Dispute closed in my favor, buyer initiated a chargeback

[willow-reed]

I sold a 130$ item, shipped to a freight forwarder (which I didn't know until this fiasco began). It was marked as delivered but the buyer sent me a message saying the freight forwarder didn't have it. I spent 2 weeks playing telephone tag with USPS, and the buyer and freight forwarder (via messages and emails). USPS swears up and down that the package was scanned and delivered because they have a whole system to working with this freight forwarder. It was a larger box, not some tiny bubble mailer that could get lost in a shuffle.

The buyer opened up a request asking for a refund. Since it was marked as delivered, my job as a seller is done and I'm not responsible for what happens at the freight forwarder, but it sounds like the freight forwarder doesn't want to help the buyer and is expecting me to just refund the buyer. If I was a business and could take the hit, sure, except I'm not. I'm someone on food stamps who can't afford to lose the 130 in addition to the item itself. I'm almost positive it got lost, stolen, or damaged at the freight forwarder when they tried to repackage it as these companies tend to do- given the size of the box.

When I called eBay, the rep told me without hesitation that since it was marked as delivered, the case would be closed in my favor. Apparently the buyer also tried to appeal and was denied again.

Recently, I got another email from eBay informing me that a payment dispute has been opened by the buyers financial institution. All threads I can find on this kind of case mention PayPal, but PP isn't involved in this case so I think the buyers CC company went straight to eBay. What are my chances of winning this? If I lose, will eBay comp the money if I call support about it?

Also I've read that according to seller protection, trying to initiate a chargeback after a dispute and appeal has been closed will get the buyer banned and their info blacklisted. Is this true?

Ultimately I don't know the buyers financial situation though spending 130 on electronics means they're probably not struggling, but I also feel bad that they lost out too even if it's the freight forwarders fault. I don't want them to be out the 130 but likewise it's something I can't afford to lose.

[donsdetour]

Send all info on the sale including tracking showing item delivered:

You still may lose but its worth a try...

[katzrul15]

Respond to the CC chargeback the only way you can, with the tracking showing delivered.

We just won ours, but only as e-Bay made a courtesy refund to the Buyer.  E-Bay has changed their positon on freight forwarders, but hopefully will protect you. 

It can take 30 days or so.  Hopefully, it will move faster.  I know the stress and anxiety you have with this - fresh off mine recently.

Received excellent advice here on the boards from so many.  Good luck!!

[bigdeals.etc]

You are correct with exception to if the buyer will be banned. I don't think anyone knows this as ebay doesn't publicly release their absolute banning criteria.

Payment disputes (in your case) will play out just like your ebay cases that the buyer filed when you challenge it. But you'll have to fight it differently. They ask you for 1 screenshot as your defense, right? You need to be crafty and make a collage of images into that one screenshot file. Include your order details screenshot showing the buyer's name/address/item/price and most of all tracking number. Next make sure the collage includes anywhere that shows the tracking status, whether it be from ebay screenshots or USPS website screenshots (or both). Make sure the status shows delivered and the date.

The final thing you'll probably want to do in your collage is leave a blank area for you to type some testimony. Don't make this too lengthy. Just something along the lines of "Item was shipped with tracking number and is confirmed delivered by USPS."

That should be enough for you to win the payment dispute. Just be aware that the review process can take a LOOOOOONG time with these financial institutions. Like months. I don't need to wish you good luck. This is a slam dunk case for you.

[katzrul15]

They have change the dispute - there is no box to enter anything now but the tracking and you select your picture of the item.  Nothing more to defend a CC chargeback.  It is maddening.

[ittybitnot]

Recently, I got another email from eBay informing me that a payment dispute has been opened by the buyers financial institution. 

@willow-reed 

So long as the "payment dispute" was for 'item not received' you should be good to go EVENTUALLY.  For some reason, even if seller protection is extended to you and you are in Managed Payments the system makes you WAIT until an outcome is received even though it should not make a difference.

