Disappointed in eBay

[lyndasprinh]

Is anyone else disappointed in eBay lately, the fees are higher, charging you % of postage too, I was just told by an agent that eBay is structured to favor the buyer, that was disappointing, also found out that with international sales if you have a dispute and eBay go in favor of buyer you can’t even send them a return label through eBay now. This used to be my number one selling site but not any more, I favor sites that give  the buyer a few days to inspect the item  and return if necessary in that time period, after which the sale is final,I don’t like that with eBay people can buy, keep it a few months and then decide to return it. Would like to hear other sellers opinions

[dbfolks166mt]

Yes, that was my point.  No matter who says or submits what, the CCC decides and it decides in the cardholder's favour about 99.99999% of the time, automatically.

The credit card companies do not want to spend any money on investigation or lose any customers of their own, so they smile and nod and okay every chargeback and let the devil take the hindmost -- the hindmost being honest sellers and, ultimately, honest buyers who must pay more for everything to cover the sellers' losses.

     Actually the CC companies do care and the monitor both cardholder chargebacks as well as merchant chargebacks. The CC companies are as concerned about fraud and chargebacks as the sellers are. Remember the CC companies make their money from two sources. The first is the fee they charge the merchant for the transaction usually 2-3% of the total transaction. That pales in comparison to the interest they charge the card holder on their unpaid balance. There is a percentage of card holders that the CC companies refer to as dead beats. Those are the card holders that pay off their cards every month and limit the CC company's revenue to what they obtain from the sale. 

     A merchant that exceeds a CC companies threshold percentage in chargebacks may loose their ability to accept the CC companies card as a form of payment. I can't imagine the impact to eBay if they were to loose their ability to accept Master Card and/or Visa as a payment method. 

     CC companies also monitor the chargeback history of the cardholder and if there is a pattern of abuse they may investigate or terminate the card holders account. 

     The following article contains some good information on what the CC companies are doing to try and reduce the chargeback problem. They are somewhat constrained by the consumer protection laws but they can collaborate with merchants on ways to reduce the chargeback problem and increase the merchants capability to win chargeback cases. 

https://midigator.com/chargeback-report-statistics/ 

[dbfolks166mt]

Absolutely.  And Ebay isn't failing us anymore in this arena than PayPal did.  It is just a very difficult subject and is not something that fairness applies very often.

Still waiting to see the data that supports that. 

However with that said, it is actually illegal what the CCCs are doing.  If challenged in a court of law, the justice system will NOT support the buyer getting to keep the item and the money too.  So this little fact is what keeps hanging up in my throat on this issue.  There just seems there should be more we can do to stop the CCCs from doing this.

     The Fair Credit Billing Act of 1974, or FCBA, is a federal law designed to protect consumers from unfair credit billing practices and build consumer confidence in then-new forms of credit in the process. The act serves as the legal basis for the chargeback process.

     However, The Fair Credit Billing Act doesn’t directly govern chargeback procedures; it only provides a mandate for them. Most card networks and issuers actually provide consumer fraud protections stronger than those required under the law. This can seem like an ideal setup, but the law leaves issuers and card networks to iron out the details, leading to unforeseen complications. 

     You are probably correct that a buyer both winning a chargeback and keeping the merchandise would not stand up in a court of law. Remember however that eBay is the merchant of record in the transaction and would have to be the one to take the CC company to court which I don't see happening or an individual seller would have to take eBay to court which I also don't see happening unless it comes under some type of  class action lawsuit. Several class action law suits have been filed against eBay and they have lost a number of them but it take years, lots of $ and the only real winners are the lawyers. 

I personally have only filed a Chargeback once and it was for an Ebay purchase.  At that time the chargeback was done through my Discover card.  They were wonderful in helping me and I finally got the attention of the seller when they snatched the money for my order back from them [it was a high price order].  The seller tried fighting the chargeback, but my CCC was excellent. 

