

There is no solution to the problem these cheap products cause. Pack them to minimize damage and they do not get scanned and loss and false claims of loss increase. Pack them inadequately, they get scanned and you get enough damage to make you appear to be an unreliable seller.

I believe one needs to know the rules of the game. Once you know the rules, you can decide whether you will play or not.

I will not play the ESE game.

[1786davycrockett · Accepted solution]

@stanley_vermin 

The easiest way to ensure that your ESEs will receive that initial "acceptance" scan, is to simply drop the ESEs into the "metered mail" slot in the post office lobby.  At the end of the day, all those pre-sorted "metered mail" envelopes are shipped to the next USPS Distribution Center, where they are immediately fed into the automatic high-speed sorting machines, where they receive that initial scan.

Do NOT hand the ESEs to the USPS counter clerk, or a USPS delivery carrier (they can't "scan" the ESEs anyway -- and some USPS employees actually believe that the ESEs are phony). 

Also, do NOT mail the ESEs in a USPS "blue box," or your residential mail box, or a business mailing system.  These other methods will generally slow down delivery, and the ESEs may never receive that initial scan.

I've been dropping my ESEs into the "metered mail" slots in my post office lobby for over 2 years, with NO "lost" ESEs, and NO complaints from buyers.

Easy-peasy.

[12345jamesstamps]

Most post offices have more than one slot.

[dirk12955]

My PO does not have a metered box for drop-off

I sell stamps.   On a good month I'll ship 400 orders using the ESUS system.    I have very few issues 

with this system.   Occasionally I'll get a buyer bugging me because something got scanned as delivered and hadn't been.  So I take 30 seconds to explain the system and how the scanning is done,  usually a day or 2 before the actual delivery.   And that usually is the end of it.

I pay no attention,   That's ZERO minutes a month watching these items get scanned or not get scanned.   Don't care.   Don't matter.

All I care about is that they get delivered.    And out of 400 sales,    399 of them do.   

[lesegouts]

We only have one slot here.