 If a buyer files a payment dispute and the transaction is eligible for protection, we'll cover the amount of the dispute, and waive the fee, if the following is true for the same transaction prior to the payment dispute being received:

When a buyer reports that they haven't received their item

An eBay Money Back Guarantee case was found in your favor, or

You refunded your buyer, or

After the payment dispute was received, you provided proof of delivery that included all of the following:

Tracking number provided by the shipping company (uploaded by the date indicated in the payment dispute notification)

A delivery status of "delivered"

Date of delivery

Recipient's address, matching the address displayed on the order (including the city, county, zip code or international equivalent)

Proof of signature confirmation if an order has a total cost (including shipping and taxes) of $750 or more, uploaded as an image while contesting the payment dispute. Or;

If the subsequent claim was for 'item didn't match the description'  or 'empty box' you are going to lose.  The buyer will be refunded from your proceeds and a return of anything will not be required.  There is a possibility that eBay will still try the old "it is the credit card company and nothing we can do"  routine on you.  Come back here if it should happen. 

Good luck. 

You can see the whole policy here: 

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/seller-protections?id=4345&st=3&pos=1&query=Sell...

[bigdeals.etc]

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@katzrul15 wrote:

They have change the dispute - there is no box to enter anything now but the tracking and you select your picture of the item.  Nothing more to defend a CC chargeback.  It is maddening.

---

There was never a box (text field) to enter anything when I got my numerous payment disputes... only the option was to upload a photo/screenshot. My last payment dispute was on 4/30.

So this has changed since then? In regards to your "you select your picture of the item", you're stuck to choose a photo among a pre-selected group of photos in your listing? Or can you choose any photo you want (even in your computer)? If it's the latter, then it sounds just like what I mentioned about uploading your photo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this "new" system sounds just like the setup I went thru in addition to having a field to enter your tracking number.

[monster-deals]

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@willow-reed wrote:

What are my chances of winning this?

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With tracking showing delivery? About 99.98%

[ittybitnot]

There was never a box (text field) to enter anything when I got my numerous payment disputes..

@bigdeals.etc 

The format displayed to a seller in a Managed Payments transaction dispute is dependent upon the type/reason for the dispute.  

For an INR or "doesn't recognize the charge"  you get a box (not a picture) to enter the tracking number.  If the item was $750 or more, you are suppose to  upload a screen shot of the the signature confirmation, but there has never been a place to do so. 

The one's that you get "just the picture" as your evidence are for Item not as Described,  Unathorized Transaction (not to be confused with the old PayPal unauthorized use), and Credit not Processed. 

[katzrul15]

You cannot do the collage of pictures you are talking about.  Now, it shows you several of you recent transactions and it has 1 picture already from the transaction.  You select the "transaction" you want - the picture is pre-filled and it auto fills the tracking.  You cannot enter anything info at all.

[certifiedcitynet]

An Ebay buyer can dispute a credit card purchase through the card's issuer even if Ebay has a closed a dispute in the seller's favor. 

Be sure to dispute the buyer's credit card dispute in the time window dictated by federal law. If you upheld your part of the transaction by shipping to the address on file with Ebay but the card issuer still rules in the customer's favor, your next step will be to contact (via certified mail, return receipt requested) the general or chief counsel of the card issuer with a threat to sue the issuer and its CEO for incidental, consequential, and punitive damages. If they are local, you can actually sue them in small claims court and would likely win if the facts are as you have stated. 

You can also threaten to contact a major media reporter who has already reported about Ebay fraud (credit card companies hate bad publicity). And threaten to have the lawsuit certified as a class action in state and/or federal court. But before you threaten anyone, ask an attorney whether or not such threats would constitute extortion under your state's laws. If so, you can still make general threats of litigation. 

You need not feel bad for the buyer because he assumed the risk of loss by using a freight forwarding service. And you should certainly not let his card issuer defraud you. 

[dbfolks166mt]

      Everyone has provided sufficient advise with regards to the refund. For future consideration, I am not sure where the buyer is located, but you may want to consider blocking certain countries from being able to purchase or bid on your items. There are a number of foreign countries where postal theft is rampant. 

     While I sell internationally, quite a bit actually, I have a lot of countries that I will not sell to. For those that I do I utilize the eBay Global Shipping Center. The center slows the delivery process down a bit but my job as a seller is to get the shipment to the GSC and they handle it from there. This seems to have discouraged a number of potential scams and the center, so far, has worked flawlessly. 

[tdumonde2014]

There's no way to block foreign buyers if they have a US shipping address.

[lagarto_electronico]

"...sounds like the freight forwarder doesn't want to help the buyer...."

This isn't the buyer's first rodeo. Get ready to be taken for a ride and lose your money.

People make a career on eBay out of this scam. They know every loophole.

[wastingtime101]

What type of chargeback was filed, @willow-reed? What does it say is the reason for the dispute?