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Do The Math

Lets say a seller wants to profit $10,000 per month.

 

conditions:

sale price of widget = $35

Cost of Widget = $25

_________________________

Gross Profit = $10

 

eBay fee per widget = $3.25

Paypal fee per widget = $1.32

Shipping Fee per widget = $4.00

__________________________________

Expense per each widget = $8.57

 

 

 

Gross Profit per widget  $10.00

- Expense per widget      $8.57

_____________________________________

Net Profit before taxes = $1.43 for each widget

 

So to make $10,000 profit per month you must sell 7000 widgets per month

 

to sell 7000 widgets per month you must stock about 14000 widgets.

14000 widgets x $25 = $350,000 of inventory.

 

So who has $350,000 to stock the warehouse ?

And who can sell 7000 widgets per month ?

 

This does not include the 30 day  Free returns that eBay wants us to do.

This does not take into account any employee wages either.

 

And what happens when eBay cathes a "cold" and does something majorly stupid that costs sellers dearly in lost sales ?

 

 

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Re: Do The Math


@lasantino wrote:

for me,  I couldn't possibly stay in business if i had the profit margins the OP described.. I try and sell my items at least 5X what i paid for them.. after i pay shipping(which i include in the price), ebay fees, paypal fees, and factor in the returns, where i am out the original shipping,, plus my fixed warehouse costs.,, i actually net only 2 or 3 times what i paid.. 

remember, not every item a seller lists is going to sell right away.. (within 30 days).. so the cost to aquire that item is also a cost of doing business.. 

 

now if I was absolutely certain i could sell ever item i purchased within 30 days,, i would be able to charge a lower markup... but its kind of impossible to be absolutely certain about anything.. especially with ebay constantly changing the search results and thus buyers can't even find the items they are looking for..

 


Yes, my 30% profit is my absolute minimum factored after all expenses have been taken into consideration. AKA my starting price here on eBay. And at the B&M's I consider my rent per square foot as part of my expenses. I factor rent on the size of the item and give it 2 months to sell. With the exception of a few pieces that I frankly wouldn't mind keeping for my own after 2 months it switches shops or gets listed on line. 

 

Motto: If I have to dust it it has been idle too long.

 

Meaning if it is dusty at the B&M then it is obvious that no one is interested, it needs a new market. 

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Re: Do The Math

Before China-based sellers got shipping subsidies from USPS and basically took over eBay (in the days when eBay was still an entrepreneurial venue for US-based sellers), I used to buy good quality items at distress sales for less than a dollar and sell them for $5 to $20 (sometimes more), and even at those prices, the buyers were getting a good deal compared to retail.

 

Similar items (not as well made, but they look similar) now ship from China for $2 to $4 with "free" shipping, so I gave up selling them.



These days I'm basically clearing out inventory and doing a few personalized products and earning most of my money from contract work. I no longer recommend eBay as a selling venue to my friends (in the early days I did so quite frequently).

Message 32 of 70
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Re: Do The Math

Even if I only wanted to make $1,000/month, I wouldn't buy for $25 and sell for $35, and I surely wouldn't give away free shipping.

That's bordering on running a charity.
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Re: Do The Math

For years I was saying on the forum that sellers need to mark up at least 10 times and I was raked over the coals for that, but if you do the math AND if you count your time, that's the minimum you need to mark up to actually make money.


Buy for a dollar, sell for ten, twenty is better, but ten is minimum.

 

Most eBay sellers don't count their time. There are a lot of people looking for extra pocket money or who are retired, on pensions, and they say out front they don't count their time. There are also many who are selling things they don't use any more and simply trying to recoup a bit of what they originally paid, but if you are trying to earn a living or run at least a minimal business, the markup needs to be 10x or more. It's not quite a linear scale, the markup can be less on higher-priced items, but if it's in the under-$60 category, you really need to go for 10x.

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Re: Do The Math


@namtrag1 wrote:

Must be nice to get your inventory for free.  How do you get your cost of a widget to be ZERO?

I hope your not suggesting that you acquire your widgets unethically.


I don't know about others, but I get my free items by recognizing value in things that other people give away.

 

I see nothing unethical about that. 

 

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Re: Do The Math


@gopetersen wrote:

For years I was saying on the forum that sellers need to mark up at least 10 times and I was raked over the coals for that, but if you do the math AND if you count your time, that's the minimum you need to mark up to actually make money.


Buy for a dollar, sell for ten, twenty is better, but ten is minimum.

 

Most eBay sellers don't count their time. There are a lot of people looking for extra pocket money or who are retired, on pensions, and they say out front they don't count their time. There are also many who are selling things they don't use any more and simply trying to recoup a bit of what they originally paid, but if you are trying to earn a living or run at least a minimal business, the markup needs to be 10x or more. It's not quite a linear scale, the markup can be less on higher-priced items, but if it's in the under-$60 category, you really need to go for 10x.