Finally the seller sent a repair person out and fixed the item I purchased.  I was happy.  Discover notified me that if I wanted to keep the item they would go ahead and close the Chargeback.  Or I could still return the item if I wasn't happy, but they would not allow me to do both.  I was not allowed to keep the item and get the refund.  Which of course is totally fair and I had Discover release the money to the seller.

This is how a Chargeback should be handled IMHO.

[deltilogical]

"eBay only allows a buyer 30 days from purchase to dispute - not received or not described"

This isn't  correct, the exact language for the date for a buyer to complain is:

Earliest:

Once the estimated or actual delivery/collection date has passed
Latest:

30 calendar days after the estimated or actual delivery/collection date has passed

[mam98031]

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@lyndasprinh wrote:

Firstly I have been lucky enough to have satisfied customers for the past 18 years and this is the first time I have had an international dispute, before the dispute I had the option of accepting the return and downloading the return label, an option that is not available once you dispute the return, I would imagine if you can just download a return label for returns before a case is open, you should be able to after too. 

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Absolutely on a US delivery address.  But not when it is an international sale.  You simply can't purchase a return label in the US for the country the buyer is shipping from.

[mam98031]

"Still waiting to see the data that supports that. "

I have none to share.  It doesn't matter to me whether you believe me or not.

"Remember however that eBay is the merchant of record in the transaction and would have to be the one to take the CC company to court"  Maybe yes, maybe no.  Ebay has to be the MOR because they are the money processor, however they are NOT the SOR [seller of record].  It was the same in PayPal.  The money processor has to be the MOR or they can't negotiate / process payments.

[dbfolks166mt]

"Still waiting to see the data that supports that. "

I have none to share.  It doesn't matter to me whether you believe me or not.  I believe what can be substantiated and based on what is available from CC companies and merchants the chargeback problem has exploded in the last 4-5 years and it is NOT just a problem for eBay but all merchants and financial processors. 

"Remember however that eBay is the merchant of record in the transaction and would have to be the one to take the CC company to court"  Maybe yes, maybe no.  Ebay has to be the MOR because they are the money processor, however they are NOT the SOR [seller of record].  It was the same in PayPal.  The money processor has to be the MOR or they can't negotiate / process payments.

Fully aware of that. But the bottom line is few single sellers have the resources to do battle with a CC company. EBay has the resources but they simply don't want to ruffle any feathers and have no incentive to do so. 

[mam98031]

Great, you answered your own question. And it appears you know realize your earlier statement was inaccurate.  "PayPal usually had sellers covered on chargebacks, as long as the seller did everything correctly. Adyen doesn't even try. That seems to be one of the biggest differences between Managed Payments and PayPal."

[dbfolks166mt]

Great, you answered your own question. And it appears you know realize your earlier statement was inaccurate.  "PayPal usually had sellers covered on chargebacks, as long as the seller did everything correctly. Adyen doesn't even try. That seems to be one of the biggest differences between Managed Payments and PayPal."

Once again just your opinion there was nothing inaccurate about my previous statement. I, unlike some people, will actually admit when I have posted incorrect or inaccurate information and generally have data or links to back up the statement. 

[johnrj1226]

Add to your  list -

1.  eBay used to charge* for every listing when I joined back in 2008 - now  they extend 250 free listing every month without a store subscription.   *charge  was not a fixed rate it escalated  based on the  selling price of the item.

2.  Used to pay for  every picture over 1 up to 12.  Now all 12  are free

3.  And most recently eBay takes care of the sales tax distribution on sales in those states that have a sales tax - only 5 states  don't.  Don't know  an eBay seller that would want to be responsible for doing that.

[mam98031]

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@dbfolks166mt wrote:

Great, you answered your own question. And it appears you know realize your earlier statement was inaccurate.  "PayPal usually had sellers covered on chargebacks, as long as the seller did everything correctly. Adyen doesn't even try. That seems to be one of the biggest differences between Managed Payments and PayPal."

