Does anyone know of a case where ebay refused a buyer return request?

[tabsaw]

I sold a Word Perfect for Linux boxed software still sealed in clear wrap and brand new.  I also state in my sales that 'Returns Not Accepted'.  The little guy who bought it opened it (of course) and possible copied it, and then start complaining that it wouldn't install on his Linux configured computer (which is a big variable).  It was $24 with free shipping.  He opens a case with ebay and lies saying he didn't get what he ordered.  Ebay closes the case in his favor in about 5 minutes.  My question - I believe that ebay would allow buyers to return a brick for a refund, and is there really ANY reason to put in your ad that 'returns are not accepted' other then to maybe discourage a few people?  Seems to me, it makes no difference at all.  I sold a reel to reel tape recorder to someone about 10 years ago, and checked it all out before boxing.  Seller says it doesn't work right and ebay allows him to return for refund (about $500).  I get a box with a bag of landscraping rocks in it of about similar weight!  Ebay, in my opinion, has become a place for criminal buyers!  I'm not a business, just a hobbyist who sells various things from time to time.  

[marnotom!]

The “return” option you have when creating your listing is only in reference to remorse returns.

Returns related to the Money Back Guarantee are a different ball of wax.

My thoughts on having a “no returns” policy are that it will generally drive away many of the nice, cooperative buyers you’re looking for and leave you with a lot more who don’t notice your policy or couldn’t care less about it and will cause problems.

[ittybitnot]

I believe that ebay would allow buyers to return a brick for a refund....

@tabsaw 

Yes, and you pay for the return shipping of same.  It has been that way for years.   There is no seller protection for "faulty returns".  

[mr_lincoln · Accepted solution]

Hi @tabsaw 

Okay, something doesn't seem right here about the "case" the Buyer filed.

The Buyer said he did not get what he ordered, does that mean he filed a claim that he did not receive the item?  If so, if you uploaded valid tracking you would win that case.

If the Buyer filed a claim that the item was not as described, does not match pictures or description then you have two choices, Accept the return and the Buyer has to ship it back or decline the return request, in which case the Buyer can ask eBay to step in and refund their money and let them keep the item.

Unless eBay is testing a new return claim setting on select accounts that use the No returns accepted setting and are simply refunding Buyers for one or more reasons there are details missing with what actually happened.

I am of the opinion that not accepting returns has its place but should not be used as a general return policy for all categories.  I have used Free 30 day returns for years without being overrun by returns.  I get the full benefit of eBay's Seller protections when needed or when they apply:  Seller protections | eBay

eBay has several work arounds for the No returns accepted setting and experienced Buyers know how to use the system.

Any additional facts about what happened would be greatly appreciated.

[tabsaw]

Mr_Lincoln,

First, I do not understand what it is about this case that you feel is missing information.  Do you work for ebay?

1.  A brand new, sealed in clear wrap, never opened Word Perfect for Linux by Corel was sold for $18 plus $6.50 shipping on April 9th

2.  Around April 20, buyer wrote me and asked told he was having problems getting it to install on his computer running Linux (Linux has many versions and is for experienced IT people and is not something as consumer friendly as Windows).

3.  Next day he writes me and tells me if the CD could be defective?  That's when I knew where things were headed.

4.  Then 2 days later, sure enough, I get a return request. 

5.  Buyer stated that 'Wrong Item was Sent' and then later messaged me that this was the only thing he could find as a reason to return.  Then in the details, he states this '"As mentioned to the seller, although it s supposed to be a Word Perfect version for my Linux operating system, I was unable to install it on my my computer." 

6.  Then, in a message to me about the case, he states...

"If you look at possible return categories , there is NO category which fits what I have described to you, so I picked the closest one, which clearly (as you made clear) did not fit well. The point is that this CD is of no value to me - I did not copy it. As stated, I followed the instructions, successfully logged in as root and then followed the instructions both from the written info, plus from my computer expert, which were identical. I got an error message. Isn t it possible this CD is defective?"

7.  His message above proves that he got the right item otherwise he wouldn't be trying to install it, AND he would have known it was the wrong item from the day he opened the box, not 3 weeks later!

8.  Then I get this from ebay....but my item PERFECTLY 100% MATCHED THE DESCRIPTION!  The buyer even posted a photo of the box!