The 10x math will never work for the retail sellers who are buying higher dollar merchandise wholesale to sell retail.  Thanks to race to the bottom pricing ebay encourages and the Asian infiltration of manufactured new merchandise, a basic retailer is lucky to get 2 times what they have in it before expenses.  Especially if they are selling items priced over $10.00.

 

Secondary market sellers can pick up some items out of free boxes or get goodies for less than a buck that they can flip for 10 - 100 times what they have into it, but that is not consistant money as that merchandise can not be found consistantly.  I am really happy I picked up something out of a free box that I flipped in 5 days for $30, but I know that the odds of my finding that again are so low, they wouldn't pass under a snake belly.

 

I specialize in 40+ year old vintage clothing, which is appearing less and less in the garage sale/estate/rummage sale supply routes.  So I have to either face shrinking inventory aqusition in the next few years and with that less sales OR expand my knowledge base and find different things in different categories to resell.  The second is working out well for me.

 

One of the things I have been living off of is the fact that most resellers in my vintage category will often beat me to the good stuff and will pick the high dollar stuff/quick flip items out of a closet and leave the rest because they don't want to waste their time on stuff they can't sell for $50 or less.  So they bought 5 items and paid $100 for them and will price them all at least $50 each and will wait months until a collector is willing to pay that for one of them.  And they leave 400 items that I can pick up for the same $100 (because no one else is interested in doing the work) and sell at least half of them to people looking for clothing to wear or craft or costume for $10- 20 each and make my money back in a week with the rest being pure profit.

 

When you do the math - it looks like the high dollar flipper is better off with less work and storage and fees - but the last of my competitors who used that plan is getting a full time job and is getting out of online selling because they don't make any money, and I am still happily packing up my $5, 10, 20 and up items every day for a profit margin my competitors only dreamed of.

(*Bleep*)
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Re: Do The Math


@gopetersen wrote:

For years I was saying on the forum that sellers need to mark up at least 10 times and I was raked over the coals for that, but if you do the math AND if you count your time, that's the minimum you need to mark up to actually make money.

 


People disagreed with you because they can do it for a lot less than 10x. I spend between 3 and 4 hours per week on my eBay business; last year I banked nearly $10k in pre-tax profit, with an average sale that's only 3x my acquisition cost. Pull out your calculator and check my hourly wage.

 

If I followed your advice and only sold things that would pull 10x, I would have made about $500, because I don't find many things that will pull 10x. If you're going to repeatedly argue that I should run my business that way, and pass up that other $9,500 profit, you can expect to be repeatedly dismissed as being out of touch with reality.

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Re: Do The Math



The 10x math will never work for the retail sellers who are buying higher dollar merchandise wholesale to sell retail. 

 

Large online retailers add value because they use economies of scale to lower the cost to the buyer.

 

And because they can reach almost any consumer (think Amazon, Walmart, etc.) the days of being a middleman who simply tacks on an additional layer of profit are pretty much over.

 

That small town main street "middle man" business model may have worked last century, but in today's world a middle man must add real value in order to justify his profit. Simply "buying wholesale" and tacking on a profit is not enough.

 

And frankly, I do not see many eBay sellers who actually add much value - they are just adding to the buyer's cost, and their profit keeps getting squeezed as their selling costs rise and competition moves in.

 

Secondary market sellers can pick up some items out of free boxes or get goodies for less than a buck that they can flip for 10 - 100 times what they have into it, but that is not consistant money as that merchandise can not be found consistantly.

 

I disagree. It's just not as easy as placing an order with a wholealer.

 

I find that most small retailers that "buy wholesale" seem to be focused on listing, marketing, promoting and curating their stores. To me, that is a failing business model. Instead of spending 5% of their time buying and 95% of their time decorating their stores, IMHO small sellers should be spending 95% of their time with boots on the pavement searching out inventory that sells itself with little fussing about.

 

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Re: Do The Math

Actually your math is wrong. Included in eBays fee is the percentage off the total sale INCLUDING the shipping.

 

So the bottom line is actually even more miniscule.

 

Hope this helps

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Re: Do The Math


@comicsun wrote:

Actually your math is wrong. Included in eBays fee is the percentage off the total sale INCLUDING the shipping.

 

So the bottom line is actually even more miniscule.

 

Hope this helps


OP's example uses free shipping, so no shipping FVF.

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Re: Do The Math

I am pretty sure no one here has questioned your credibility.  We are simply attempting here to answer a question from another poster.  

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Re: Do The Math

One of the oft-mentioned maxims here is that sellers make their money on the front end of the sale; that is, sellers do not ever buy anything that they don't know can be sold for at least their required profit percentage, taking into consideration every single cost to the seller of selling on eBay, including all fees etc.  