Once again just your opinion there was nothing inaccurate about my previous statement. I, unlike some people, will actually admit when I have posted incorrect or inaccurate information and generally have data or links to back up the statement. 

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This is simply an inaccurate statement.  I hope this helps.

https://www.paypal.com/us/brc/article/seller-protection#:~:text=What%20is%20the%20PayPal%20Seller,yo....

What PayPal Seller Protection doesn’t cover.
Seller Protection doesn’t cover buyer claims for items received that are ‘Significantly Not As Described (SNAD)’; in other words, what the buyer received doesn’t match what they ordered. For example: Say the buyer ordered a pink scarf but received a green one instead. But you can reduce SNAD complaints by:

• Providing detailed and accurate descriptions of the items you are selling.
• Communicating well with your buyers.
• Answering any questions about the item(s) quickly.
• Being open to resolving issues as they arise (refunds, returns, and exchanges) to prevent a formal complaint.

https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/security/seller-protection

What isn’t covered by Seller Protection?

Most PayPal transactions are covered as long as they follow these requirements. However, there are instances where Seller Protection doesn’t apply:

• Claims, chargebacks, or reversals filed because the item is significantly different from how it was described (e.g. you described an item as “new,” but sent a used one).
• It involves an item that PayPal determines, in its sole discretion, is a counterfeit item.
• It involves an item that you deliver in person, including in connection with a payment made in your physical store, unless the buyer paid for the transaction in person by using a PayPal goods and services QR code.
• It involves sales that are not processed either through a buyer’s PayPal account or a PayPal guest checkout transaction.
• It involves items equivalent to cash including gift cards.
• It involves a donation.
• It relates to the purchase of a financial product or investment of any kind.
• It involves a payment sent using PayPal’s friends and family functionality.
• It involves a payment made using PayPal Payouts and Mass Pay.
• The item is a vehicle, including, but not limited to a motor vehicle, motorcycle, recreational vehicle, aircraft or boat.
• Payments made in respect of gold (whether in physical form or in exchange-traded form).

These eligibility requirements for coverage can also be found in the Seller Protection section of our User Agreement

[mam98031]

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@johnrj1226 wrote:

Add to your  list -

1.  eBay used to charge* for every listing when I joined back in 2008 - now  they extend 250 free listing every month without a store subscription.   *charge  was not a fixed rate it escalated  based on the  selling price of the item.

2.  Used to pay for  every picture over 1 up to 12.  Now all 12  are free

3.  And most recently eBay takes care of the sales tax distribution on sales in those states that have a sales tax - only 5 states  don't.  Don't know  an eBay seller that would want to be responsible for doing that.

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It isn't an either OR situation.  Marketplaces are mandated by law to collect and remit sales tax to most of the states.  That is not true for most casual and small sellers.

[arnysandra]

You are so right. I have been on Ebay since 1998 .. the last year or so not only does Ebay allow buyers to cheat, and they do as it has happened to me where  I sold a record in excellent condition and the buyer claimed it was scratched and warped. I did manage to get it back and it was as I had originally described it... Dont understand what makes a buyer do that.. Anyway resold and the next buyer gave me great feedback and was happy. But I can understand ebay's position as they only know what the buyer and the seller tells them. They can't see the product. What bothers me is that the exposure small sellers like me get makes making a sale almost impossible. and there is always some fool out there that believes that starting bidding in an auction for say 99 cents will get them lots of bids. Instead they get one bid for 99 cents and now any other item like it others are selling now sell for less because 99 cents has become the standard.

Unfortuanately there are not many ways to get the right price for what you are selling unless you own the venue ... such as a store, or if you sell out of your garage. I have reverted to doing just that because I used to spend do much time listing and then not getting enough sales to pay for my time.

Wish there was a cure for this. probably it will only be if Ebay sellers stop selling in droves and ebay decides to revise their policies. But it may be that even that may not work because times have changed and people no longer are willing to pay for quality.

Take Care

Arnie Ballonoff dba arnysandra

[kh-laura]

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.