The item the buyer wants to return is covered by our  ebay Money Back Guarantee, which lets buyers request returns for items they say don’t match the listing description, even when sellers don’t accept returns.

9.  Today, I'm notified that ebay decided the case in favor of the buyer and I have to refund the item and the shipping after he pays shipping to return it.  What will I get back?  A USED UNSEALED ITEM at best!

Now, you tell me what you find missing.  This is the typical course of action for all these scandalous returns for spoiled customers.  But WalMart won't even return for refund a digital item (music and software) that has been opened!!!

[adamcartwright]

When a buyer looks at a "no returns" listing, the MBG notice is literally right next to it, at least when I'm shopping. If a buyer is actually nice and cooperative, that should be enough.

But I get what you're saying -- nice, cooperative people still often want to return for remorse or "I didn't check the measurements to see if it would fit before I bought it."

[tabsaw]

Mr Lincoln, I'm waiting to see how 'it seems' to you now that I've given all the details?

[tabsaw]

You might have a point in the last point, but I sure didn't understand the first 2 sentences about the return option only applying to buyer's remorse?  I didn't even know there was a category for that?  MBG?  I thought that 'Returns Not Accepted' meant NO MBG?

[marnotom!]

---

@tabsaw wrote:

You might have a point in the last point, but I sure didn't understand the first 2 sentences about the return option only applying to buyer's remorse?  I didn't even know there was a category for that?  MBG?  I thought that 'Returns Not Accepted' meant NO MBG?

---

Nope.  In the "return policy" section of the listing pages for your items, it does say, "Seller does not accept returns" but there's a note on the bottom that states that "You [i.e. the buyer] are covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee if you receive an item that is not as described in the listing."

Buyers are not covered by the Money Back Guarantee for items that don't suit them or for items they've changed their mind about after delivery.  Those are the types of returns that you can accept or not accept as a seller.

What sometimes happens, though, is that unscrupulous buyers will abuse the Money Back Guarantee in order to return an item that doesn't suit them or they've changed their mind about, and my thoughts are that you're going to see more of those sorts of returns if you don't accept remorse returns.

Having said that, you shouldn't be seeing many returns if you're setting up your listings clearly and you have good customer service.  I hope your treatment of one of the other posters on this thread isn't indicative of how you deal with customer service issues.

[kensgiftshop]

No, No Returns is only for remorse returns, like didn't like it, doesn't fit, found one cheaper.

[itemresa]

@tabsaw 

Listing an item as no returns accepted does not negate the eBay MBG.

[inhawaii]

If it's not a remorse return, you only have 2 options.

#1) Refund the buyer and let him keep the item.

#2) Accept the return, pay for return shipping, refund he buyer when you get the item back.

There is not much else to tell you.

And yes, ebay will let a buyer return a brick ... if he claims it is defective.

[ittybitnot]

..but my item PERFECTLY 100% MATCHED THE DESCRIPTION! ...

@tabsaw 

That does not matter.  What does matter is what the buyer chose from the dropdown menu when filing the claim.  At that point your description and photos have no value and will not be considered.  It is an automated process with quite predictable results.  

Either you accept the return and provide return shipping (and hope you get YOUR item back)  or refund the buyer and let them keep it for free. 

Or 

eBay will do it for you, award your account the nasty defect, and either charge a return label to you or allow the buyer to keep the product for free.  

It is the same process if the buyer filed a claim stating the 'tire was flat' and you sold them a hammer. The only thing that matters is what the buyer chooses from the return menu. 

[ckimodog]

@tabsaw 

Very sorry for your situation.  If  you have been on eBay for 10 years, you should know that NO returns, does not mean no refunds.  As sellers, we live in difficult times because anyone can steal from us and there is no recourse in many cases.  My suggestion is to accept returns with providing a label to the buyer.  If they return, they'll get the refund & you can re sell.  If not they can't open another case.  But then there's always the CC chargeback.  It's becoming harder for good sellers, who are honest & professional.  It's your choice to decide if you want to continue given all your unfortunate experiences.  

I wish you well regardless. 

All the best

[inhawaii]

I just wanted to add...

Returns like this, about 50% of the time, even if you accept the return, the buyer does not sends the item back.  No return = No refund.