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Re: Do The Math


@luckythewinner wrote:


The 10x math will never work for the retail sellers who are buying higher dollar merchandise wholesale to sell retail. 

 

Large online retailers add value because they use economies of scale to lower the cost to the buyer.

 

And because they can reach almost any consumer (think Amazon, Walmart, etc.) the days of being a middleman who simply tacks on an additional layer of profit are pretty much over.

 

That small town main street "middle man" business model may have worked last century, but in today's world a middle man must add real value in order to justify his profit. Simply "buying wholesale" and tacking on a profit is not enough.

 

And frankly, I do not see many eBay sellers who actually add much value - they are just adding to the buyer's cost, and their profit keeps getting squeezed as their selling costs rise and competition moves in.

 

Secondary market sellers can pick up some items out of free boxes or get goodies for less than a buck that they can flip for 10 - 100 times what they have into it, but that is not consistant money as that merchandise can not be found consistantly.

 

I disagree. It's just not as easy as placing an order with a wholealer.

 

I find that most small retailers that "buy wholesale" seem to be focused on listing, marketing, promoting and curating their stores. To me, that is a failing business model. Instead of spending 5% of their time buying and 95% of their time decorating their stores, IMHO small sellers should be spending 95% of their time with boots on the pavement searching out inventory that sells itself with little fussing about.

 


I find that most small retailers that "buy wholesale" seem to be focused on listing, marketing, promoting and curating their stores. To me, that is a failing business model.

 

While I agree with the underlined  - one of the things I have noticed is that most of the newer small ebay sellers that buy wholesale are more into listing, shipping and sitting back counting their money and dreaming of gettng bigger.  They look at the work of promotion as necessary but are counting on the fact that their new items already have a market and that they are on ebay which does promote - but is the only place with traffic (insert eyeroll).  The sellers you describe are the ones on Etsy.

 

That small town main street "middle man" business model may have worked last century, but in today's world a middle man must add real value in order to justify his profit. Simply "buying wholesale" and tacking on a profit is not enough.

 

I do not understand your phrase add real value, if you are just talking about free shipping or free returns, that is the cost of business that is passed onto the buyer, if you run your business properly, it does not add value to the buyer - it is just a ploy used to manipulate the buyer into thinking they are getting something better.  And to be honest, I am shocked at just how stupid buyers are today by falling for some of the tricks being thrown at them by marketing.

 

I disagree. It's just not as easy as placing an order with a wholealer.

 

My point was that sellers that depend on free stuff and cheap garage sale finds can not have the depth of duplicate merchandise as a wholesale reseller.  My $30 freebie was something I bought to craft (that would bring the value down to almost nothing) and have never seen it before and didn't know it existed....I will probably never find another again.  That was my point, if someone wanted two of them, they are out of luck.

 

But I probably have better variety of stock than the people who buy wholesale.  They have better control over what they have, but I have lower aquisition and higher profit, but very little duplication to depend on steady money from easy repeat business.

 

The real value I add is the old antique sellers creed - I find it, I clean it, I am giving it space for you to look at it.  In my field, I also add my knowledge and experience.  Because I get most of my goodies cheap, my prices are usually less than most sellers in my genre.  To me that is real value.  Very few pople actually realize tht internet selling is nothing more than mail order.

(*Bleep*)
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Re: Do The Math

I bought a used CD I wanted for $1.50 free shipping and the seller paid for tracking. Some sellers are really working hard, or too hard. Do the math always. I think I'll slip them a note to send it in a white envelope from now on. 😞 

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Re: Do The Math

Worked retail for about 11 years at a non-chain store.

 

I was privy to the acquisition costs of most of the stock for the section of the store that I generally worked in. I was involved in the pricing of the items.

 

Rule of thumb was a minimum markup of 250% to cover overhead.  Rare instances, where due to local competition/pricing, only a 100%. The guy doing the buying always tried to get things/brands not carried by other local stores.

 

Some things, that were purchased well, and could stand it, got a 1000% markup.

 

An  item obtained for $25 would not retail for $35.  $62.50 to $75 would be on the sticker. When they had the Christmas, or "mud season", 20% off sale, there was still a profit to be made.

 

My last "lot" purchase was made at about $0.72 per item. Minimum profit per item before I pay the tax man is $5.60.   18 sales from the lot so far at an average profit exceeding 600%

 

My time for sourcing, and any other of my time is not factored in. My time is low value. Actually doing eBay is probably benificial to my overall well being, as otherwise I might just be on the computer, or staring at the mindless TV programs. (sometimes I watch the Science channel, Discovery, or NatGeo, so not all a mindless waste)

 

Using a 40% markup is a business plan that could only survive with minimal overhead.  $25 item selling for $35 would be a seriously flawed plan for an eBay seller, but you have already proven that with your displayed math lesson.

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